Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

I worked as a projectionist then so I knew about aspect ratios right away. I even knew about squeeze LDs but didn't really see it as a big deal til I saw a 16x9 TV at a friend's house. Even then it seemed like kind of a pain since you had to manually adjust the screen format for everything. I was afraid that cropping 2.35 movies would become the norm, but thankfully that didn't really happen. What didn't help matters was the Laserdisc Newsletter reviewing every DVD as being the proper ratio in 4x3, but cropped slightly in 16x9. That turned out to be a mistake on their part and they stopped saying that after a while.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

Yeah. I'm sure it is a mistake. I looked at my shelf last night and found the cards and poker chip, but no model Aston Martin. I do indeed use DVDProfiler, so it could have been a multiple entry mistake. As to your point about where to file box sets or movie collections, I always file them under where I would look for them and then in chronological order. The Indiana Jones movies are under "I", Rambo movies are under R, all the fast and furious movies are under F, etc.

I'm trying to remember where I got a lot of my early dvds. Reel.com was a big one that gave out a lot of discount codes I remember. And another I used alot was dvd planet, I think. I remember getting some post it pads from them.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

I understood the idea but I didn't grasp its importance. I had a coworker who was an aspect ratio evangelical, dismayed by all the heathens who wouldn't open our eyes. The example he gave that finally got through to me was a shot in a movie trailer that I'd seen. Someone (I keep thinking it's Antonio Banderas, but maybe it's not) drawing pistols and holding them with his arms all the way stretched out on either side. In pan & scan, you don't see either gun, let alone both. Just his head and torso. I wasn't ready for DVD but I went all-in on widescreen VHS for that tiny window during which that format was a thing.

Funny you mention Jurassic Park. I fell down a rabbit hole last year and looked up the dates and prices:

11 June 1993 - Theatrical opening date; average ticket price that year: $4.14
4 October 1994 - VHS release; MSRP $24.98 [1 year, 3 months, 24 days after theatrical opening]
10 October 2000 - DVD release; MSRP $26.98 [3 years, 6 months, 16 days after first commercial DVD on sale in U.S. (Twister, 24 March 1997)]

You could also get a slipcase Collector's Set with both Jurassic Park and The Lost World on DVD for $53.98, or for $119.98 you could get the Deluxe Edition with both DVD's, their soundtracks on CD, a senitype (whatever the hell that is), and a certificate of authenticity.

That's hardly complete; I couldn't find if the Letterboxed Edition VHS was the same MSPR as the pan & scan VHS. There was subsequent 1997 re-issue of the widescreen version on VHS. And I obviously didn't look far into the matter of LaserDisc info other than seeing there were a few versions.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

I had a coworker (the guy who actually introduced me to this board but has long quit posting) who would return every Full Screen DVD to the manufacturer and put a note "Defective - only contains half the movie". When a customer would come in clearly wanting the full screen version, he would intentionally confuse them by asking something like "do you want the version that has the full picture?" and then sell them a widescreen version.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

Even though he was technically right, that guy sounds like a real dick.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

Agreed, though part of me thinks it's funny.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

Yeah, it's one thing to educate a customer and convince them to buy widescreen. It's completely different to intentionally mislead them in a misguided attempt to influence sales numbers of WS vs P&S.

Returning the fullscreen ones to the manufacturer was just funny.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

In many cases it's really not true with all fullscreen presentations. If a film was originally formatted in 1.85:1 in theatres the "fullscreen" DVD would often show the complete 1.33:1 open-matte image (no cropping at the edges) which provides extra image along the top and bottom of the picture. No, this was not the correct way of watching the movie but the viewer was actually given more image than the widescreen version.

I agree 2.35:1 scope films were completely butchered in 4:3 fullscreen with panning & scanning and scenes almost being re-cut.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

I remember watching a Woody Allen movie that'd been shot for 2.35:1 on a TV via pan & scan. It was horrible! Quite often there'd be people talking but you'd not see them or just get half of one of the people as Allen had framed them to the far left or right on the screen and the transfer was a simple "lock it down in the center" type.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

Joke was on him. He lost money to try to make a point to people that didn't care. In fact, if I was a customer of his, I would be pissed.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

Sort of reminds me of the Jack Black record store clerk character in "High Fidelity" who would rather sway the customer's opinion than take their money.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

We were getting paid hourly, it had zero effect on his paycheck.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

I could be wrong, but I remember Animal House having unskippable previews and a huge fuss about it being raised at that time. Not positive if it was the first, as there might have been a less popular title they started with.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

So he didn't return any of his own discs to the manufacturer.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

No, he only returned DVDs that were shipped to the store. He'd open the shipments, pull out the full screen versions and mark them defective, then stock the shelves with the widescreens.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

Holy shit. That's even funnier.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

What an idiot.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

No, Alan Smithee's still posting; he can usually be found in the "Other" thread. :rimshot:

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

I wouldn't have had to open up the discs to determine them as defective- they all had the message on the back cover "This film has been modified from its original version" so that was enough to reject them. I took orders by phone at Tower in the early 2000s (does any retailer still do that? You can't get anyone on the phone from Amazon to save your life!) and if they asked for a title I'd always give them the widescreen unless they specifically asked for the other one; I even did that when they ordered VHS and there was a widescreen tape available. I once overheard a co-worker talking to someone who complained about "The Magnificent Seven" only being in widescreen, if they had gotten me I would've asked them if they would rather see "The Magnificent 3 1/2". It was just stupid on every level for the studios to label pan and scan transfers as "fullscreen", it's amazing widescreen still prevailed in spite of that.

But if they had just been able to perfect DVD-18s, they could have just issued a 2-sided disc with BOTH versions, as the format always promised, and be done with it. Only a few titles used DVD-18s to hold both widescreen and pan and scan versions on the same disc. Two of those were Bandits and Chitty Chitty Bang Bang which eventually were reissued without the "Foolscreen" sides.



Reminds me that I still haven't watched the "Double Secret Probation Edition" of that, which I have included with the combo HD-DVD. Will have to see if that has forced previews. All 3 discs in the "High School Reunion Collection" had a forced trailer for Animal House on them though, which made me in no hurry to pick that disc up. Starting out a disc with previews is bad enough but disabling most of the player controls during them, expecting you to watch them EVERY TIME, is beyond annoying. It's less of an issue now since my Oppo has a button that will just have DVDs go to the main movie (or more accurately the longest title on the disc) regardless of how the disc is authored.

Speaking of that, has anyone in the industry ever given a reason why most discs force you to watch the FBI warnings every time? My only guess is that makes sure everyone sees them so they can't claim ignorance if they go ahead and make copies after that.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

DVD-Video's virtual machine was design from the very start to have a UOP (user operation prohibition) flag system. Back in the day, it can be easily enforced by licensing/patents.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

Exactly that. So you can't use plausible deniability to say you didn't know you weren't supposed to do that.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

I know some discs are authored where the menu appears before the FBI Warning. The user presses "Chapters", then selects "Chapter 1" allowing the user to completely avoid the previews and FBI warnings. This worked really well with a lot of Disney "Fast-Play" enabled discs which usually spun the viewer into a whole labyrinth of previews, warnings etc.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

I was scrolling through my liked lists on Letterboxd and came across this one: "Where it all began. The first DVDs of your collection." It hasn't been updated in nine years, or even had any new comments in that time, but thought I'd share in the spirit of the discussion. You'll see Tombstone on the list courtesy of yours truly.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

That is an interesting list. The writer was a few years after the initial rollout of DVD it looks like. Anyone else remember two versions of the Fugitive DVD? Both snappers but one had extras (maybe a commentary?) I know I had both for some reason. And Seven had the initial snapper release then a 2 disc new line platinum release. Ahh, those must have been some of the earlier double dips that would soon become the norm.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

All I remember about The Fugitive is that I bought it along with U.S. Marshals. I'm reasonably confident they were shrink-wrapped together at Walmart. I'd forgotten all about those side-by-side bundles they used to sell. Sometimes they were a ready made double feature, like that pair. Sometimes I think the only thing they had in common was that there were piles of those two movies they needed to get out of the warehouses. Those intrigued me. I'd pick them up and turn them over to look at the credits on the back of the packages to look for any commonality.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

I had both editions of The Fugitive. I also remember owning Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory in 4:3. That release caused a lot of backlash and online petitions, which I signed. Warner Brothers not long after did announce and release a flipper version with "full screen" on one side and widescreen on another. It seemed like such an exciting time for movies.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

Yeah, it was an incredible time, when we could actually affect how the studios released DVDs. Like getting the original Japanese audio added to the Princess Mononoke DVD so late in the process they had to put a sticker on the shrink wrap about it.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

Speaking of influencing releases, I fondly remember TVShowsOnDVD.com and their organized campaigns. The 1966 Batman was, as I recall, the top demanded series pretty much the entire time that website operated. Ken Burns should make a documentary about what went into finally getting that series put out on disc. We've only ever heard rumors and speculations about everything from Warner and Fox not agreeing on how to split the money to DC not wanting that embarrassment to be kept alive in the public's consciousness to George Barris owning the rights to the Batmobile and being uncooperative, but to my knowledge, nothing has ever been publicly confirmed as having been a problem, nor have we heard how the issues were ever navigated.

I was always hesitant about getting TV shows on DVD. For one thing, a season could easily be $100 or more. I also just couldn't convince myself I was ever going to re-watch shows enough to justify the price or even the shelf space. I get why they went for large boxes for TV shows at the time, to convey a sense of volume versus the standard DVD Amaray case for a movie. A lot of those TV season boxes were surprisingly unattractive (looking at you, Star Trek spin-offs), but some were spiffy. I loved the BCI Eclipse releases of He-Man and the Masters of the Universe and She-Ra, Princess of Power, and the mural on their spines. Unfolding the package to get to the individual discs was a nuisance, though. I thought the season sets of The Sopranos were elegant. I also dug the original hardback cases for Psych.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

If I knew then what I know now, I probably would not have bought a single DVD.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

But didn't we find out? The story I read was that one of the top producers of the show distributed percentages of the rights amongst his kids so they would always have some kind of income and the trouble was finding all the now grown offspring and convincing them to go in on the project.

I would have bought way less stuff that is just mainstream things that will always be on TV/streaming and more stuff like classic monster movies with really good making-of's and maybe more anime.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

I'd have just delayed my more expensive purchases that've stayed in print (with lower prices and/or BR upgrades, better pq, *and* packaging) and picked up a few things earlier - before they went OOP and I decided I "needed" them... Essentially, I'd be up by a few thousand dollars and have just as much content...

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

My hesitation towards TV shows was not only the fact I would probably not re-watch them but my feelings about TV shows is that they were "free" when I first watched them - so now I have to pay for them?

Watching movies in the theatre was (and still is) expensive so owning the home video version had a higher perception of value in my mind.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

I still feel that way about DVDSpot. I contributed a lot of reviews to that site. My first DVDs came with the first machine I bought in 2000, Divine Madness and True Stories.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

You also could have taped them off the air- that's why in the 80s and 90s I never saw the point of TV shows being released on pre-recorded VHS (or Beta.) I like having the complete original airings of stuff from that era, with commercials. By the late 90s though the networks started keeping their logos onscreen all the time, so that was when I quit watching. Commercial time got excessive also, almost doubling what it used to be. That was a good time to put shows out on disc without any of those annoyances. That was also an early instance of "binge-watching" also; I would usually at least watch every episode that was on a single disc, though I had also taped a few weeks' worth of shows previously then watched them in one sitting.

There was a LOT of TV-related stuff on DVD that didn't really deserve to be released (mainly reality shows), but since it was that means it'll be preserved for eternity. It'll be harder with the HD stuff as only a select few have been on Blu-Ray with the rest left for streaming, where it could just disappear one day and never be seen again.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

I wasn't a fan of channel logos but I acclimated. It was when they started imposing animations on the screen during the TV show in the aughts that I lost my patience. The absolute worst offender in that respect was hands down Spike TV. Their graphics had sound and would "fly" across the screen over the show. Do you know how irksome something has to be for me to decide it isn't worth it watch Deep Space Nine?!

I will also note, I think watching shows uncut undermines them in a certain regard. They were structured to account for those commercial breaks. Part of the viewing experience was to have that suspense fester. Where did that character come from? How did this thing get there? Did she say, "Yes"? It wasn't just for dramas. Comedies had that factor, too. How was he going to explain this? How was she going to fix that? Not being able to pause also meant that if you were going to the bathroom or to get a snack or take out the garbage, etc., you had to be expedient. That timer imposed a certain urgency that amplified the suspense--especially because you didn't know for sure how long the break would last!

I realized this when I went through DS9 a few years ago. I had my choice of where to stream it. At the time, I had access to Netflix but I went with Hulu instead for those ad breaks. They gave me time to remember what happened next. They also gave me time to reflect on the last segment and what I saw this time that maybe I hadn't caught before. A lot of episodes I hadn't seen since they first aired, which meant I was seeing them for the first time knowing how it all played out. I couldn't have contemplated those little things during a split-second fade out/fade in.

All that said, I have every intention of treating myself to the eventual DS9 Blu-ray box set. I think the shift to streaming has changed the game. It was one thing for the bean counters to say they wouldn't sell enough discs to justify HD upgrades. Now, though, it's an embarrassment for DS9 and Voyager to still be in SD while all the rest of Star Trek can be viewed in HD. I expect at least announcement, if not releases, for those by the end of the year. In that case, streaming will actually have benefited us disc collectors.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

I agree. I didn't mind the station logo watermark in the corner but once they started with the moving animated ads running along the bottom, that became irritating. A show like "Three's Company" would have an epilogue at the end which would often be cut-out in favour of more commercials. After that, the credits would be squeezed into the top corner and put on fast-forward.

Now that I'm reminded of those things, maybe the DVD versions were worth the money.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

I'll take logos every day of the week over unending news crawls. Absolutely loathe them on sports and news channels.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

Along those lines, I despise the default setting in most streaming apps to minimize the end credits or just straight up cut out on them to autoplay the next episode if you're watching a series. I can't even find where to turn it off on Paramount+. I want there to be an I Have an Attention Span setting that fixes all that, and ideally it would also prevent a service from autoplaying a trailer--or straight up starting the movie/show!--if you linger longer than five seconds on anything. Disc menus are sometimes tedious but there's no question that the viewing experience is more gratifying.

When they started the crawls, I thought those graphics were separate from the show, like the channel logos and such. Then I started seeing clips of news shows that had aired previously and they still had those original crawls. They're obnoxious in perpetuity.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

I have zero tolerance for any of that crap. Most services have ways around that which I use- one is Airplay which lets you play content from an iphone or ipad and then send the video and audio to your streaming device in full quality, but playing it through a generic interface that can't do anything like that. Netflix doesn't work with that, but it does work with a Kodi add-on.

Some of Sony's recent 4k and Blu-Rays have a small menu popping up during the end credits giving you the choice of going to the extras or main menu. I've stopped buying their discs because of that. Even movies bought on streaming don't do that (yet, at least)- Sony obviously wants to kill discs at this point. They already pissed me off plenty when they reissued several DVD titles without the widescreen transfers, when they originally had both. They've kept flip-flopping from one of the best companies quality-wise to one of the worst.

Re: 25 Years of DVD!
 

I haven't picked up any recent Sony discs so I haven't encountered that. It certainly sounds obnoxious, though. What surprises me about all of this is that so far, none of the various guilds have stopped these practices. They have all these stringent policies about credits for the full casts and crews, but what's the point if no one can see them? I wouldn't refuse to buy a favorite movie over it, but I'd certainly be disappointed and grouse.