LightTrinity

This is a nice program ... however, how will this be managed on DVDTalk?

Already there has been a post in the "other bargains" forum regarding a DVD bargain. ( http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=117517 )

Will something like this be allowed to continue on an individual basis??

Or is this a referral deal and not allowed on DVDTalk?

Just wondering.

We have alrady had the following threads dealing with this subject:

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=117532
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=115087
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=114925
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=114903

Time for a "One and Only" thread ??

<small>

[Edited by LightTrinity on 06-17-01 at 04:05 PM]

ClarkKentKY

I was abotu to post this tonight when you beat me to it.

Seriously, i think DVDtalk should have an official policy on it. Most of the members that have been posting such links/ideas have stated they dont' want to step on DVDtalks toes, so moderators shouldn't be peeved when they show up. I think it could help if Geoff just posted DVDtalk's stance on the issue.

Lots of people have asked whether geoff can get the affiliate % and the STL % combined... Good question. I'm curious myself. I dont' understand all the rules and policies pertaining to STL, But most members would have no problem with DVDtalk "sharing the love" and not some random member. Cause the way it "sounds" is that DVDtalk could profit off of this, and at the same time hand down a little savings to the members if DVDtalk was the one "sharing the love" Maybe just on Big ticket items? Godfather boxset, or the top DVD of the week/month... ??

So if Geoff could give a thumbs up, or a thumbs down, i think it would close the debate completely. $.02

[Edited by ClarkKentKY on 06-17-01 at 06:24 PM]

RandyM

I imagine Amazon would shut this program down (or change the fine print) if a site started getting huge amounts of "love".

Slightly off-topic but somewhat related, there's no monetary incentive to click through DVDTalk when going to one of the stores. I do sometimes, but other times I'm just too lazy. If we could work a deal with say, Amazon, where DVDTalkers got an additional 5% discount, Amazon could get all the dollars we spend at Buy and Empire, Geoff would get a lot highter rate of referrals, and we'd get cheaper DVDs. I don't know if this plan is workable, just a thought.

ClarkKentKY

About a year ago I was in negotiations to get about a 50000 dollar Mypoints-like site operating, which never materialized.(the internet bubble-pop came around just in time) In my discussions with amazon they said "any affiliate program in which %'s or rebates are given to patrons, will be terminated and considered anti-productive to amazon's affiliate program." So that answers RandyM's statement. B&N however embraced such ideas, at the time at least.

However, perhaps with their new "share the love (who are the ad wizards who came up with this one! -SNL) program" maybe their ideas on giving back to the customer have changed. So i think that one is out of the question.

But i think, like the Godfather set. If geoff, or a moderator, bought Godfather on DVDtalks behalf, then wrote down the emails of members voicing interest in getting some DVDtalk-love shared on them.. (eww) Then the members could go and buy the Godfather Boxset, giving DVDtalk a credit of 10% on their purchase, times however many members did it.. 10, 100, 1000... And on top of that, the affiliat % that DVDtalk would get by a member clicking through the shop-link.

But i'm pretty sure the ultimate answer to this will be that the two programs cannot be used in combination with each other. And that the hassle involved for DVDtalk would not be a managable thing, since you first have to poll for which members want to be referred, and yadda yadda yadda... And if i remember correctly, Amazon used a bracket Scale for its %'s.. So it is in DVDtalk's best interest to ignore the STL program and continue with its normal Affiliate revenue. So i guess i kinda answered my own question didn't I? Still it would be nice to get the official thumbs down from Geoff...



[Edited by ClarkKentKY on 06-17-01 at 07:14 PM]

Bushdog

I'd not mind a clarification on this Geoff.

Until I hear otherwise, these are referrals and not allowed at DVDTalk. Nothing personal, just enforcing the rules on the books.

Adboy151

I thought with STL, you get only one credit from the item your 'friend' buys. So if you send 10 people STL e-mails, you only get the 'Love' from the first person who buys that item.

And isn't the 'Love' just compensated back in the form of Amazon.com credit to be used within 30 days?

I see no advantage to DVDTalk and this is just a new referral program and thus not allowed by DVD Talk's own rules.

[Edited by adboy151 on 06-18-01 at 02:38 PM]

ClarkKentKY

Well, i don't think there's any question over whther members should be able to use it for their advantage. Obviously not.

I think the question at hand was whether DVDtalk should some how implement it so that members would be more "influenced" to purchase through DVDtalk's links.

But like i said i have a sneaking feeling that the two programs can't be combined, and STL wouldn't help DVDtalk.

LightTrinity

As far as my understanding of the program goes ... you are completely correct. One credit for one person compensated in the form of credit.

I understand now that this IS a referral program. And as such, it goes against DVDTalk rules.

Thanks for clearing this up.

MacKenzie

I posted about this program the day I found out about it, an it still seems like there has to be some sort of forum where we can all share with one another. And thats what I suggested in my 1st post:
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=114903

But the mods didn't like that. I also emailed Geoff and he never responded, now I know he doesn't have time for ever email he gets but this seems like a big issue.

I understand that there is money to be made by DVDTALK if you buy from Amazon using their links. But the honest truth for me is that I come to DVDtalk forums for the deals, and the news that other people post in the forums on upcoming DVDs. Now I am all for Geoff making some money to keep DVDtalk going, but isn't there some point where it is unreasonable for DVDtalk to expect us to use their link at our own expense? What I mean is that to expect us to use DVDTalk links over 10% off share the love links is rediculious. And to close threads that suggest this is silly. This program is a Deal in every sense of the word. It would be just as much a deal even if you got nothing for sharing the love. (meaning you could only send the 10% off link but you got nothing for your friend using it).

I don't mean to sound harsh, and let me say I like this site. But this site is good not because of the reviews, or the petitions or the give aways. This site is good because of the people who use the forum. And our wish to save money should not be considered Anti-DVDtalk.

Do I sound out of line?

Blade

While we appreciate and encourage members to use DVDTalk's links when they shop, it's never been a requirement for participation here.

However, you need to remember that Geoff is the one that pays for the running of this forum. Why would you expect him to let others use resources he's paying for to make money for themselves.

Similarly, part of the reasoning behind the "no affiliate links" rule is the idea that we don't want members posting here with the intent of enriching themselves. We want members posting here who want to help their fellow DVDTalkers, not just themselves.

I understand that some disagree with this policy, and that's fine too, but since it is Geoff's site, ultimately it is his way or the highway. And especially with something like this (which has been discussed in many, many different forms over the past couple of years) there's little or no chance that he's going to change a policy that has worked well for DVDTalk all of this time.

MacKenzie

Well first, we have yet to hear from Geoff on this issue and I find the current mod assumption that even discussing a referal program is against the rules a rather narrow interpritation.

Second it is the posters of the forum who ultimatly make Geoff's site worth visiting. I do not pretend to speak for DVDtalk posters, because as anyone who reads these forum knows we have every sort of opinion on here. Nor am I proposing some sort of majority rules system. Obviously the mods have the power to block and edit any message that they wish. I am simply suggesting that possibly this site would be make better, more popular, and there by more profitable for Geoff if a system where people could take advantage of this deal on DVDTalk could be worked out.

Third, I have seen many internet pyramad schemes. Most are total garbage, and I am very glad that DVDtalk does not allow them. The difference I see in this deal is that the first person to benifit is the person who uses the referal link. With an equal benifit going to the person who's link you used. This is not a system that encorages the maddness that goes with many referal systems that attempt to get new users in some sort of pyramid scheme.

Again I know it is up to Geoff what is and isn't acceptable here. All I am asking is for him to look at this, and not have the mods simply see it as another scam referal non-deal. I know some bargin forums have referal specific forums, would this be an option? Are you worried that Amazon would be against DVDtalk allowing this sort of discussion? I don't think this would encorage people to use DVDtalk for personal profit, but for the same reason I read the deals forum, because I am intrested in getting a good price.

Adboy151

I understand what you're trying to do... but step back for second and take a look at what you're saying.

You want your DVDTalk cake and eat it too. You're asking for the community to thrive but in way that aligns little pockets of buddies helping out buddies to make a buck. And there is a portion of the 'STL' program that you may not be aware of that can make the whole process VERY one-sided.

You're relitively new to the Forum and that's okay. I started coming around this site about eight months before I joined. And while I'm not an old-timer by any means, I and others will atest to these programs - like 'STL', begging for gift certificates and programs that offer 'something for nothing' - spiral out of control very rapidly. Why? A few rotten folks who throw the process completely out of wack. It happens and nothing can be done to stop it. Unless you nip it from the onset.

It's simplier and better for the forum as a whole if it doesn't become 10% deals posted by members helping members and then the other 90% looking for a 'Love' partner. And it would happen. I think Randy mentioned this in your original post.

And as mentioned above, the 'STL' and the Amazon affilate program don't work together. They're two different systems. I doubt our Geoff is going to have the clout to convince another Jeff to combine these programs so DVDTalk gets a better deal.

Now until Amazon changes the rules of 'STL' - which will come sooner or later - it's going to be DVDTalk's dirty underground habit. Don't ask, don't tell - just nod knowingly. One look at The Godfather thread and you can see it.

I enjoy the 10% discount 'STL' brings as well, and I would like it to continue. But things will change. I just don't want DVD Talk to suffer in the long term because of the greed of few in short term - and I don't mean to include you in that bunch.

It's a referal... it should be treated as such according to rules established.

[Edited by adboy151 on 06-19-01 at 05:00 PM]

RandyC

FWIW, as the mod that closed the thread...I do not consider the STL program some sort of scam referal thing.

The reason I closed the thread, and one of the main reasons I understand we do not allow threads like that, is that unless something is setup (as you have suggested) by Geoff that benefits everyone systematically....it will have a bad effect on the forums to allow referal threads like these.

The rules as set by Geoff are designed not only to not siphon off possibly site earning links...but to not allow the forums to be full of posts asking for referals or selling our own product. It does not take too much for half the forum to be people saying "buy at my vstore" or "click on my link" or whatever. As a mod, one of our primary duties is the policing of this. As adboy151 mentions, this rapidly spirals out of control.

Again, if Geoff can set up some fair system for this program, than that would be cool. There have been exceptions made for certain programs, like the one and only Brands For Less thread.

Bushdog

What those boys said. Thumbs up.

MacKenzie

Ok, yes and look I know your job as a mod isn't always an easy one. I might not have many posts, but I have been frequenting forums like this one and others for a long time. I agree that referals can be the death of a whole forum. I agree that members of a forum can post things that will get the site in deep trouble with e-tailers (anandtech and STAPLES codes comes to mind). So please understand that I really do see the dangers. But as someone who has seen many such deals... and looked for every possible way to take advantage of them I really don't see how allowing this would "spiral out of control".

First as I read the rules and as it seems to have worked for me so far, you get the option to send out the 10% off links when you place an order. And if someone uses that link you also get that 10% off in credit at Amazon (you get a max of one credit per item, i.e. if I order the Godfather and two people order using my STL link I only get 1 credit).

Ok, so I think to myself assuming moderators were not a problem, what is the most I could gain off of this program?


First whenever I was to place an order at Amazon it would be best to always have a 10% off STL link of someone else's to use.

Next I would want to then have someone use my STL link that was gained off of my order.

This would gain me a net 20% off. Very good I agree but but the point I am making is that after I have done these two things, I am out of the chain and there is no more money to be made by me. I can't make any more money off the STL link because it has already been used, and the only way to get another active STL link is to place another order.

So, someone please explain to me how this program sprials out of control? I admit that if their are multiple chains started then that would be annoying, but I don't really seeing that happen. Because with this program, people who break the chain and order not using the 10% off link are penialized 10%. (For example, if I choose not to use your 10% off STL link because I don't wish to give you money then I have to pay full price and then the best I can hope for is a 10% gain if someone uses my STL link)

Yes there is a theoretical looser, the very first person of every chain only 10% off and the last person of the chain only gets 10% off. But with so many DVDtalk users ordering the same DVDs this would be a very small percent of the people ordering and even they would be gaining 10% off.

If you think I misunderstood how this works please tell me.

RandyC

It appears we have some understanding then. The problem is not that there is a plan. It's not that the perception that the plan is evil. It's more in how would DVDtalk implement this in a way that helps everyone, without causing a lot of threads like this:
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=118222

And ultimately, it would be up to Geoff.

MacKenzie

Not sure if this changes anything, but I was reading this thread.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=118089

And saw this posted

*************************

anali
DVD Talk Addict

Registered: Jan 2000

I don't know if I should be saying this (possibly at the risk of getting banned), but it's for the benefit of everyone: members, administrators and site owners all. It is possible to receive affiliate earnings even when members use the new discount sharing program from Amazon. Instruct your members to click on the DVDTalk affiliate link first, then on the discount link they receive from their friend, and then place an order. The benefit is threefold: one, the buyer gets his 10% discount, two, the friend gets his credit, and three, the affiliate site gets the referral earnings. I've tried it myself, and yes, the items do show up in my Associate summary report.

Peace,
Anali

**************************************

I am not really sure it changes anything. But it is intresting. And it seems like this could then end up meaning a lot more people used the DVDTalk click thrus. And that would be good for everyone right?

dave955

What about something like a password protected share the love forum where only members can read and post to chains? I would be willing to pay a nominal fee to be a member of such a forum, too...

Without STL, Amazon's prices are (now) high enough that I might as well shop at Borders with my 20% institutional discount.

Of course, it's not yet clear to me STL will work, for a number of reasons. #1 being that it makes me much less inclined to shop at Amazon when I don't have an STL link because I know I am being screwed by at least 10%.

MacKenzie

Could someone who understan the affilate link a little better explain how it works to me. I was playing around with a STL link and I was wondering exactly how this works.

Because when I look at links to DVDs on DVDTalk I see a "/DVDtalk" in the url. So I tried to add that to a STL link to see if it would still work. And the link still works fine. I am not really sure what this means, it seems like someone would have to do a little testing on their own to see if the affilate links still give credit when it is a STL link into the Amazon site.

matchpenalty

1) How about a dvdtalk buying group or ring at Amazon, that would allow people to share among all members of the group

2) From what I see, you can use the dvdtalk link and still participate in STL

3) People aren't getting paid. Remember, all you have is 30 days to use any credit (you only get one) for starting the chain by making the first purchase.

4) We need to discourage the threads and actions of some who try to go around the rules.

Applejack

I liked the idea for a thread that someone started which was "the one and only share the love thread"

There could be a DVD talk amazon link at the top of the page, and people could post what they have just bought through "share the love". after the item is bought, the person who posted what they bought in the first place could delete their post so the thread doesn't get too long. To ensure that this happens, someone could be made the share the love moderator who can make sure that these posts are deleted.

This could be the only thread in DVD bargains, or even DVD clubs as a share the love club, related to share the love. After all, it is a much better bargain than the usual $5 off of $300 from buy.com

What do you guys think.... Geoff??

MacKenzie

I agree with matchpenalty 4th point. We need some sort of action on this because now it seems like every thread I read in the bargains forum seems to make some illusion that you should email if you want to STL. I can't see this going away until DVDTalk does something to make a fair system for us all to STL. Otherwise it seems like the forum is going to get to the point were 1/2 the threads are locked or soon to be locked because of people mentioning that they would like to STL.

EDIT: I should point out that I think the solution is some sort of DVDTalk sanctioned way to STL. This is just too good a deal for people to just stop doing it because the mods say stop. I know we all agreed to follow the rules when we signed up for the forums. But unless there is some way to legitimacy STL there are always going to be people just "mentioning" that they will be ordering some DVD from Amazon, and please send them STL links.


[Edited by MacKenzie on 06-22-01 at 05:57 PM]

RMan360

I agree also. I don't really see the difference in people begging for others to "STL", and begging for giftcards or codes. This should not be allowed (the later two aren't) as it is counterproductive to the purpose of the thread.

-Matt