Geoff: Ever think of charging to access the Other Forum?
04-10-02 | 02:11 AM
#1
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Special Edition
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,938
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Corvallis, Oregon, USA
Geoff: Ever think of charging to access the Other Forum?
Hello, all. I'm sure this post may piss off a lot of people, but here goes anyhow.
Another forum that I read on a daily basis is the one over at www.**************.com. I'll admit, this site is not everyone's cup of tea, but I find the forums there to be highly entertaining. Much more so than what is displayed on the front page. In fact, the humor on the front page is usually pretty lame.
Several months ago, Something Awful started charging to access their forums. Of course, people bitched to no end.
So, today the owner posts this:
This made me think... hey, the other forum is pretty damn good and has a bunch of great regulars. Why not make us chip in a bit to help Geoff out?
What does everyone think about charging for access? I believe he said at our last Otter meet that it would never happen, but I was curious to learn more about his opinion and the other people on the board. How about it?
Another forum that I read on a daily basis is the one over at www.**************.com. I'll admit, this site is not everyone's cup of tea, but I find the forums there to be highly entertaining. Much more so than what is displayed on the front page. In fact, the humor on the front page is usually pretty lame.
Several months ago, Something Awful started charging to access their forums. Of course, people bitched to no end.
So, today the owner posts this:
Now I don't want to sound like I'm tooting my own horn here (or tooting anybody else's horn for that matter), but as the person who has been running this website for about three years now, I believe charging $9.95 for a forum account was the best idea I've ever had and has had the most positive result on SA ever.
Let's take a look at the pros and cons of charging money for a forum account:
PROS:
* Keeps trolls out (since people who want to troll forums won't want to spend $9.95 per account)
* Keeps spammers / flooders out (same reason as above)
* Generates a smaller, closer, tight-knit community since we don't have Anonymous Joes flowing in and out every minute
* Helps pay for bandwidth bills
CONS:
* Costs $9.95
Now as far as I can tell, the only CON isn't really a CON because the people who aren't willing to pay for an account are mostly the people who would use their account irresponsibly. People only act on their best behaviour when something of theirs is at stake, in this case their money. If somebody put $9.95 into an account, they're going to want to abide by the rules and not lose their money. This causes the forums to pretty much moderate themselves, since people now have a vested interest to not lose their money.
Initially people had a hard time getting adjusted to the idea of paying money for a service. They would send me emails bitching to me and complaining about how other forums are free and the SA forums weren't worth any money. I would reply to them with a message saying something along the lines of "fine, go post there then." And you know what? All those free forums really really suck.
I don't want to give you guys a big head about all this, but the SA Forums are really the only forums on the Internet that I can bear to visit (repeatedly at that). I don't have to worry about trolls, spammers, flooders, people registering multiple accounts to annoy people, 1d10t sKr1pT k1dd1eZ, or the general stupidity of anonymous posting shithead morons that we've seen on every other public forum out there. Since these forums are private, the citizens of the forum are all on the same page and know / abide by the community rules and proper behaviour. I can't recall the last time I saw anybody posting just "LOL" as a reply, somebody wRiTiNg LiKe ThIs, or a person that has a Counter-Strike image in their sig file.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the combination of the pay-to-play requirement and you guys, the people who have actually paid for accounts, have undoubtedly made the SA Forums the best and most troll-free / idiot-free / spam-free forums currently on the Internet. I think that we've got a winning combo here and I'm glad all you guys are here to make the forums what they currently are, a really great community.
So I've got that going for me, which is good.
Let's take a look at the pros and cons of charging money for a forum account:
PROS:
* Keeps trolls out (since people who want to troll forums won't want to spend $9.95 per account)
* Keeps spammers / flooders out (same reason as above)
* Generates a smaller, closer, tight-knit community since we don't have Anonymous Joes flowing in and out every minute
* Helps pay for bandwidth bills
CONS:
* Costs $9.95
Now as far as I can tell, the only CON isn't really a CON because the people who aren't willing to pay for an account are mostly the people who would use their account irresponsibly. People only act on their best behaviour when something of theirs is at stake, in this case their money. If somebody put $9.95 into an account, they're going to want to abide by the rules and not lose their money. This causes the forums to pretty much moderate themselves, since people now have a vested interest to not lose their money.
Initially people had a hard time getting adjusted to the idea of paying money for a service. They would send me emails bitching to me and complaining about how other forums are free and the SA forums weren't worth any money. I would reply to them with a message saying something along the lines of "fine, go post there then." And you know what? All those free forums really really suck.
I don't want to give you guys a big head about all this, but the SA Forums are really the only forums on the Internet that I can bear to visit (repeatedly at that). I don't have to worry about trolls, spammers, flooders, people registering multiple accounts to annoy people, 1d10t sKr1pT k1dd1eZ, or the general stupidity of anonymous posting shithead morons that we've seen on every other public forum out there. Since these forums are private, the citizens of the forum are all on the same page and know / abide by the community rules and proper behaviour. I can't recall the last time I saw anybody posting just "LOL" as a reply, somebody wRiTiNg LiKe ThIs, or a person that has a Counter-Strike image in their sig file.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the combination of the pay-to-play requirement and you guys, the people who have actually paid for accounts, have undoubtedly made the SA Forums the best and most troll-free / idiot-free / spam-free forums currently on the Internet. I think that we've got a winning combo here and I'm glad all you guys are here to make the forums what they currently are, a really great community.
So I've got that going for me, which is good.
What does everyone think about charging for access? I believe he said at our last Otter meet that it would never happen, but I was curious to learn more about his opinion and the other people on the board. How about it?
04-10-02 | 03:29 AM
#2
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 6,658
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Texas
I just wanted to cut and paste a part of that post that I really envy: I can't recall the last time I saw anybody posting just "LOL" as a reply...
What about:
LOL
LOL LOL
LOL LOL LOL
LOL LOL LOL LOL
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Except imagine them as rolling smilies. That is all I have to say about that.
What about:
LOL
LOL LOL
LOL LOL LOL
LOL LOL LOL LOL
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Except imagine them as rolling smilies. That is all I have to say about that.
04-10-02 | 03:55 AM
#3
Registered
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Marblehead, MA
Thanks for posting this. I was not aware that Something Awful had gone to a subscription model.
You did hear me correctly at the Portland Meet that I am not really in favor of a pay for membership system. I still believe that we can do other things to help pay for the server and bandwith besides just charging a fee.
The admin of SA does make a point about the effect of paying for membership and it's something to think about. Also I haddn't thought about an OTHER specific membership program. Something to consider.....
My hope however is that we can continue to support the forum through:
- Advertising. If even 1 of the larger studios were to be a regular advertiser it would be enough
- Member Support - There's a thread in the Other forum with a number of ways Members can support the site without reaching in their wallets
- Products - we're working on stuff that DVD Talkers could buy and hopefully would want to buy which would support the site.
I DO very much appreacite all the members who are looking out for our survival. Running a .com is a lot harder now than it was when we started, but I am confident that with the support of our members we'll be ok.
You did hear me correctly at the Portland Meet that I am not really in favor of a pay for membership system. I still believe that we can do other things to help pay for the server and bandwith besides just charging a fee.
The admin of SA does make a point about the effect of paying for membership and it's something to think about. Also I haddn't thought about an OTHER specific membership program. Something to consider.....
My hope however is that we can continue to support the forum through:
- Advertising. If even 1 of the larger studios were to be a regular advertiser it would be enough
- Member Support - There's a thread in the Other forum with a number of ways Members can support the site without reaching in their wallets
- Products - we're working on stuff that DVD Talkers could buy and hopefully would want to buy which would support the site.
I DO very much appreacite all the members who are looking out for our survival. Running a .com is a lot harder now than it was when we started, but I am confident that with the support of our members we'll be ok.
04-10-02 | 05:14 AM
#4
Uber Member
I agree that charging would put the trolling and spamming to an almost complete stop, but as it stands now, trolls and spammers tend, for the most part, to hit once and then disappear. So as long as the mods are around on a fairly regular basis, not really that big a problem.
The biggest negative to me, however, would be the likely dramatic decrease in new people signing up. We didn't start out with the really great core group of regular posters almost every forum here has. They signed up over time. There's no telling how many would never have signed up if they were put off by a pay to enroll system.
I think the current members of the forum are really great people, but I still want the forum to get fresh blood on a regular basis.
I'd pay for access in a heartbeat, but then, I already know it's worth it.
-David
The biggest negative to me, however, would be the likely dramatic decrease in new people signing up. We didn't start out with the really great core group of regular posters almost every forum here has. They signed up over time. There's no telling how many would never have signed up if they were put off by a pay to enroll system.
I think the current members of the forum are really great people, but I still want the forum to get fresh blood on a regular basis.
I'd pay for access in a heartbeat, but then, I already know it's worth it.
-David
04-10-02 | 10:29 AM
#5
DVD Talk God
i agree with blade
in my opinion.. if there ever is a fee.. it should be an optional fee for some sort of premium service..
maybe by paying the fee, your able to use some features that others cant use.. or your able to enter contests that others cant, etc..
in my opinion.. if there ever is a fee.. it should be an optional fee for some sort of premium service..
maybe by paying the fee, your able to use some features that others cant use.. or your able to enter contests that others cant, etc..
04-10-02 | 10:33 AM
#6
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
In addition, I think if the site were truly in trouble, there would be many, many folks that would be willing to help. I agree with Blade, that it takes a combination of new blood, vets, and mods in order to make the forums what they are today.
04-10-02 | 10:47 AM
#7
Moderator Emeritus
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 8,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by twikoff
i agree with blade
in my opinion.. if there ever is a fee.. it should be an optional fee for some sort of premium service..
maybe by paying the fee, your able to use some features that others cant use.. or your able to enter contests that others cant, etc..
i agree with blade
in my opinion.. if there ever is a fee.. it should be an optional fee for some sort of premium service..
maybe by paying the fee, your able to use some features that others cant use.. or your able to enter contests that others cant, etc..
Oooh, how about the "Sponsor a Forum" plan? For an annual payment of $1000, you get your name on a forum. We could have the "Twikoff Sports Forum". Another plan could be a "Sponsor a Post" plan. You really like someone's post, for a small fee the text "Sponsored by YourNameHere" could be added to the bottom of the post. The "Pay for Sticky" plan where a post is stickied for an amount of time based on a fee schedule.
I read another board that's been around for like 2 months, and someone already has 6000 posts, many of them single smiley posts. I brought up the idea that people should be charged a penny per post. You have to buy some sort of posting credit up front, and a penny gets subtracted each time you post.
The idea about being able to enter special contests sounds good. I'm guessing other features would be like private messaging and avatars.
I haven't started paying for any website I visit yet. If anandtech totally stops allowing access unless you pay, I may bite the bullet. I have started clicking more ads here.
04-10-02 | 10:58 AM
#8
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
This might be tricky from a legal and technical standpoint, but a raffle might be an idea to raise some cash for the forum, I am sure buying $1/ticket raffle for DVDs (ideally new releases or if Geoff has any OOPs/box sets/Criterions/signed DVDs, etc he has or can get a hold of) might interest some people.
04-10-02 | 01:59 PM
#10
DVD Talk God
Originally posted by Alyoshka
I'll bet that if you charged 10 bucks to allow ones post count to be shown on the posts then you'd make a killing from many otters.
I'll bet that if you charged 10 bucks to allow ones post count to be shown on the posts then you'd make a killing from many otters.
04-10-02 | 02:15 PM
#11
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Special Edition
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,938
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Corvallis, Oregon, USA
Perhaps a subscription model based on that of ARStechnica? There anyone can read the Lounge (very similar to our Other forum) but to post there requires you to be a subscriber.
Slashdot has also recently switch to a subscription service where advertisements are greatly reduced if you subscribe.
Slashdot has also recently switch to a subscription service where advertisements are greatly reduced if you subscribe.
04-10-02 | 03:20 PM
#13
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by ratguy
And one more idea....
I'm sure everyone would chip in $10 if they had access to a webcam in Geoff's bedroom.
And one more idea....
I'm sure everyone would chip in $10 if they had access to a webcam in Geoff's bedroom.
(not a reference to the prettier half of the Ks)
04-10-02 | 07:12 PM
#14
DVD Talk Hero
i first joined DVDTalk for the DVD Bargains and Other Bargains forums...i did this cuz i'm cheap. i'm sure there are a bunch of other Others who are cheap as well and we probably wouldnt pay for service....but i'll click a ton of ads 
04-10-02 | 07:20 PM
#15
Registered
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Marblehead, MA
Some good points brought up in this thread. Thanks for all your comments.
The best idea I've heard so far is get someone to pay for the naming rights of a sports forum. Afterall every stadium is now some company name.
I should say: We'll add the sports forum if someone can help get someone to bid on the name. Heck, we could even ebay the rights.... Starting bid??
I can See it Now- The --- Corp Sports Talk Forum
- G
The best idea I've heard so far is get someone to pay for the naming rights of a sports forum. Afterall every stadium is now some company name.
I should say: We'll add the sports forum if someone can help get someone to bid on the name. Heck, we could even ebay the rights.... Starting bid??
I can See it Now- The --- Corp Sports Talk Forum
- G
04-10-02 | 07:28 PM
#16
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
04-10-02 | 07:39 PM
#17
DVD Talk Legend
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 17,816
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Work. Or commuting. Certainly not at home.
Originally posted by gkleinman
Some good points brought up in this thread. Thanks for all your comments.
The best idea I've heard so far is get someone to pay for the naming rights of a sports forum. Afterall every stadium is now some company name.
I should say: We'll add the sports forum if someone can help get someone to bid on the name. Heck, we could even ebay the rights.... Starting bid??
I can See it Now- The --- Corp Sports Talk Forum
- G
Some good points brought up in this thread. Thanks for all your comments.
The best idea I've heard so far is get someone to pay for the naming rights of a sports forum. Afterall every stadium is now some company name.
I should say: We'll add the sports forum if someone can help get someone to bid on the name. Heck, we could even ebay the rights.... Starting bid??
I can See it Now- The --- Corp Sports Talk Forum
- G
Considering that he'd make up about 60% of that forum's posts.
04-10-02 | 07:47 PM
#18
DVD Talk God
Originally posted by WildcatLH
I thought it was settled that any sports forum has to be named after twikoff!
I thought it was settled that any sports forum has to be named after twikoff!
Considering that he'd make up about 60% of that forum's posts.
Im thinking about having a bake sale to raise money for corporate sponsership of twikoffs sports forum
04-10-02 | 08:13 PM
#19
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally posted by twikoff
Im thinking about having a bake sale to raise money for corporate sponsership of twikoffs sports forum [/B]
Im thinking about having a bake sale to raise money for corporate sponsership of twikoffs sports forum
[/B]
Wait a minute...that's probably not a good idea.
04-10-02 | 08:35 PM
#20
DVD Talk God
Originally posted by Three Day Delay
I think I'll do a kissing booth.
Wait a minute...that's probably not a good idea.
I think I'll do a kissing booth.
Wait a minute...that's probably not a good idea.
04-10-02 | 09:34 PM
#21
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Special Edition
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,938
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Corvallis, Oregon, USA
04-11-02 | 05:08 AM
#22
DVD Talk Legend
I hear Enron might be looking for a new sports related sponsorship
I would be willing to pay some money on an annual or monthly basis.
maybe you could give special titles to sponsors like DvdTalk Sponsor*
not a bad idea to show those post counts
maybe you could sell some pads also
Maybe allow special icons for sponsors under your name. maybe have a private forum just for them. we could call it Private Forum or Sponsors Forum * everyone could see the forum only no one but sponsors could enter it
*sorry all i could think of at the time
I would be willing to pay some money on an annual or monthly basis.
maybe you could give special titles to sponsors like DvdTalk Sponsor*
not a bad idea to show those post counts
maybe you could sell some pads also
Maybe allow special icons for sponsors under your name. maybe have a private forum just for them. we could call it Private Forum or Sponsors Forum * everyone could see the forum only no one but sponsors could enter it
*sorry all i could think of at the time
04-11-02 | 09:01 AM
#23
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
What about a private forum for paying members? It could have deals that only paying members could take a part of. Discounts from "partners" for dvds and home theater equipment. Several e retailers have similiar paying forums. Some i've seen have partnerships with places like Bettercables.com and one-call.com.
04-11-02 | 09:23 AM
#24
Mod Emeritus
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 19,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Gone to the islands - 'til we meet again.
Originally posted by gcribbs
I would be willing to pay some money on an annual or monthly basis.
maybe you could give special titles to sponsors like DvdTalk Sponsor*
...
Maybe allow special icons for sponsors under your name
I would be willing to pay some money on an annual or monthly basis.
maybe you could give special titles to sponsors like DvdTalk Sponsor*
...
Maybe allow special icons for sponsors under your name
I don't know about doing a private forum but I do like the idea of either a single special title, user selected titles, or icons for those who donate.
04-11-02 | 09:59 AM
#25
I said it in the other thread on this topic: if you give long-term special perks to those who pay money, you open yourself up to a world of hurt.
A raffle idea would be great, because the gains are short-term. But if you divide the forum into paying and non-paying members, over time, it will create rifts and hurt the forum.
Also, things change when you are paying for a service. DVDTalk is free, and I accept it as such. Geoff's decisions are his own, because it's his board. If he started charging me money to participate, I don't know how I'd feel. I guess I'm one of those people who would rather donate $100 than be required to pay $10.
Charging for special access sounds great in theory, because it's easy to think "who wouldn't pay such a small amount for such a great service." But in practice, things don't always work out that way.
das
A raffle idea would be great, because the gains are short-term. But if you divide the forum into paying and non-paying members, over time, it will create rifts and hurt the forum.
Also, things change when you are paying for a service. DVDTalk is free, and I accept it as such. Geoff's decisions are his own, because it's his board. If he started charging me money to participate, I don't know how I'd feel. I guess I'm one of those people who would rather donate $100 than be required to pay $10.
Charging for special access sounds great in theory, because it's easy to think "who wouldn't pay such a small amount for such a great service." But in practice, things don't always work out that way.
das