I would suspect that most people that come to DVD Talk are looking for info on DVD's, and don't stumble into Other for quite some time, if at all.

i agree with this. I've posted for a while and am a regular and i "know" most of the regulars. If a new person comes in, I welcome them and have no problem. However, I have noticed there are some "regulars" who dont like it when new members joke around and stuff. Well anyone who reads more than one thread in the Other Forum realizes most of the stuff going on in there is for fun and is about joking around. When a newbie comes in and joins the jokes, I dont see a problem. I think its wrong of old members to act like the newbies have to prove themselves or something.

Now if a newbie comes in all flamboyant and stuff, its usually a sign that they are a returning banned member. but other than that, I dont have a problem with newbies.

Alot of the clique stuff started forming out of hte other forum relationships and crap, the mods and the couples have been good about keeping that to a minimum lately so thats good. Also a lot of the personal threads (Hey whoever) have been gotten rid of so thats good too. As a whole the Other Forum is gettting less cliqueish but there are still a few members who act like they are better than others (i'm guessing they act this way in real life and it aint really an online thing)

Correct, but every forum I go to also has an "Off-Topic" board (in this case the Otter Farm) and new users may want to talk about sports, politics, are interested in buying something outside of DVD-related goodies, etc. This is what an Off-Topic board is for, then they walk into the Farm and wonder what the heck kind of Off-Topic board it is...

Agreed. It's almost like there should be an "Other, Other" board for personal conversations, a place for people to continue their personal relationships, etc. (I'm not saying there's an over-abundance of them here).

However, I guess if everyone else thinks that the Other cliques and more-serious threads can co-exist in harmony, it would almost be counterproductive.

quote:
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Originally posted by AgtFox


Correct, but every forum I go to also has an "Off-Topic" board (in this case the Otter Farm) and new users may want to talk about sports, politics, are interested in buying something outside of DVD-related goodies, etc. This is what an Off-Topic board is for, then they walk into the Farm and wonder what the heck kind of Off-Topic board it is...
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Seriously, check off the Off Topic boards on clubsi.net or many other places. You seem offended by what is in Other, but trust me, we get complaints about how strict we are with our rules.

And for everyone of those potentially bothersome threads, I still see threads that are educational and informative. They do exist.


It seems the thread has morphed into a "discuss your thoughts on Other" thread.

We have:

1. The occasional changing of thread titles as a joke.
2. General state of the forum. Has the fun left the forum? Is it going downhill?
3. Cliques in Other. Welcoming newbies.
4. Mature material and whatnot in Other.
5. Banal threads and humor threads vs serious threads.

All 5 of those are different issues and for the most part have been hashed over (well 2-5 have) time and time again.

1. I think has been beat to death here.
2. IMO, is more a reflection on the person asking and their perspective. But we get asked this question since the forum started.
3. All online forums have cliques. I admin 3 forums and hang out on even more. They are all like this. It's a reflection of real life and group dynamics. The funny thing is, the cliques here are made out of the same people who did not fit into a high school clique IMHO. You don't have to join! I am not in any of these cliques. Hell, I don't want to be in a clique that would have me.
4. Mature material. We can't please everyone. Some say our rules are way too strict (and they are more strict than most online forums). Others say we allow too much. This is a tough one. We do allow some threads that have educational value *cough*betho*cough* even if it might offend someone's delicate sensibilities.

That leaves 5. Serious threads vs the non-serious. And on a sort of related note, some thoughts. Other does NOT drive DVDtalk. Just because it has the most participation and users posting, is not reflective on the purpose of DVDtalk and the value of those posts. It's just Other.

I agree that *most* people come to DVDtalk looking for bargains and DVD information and get involved in conversations about that. Unless they already know someone here, it's rare for a new person (who is not a returning Member of the Banned) to post in Other.

Other being Other is the outlet for the madness. One main reason ANY forum has an Off Topic is to allow the stuff that is off topic a place to go and to keep it out of the regular forums. As it is, DVDtalks "outlet of insanity" has become quite popular.

We all go to Other for our own reasons. As mods and admin, our goal is to provide the balance and compromise for everyone as best as we can. The amount of compromise in this is huge. What is stupid for one, is important to the other. Some people love the sports threads. Some hate them. Ditto with politics or discussions about abortion or gay issues, etc. But it's also true for discussions that resemble online IRC or AOL chats.

Some people come to Other for companionship and a sense of community. Some do not. Some come for serious discussions. Some do not.

Almost anytime you want, you can take a snapshot of the threads on the first 3 pages of Other and you will find a wide sampling of thread subjects that should appeal to someone. Our goal is not allow one type of thread type or subject to overwhelm the forum. You can discuss politics, sports, or what is happening in Vacaville California.

My main point is this... we have a wide variety of subjects and topics and each thread will have a variety of responses. It's like being at a block party in a typical neighborhood, except we have more characters.

But some people see the stuff they don't care for...the stuff that does not interest or pertain to them, and they seem a little bent out of shape about it. If you have no interest in the threads, do not click on them. You can find other threads that will interest you. And probably, those threads you are interested in are not interesting to someone else. And I would hope they don't complain about them either. Again, using the cocktail party analogy... if the conversation does not interest you, walk to the other group that is discussing politics...or whatever.

I do think the question of "should there be a serious and a non-serious Other" is a good question. Perhaps it should be discussed again. I think part of the answer was that this was primarily a DVD discussion forum, and if it was not related to DVDs, it would split into Other. But since then we have created Video Game, Book, and TV.


Lastly, the issue of serious vs non-serious has some difficulties and will not solve all the complaints voiced in this thread. It will not solve that someone is bothered by mature material. It will not solve that someone does not want to read about people's personal lives.

I think the helping of people in Other is one of the coolest things that happens there. For all the silliness and banter, there are a lot of people getting help and advice.

Great post, Randy. And a big for the tightrope you mods walk every day.

That was a great post, RandyC. I'm glad you can see things from our point of view, and also that you're encouraging us to see things from your point of view.

Even though lots of people got kinda pissed at my thread, or thought that I was pissed, I'm glad I posted it. At the very least it has allowed me to see the Other forum in a different light, and that's cool.

<B>Wow... sounds like you two have a nice little 'clique' starting.</B>

I just wanted to chime in and give my point of view. Yes, I do photoshop, yes... I do joke with other 'otters' (I can call them that... right?). And yes... you'd probably throw my in with some 'clique' you're forming in your head... <B><I>but you're wrong</I></B>.

I have been round' these forums for over 2 years... what you see as 'cliques'... I see as friendships. I have met many people here at dvdtalk that I would actually consider 'friends' (imagine that!) I have never gone out of my way to make another poster (new, or old) to feel uncomfortable posting, or IM'ing me.

True... there are many inside jokes in the "other"... but that is because we who have decided to make this our community have seen the same posts, seen the same people get [BANNED], and seen the same 'flubs' whatever they may have been.

I have talked to 'otters' on the phone, through email, and even met many in real life. Hell, I'm driving down to L.A. next weekend to hand out with a group of people from this forum.

No one is told they can't be part of the insanity we call "other". If you really wanted to be part of the community, all you have to do is <B><I>post</I></B>. That's all. If you decide that 'other' doesn't interest you because of it's craziness, that's your decision.

But... please, don't what we consider online friends 'cliques'... because that is being pretty narrow minded.

There's always room for more people at 'other'... but it also takes a person who wants to post and be part of the fun. If you don't post, then what's the point in whining?

-keyser "off to start threads on abortion & gay issues" soze
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It is certainly my decision to post, but I have to agree with them. It is your decision if you will decide you want to call, email, im, and the other things you mentioned.

There are people such as myself who do post all the time, yet I would not say I'm accepted in the cliques. I just say what I need to say and get out of there.

This is not to say that other isn't a great place with really caring people. Many individuals, such as yourself, are really nice people who will help otters out. It is just to say that cliques do seem to exist, and I think seem pretty exclusive.

I've got an idea. How about changing this forum's name to "Other Forum Feedback & Suggestions" ... seems some many of our "issues" stem from over yonder.

Funny, I remember when you were having your time in the sun. As many issues seem to stem from Reviewers/review databases/review problems/poor writing/etc.

Maybe we should leave the title as it is.

Shhhhh. Don't remind us. It'll start again.

Maybe I'm have blinders on then, because I don't see any cliques there... I just look at it as whoever has their own inside jokes, posts, pads, pics, etc... may have stemmed up a friendship.... that's all.

There really no way that anyone could know eaach inside joke, all old pics posted, old threads whatever they may have been, etc. Hell, that would be a 24-7 job!

From my point of view, I have many 'virtual friends' from this place. Some I've known for years (of posting next to each other, IM, etc)... and some.. I've known for 6 months or less.

However it may have started (chat, email, etc) I have come in contact with these people and have talked in some form. Just this morning my cell phone rang with an "east coast otter" on it... calling me to say 'what's up?'

I just don't see the other 'clique' oriented... I see it more along the lines of a school... stay with me for a second:

Remember back in high school, there were 4 classes frosh, soph, juinor, and senior. The people in these classes basically hung out together, because they went throught the system at the same time. I think many of the newer groups, 'cliques', or whatever people want to call them are just this.

Groups of people who found the "joy of otter" at the same time. They have posted next to each other, and probably chatted in groups. Granted... some would call these 'cliques'... but I think of it more as friends who have gotten to know each other over time. All I know is that people have to make the effort (if they want to) to get to know the people in 'other'. An above post made it sound like it was dvdtalks, or even the 'otters' responsibility to go out, find, and make new members feel welcomed. That is just plain silly.

Who knows... maybe I'm wrong. The 'other' is just an open playground... people can come be part of it and play if they want. If they don't like it there, or don't want to 'play'... no love lost I guess.

-k
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One more thing (just re-read you statement).... <B><I>you're wrong on this one.</B></I> (for me personally at least)

I have never 'went out of my way' to make a friend through calling, emails, IM, etc.... it has 'just happened'. I have always had my email address viewable, and open for anyone to send me some. That's how many of my friendships have started, by someone sending me an email.

True, I don't just hand out my IM handle, but it's no secret either. I just don't post it... main reason... I don't want someone IM/ing me telling me that they're someone else. But then again, I guess you can never be sure of who you're REALLY talking to on the net.

The point that I was making is this: Anyone that I've struck up a friendship online from has gotten in touch with me in some way. I don't hide behind a closed door, and decide who's cool enough to be in 'my circle' and then get in touch with them... it's not like that at all.

Friendships take 2 people... that's all.

-k
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I never said it was a responsibility, I guess you misunderstood. You shouldn't have to go out of your way to make new members feel welcomed, not at all. However, it would be nice for a newbie to see the serious discussions on the Farm and not (for example...i.e. I am not singling this out) Jules being a pimp and having (false) relations with other men in the Farm. Yes, this is a joke but for a while there I didn't even know Jules was a guy when I first went into Otter.

If I was a newbie (which I once was), I might be frightened to post in the Farm because of this. In fact, when I was a newbie it took me a while (I believe) to actually go back into the Farm after I first viewed it. I forget where Video Game talk was before there was a forum, but if it was in the Otter...that's the reason I went there.

I'm glad we have specific forums that came out of Otter, I enjoy going to TV, Video Games, Music, etc. and not have to worry about going to Otter to go page by page looking for a topic I'm interested in. Yes, I do search for things I am interested in, but sometimes I like to see how many pages down they are. However, there are still topics (such as Sports and interesting News) that are talked about in Otter and don't have a specific forum assigned to them that in my opinion don't belong in Otter as it stands today (and this is MY opinion). For example, I'd be willing to bet that a Sports forum would see more posts than the Book Forum sees .

And everyone is right, if someone visits this forum they don't necessarily go to Otter or even touch Otter, it's their choice. But for those users that want to talk about something not relating to any other sub-forum, they need to go to Otter and then have to look through page and page to maybe find something they want to talk about or they see their new post go down 3 pages and forgotten about.

I won't touch on the clique nature anymore...I said my peace on it. It's there whether you explain it as an allusion to high school/college or something else.

I love Randy and Blade