Re: The 9th Annual Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Time to shift the focus from Superman to Lois Lane and dust off those Superman serials and box sets of Seasons 2 through 5 of "The Adventures of Superman."

Noel Neill, the quintessential Lois Lane, has passed away. Here's a news story via her biographer, Larry Thomas Ward:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/07/...-dies-aged-95/

https://c6.staticflickr.com/4/3823/1...98f5288b65.jpg

Re: The 9th Annual Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge Discussion Thread
 

^I saw that earlier today and almost cried. We lost Jack Larson (aka Jimmy Olsen) last September.

The last surviing cast member is Phyllis Coates who turned 89 in January.

I'd not planned to watch any of the TV episodes this year but am reconsidering...

Re: The 9th Annual Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge Discussion Thread
 

I just watched the Season 4 episode 'Joey', to honor Noel Neill. I'll likely watch more this month too.

Re: The 9th Annual Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge Discussion Thread
 

I just finished ID4. And I'm following it up with 2012. I might do Day After Tomorrow later tonight. It's a good day for a Roland Emmerich marathon.

Re: The 9th Annual Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge Discussion Thread
 

Pit is definitely my favorite of the two I've seen. Island of Terror I need to revisit. Grabbers was a hoot.

BTW, is there a preferred version for Quatermass II? Mini-series or feature film?

I'm watching it tonight.

Coincidentally I caught another alien invasion flick: Pixels. It was surprising enjoyable, despite its reputation. The first film since Punch Drunk Love I could actually stand Sandler, and the only time I could tolerate Kevin James. Also, Dinklage!

Re: The 9th Annual Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge Discussion Thread
 

I don't think there's a preferred version as such. Both versions have their strengths/weaknesses. The serials were created before the movies so they might be considered closer to what Kneale was shooting for.

Re: The 9th Annual Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge Discussion Thread
 

I decided to watch a few episodes of The Adventures of Superman. My oldest grandson is at the house and was watching with me. I'd selected S3E1 - "Through the Time Barrier" as one episode. As soon as Sterling Holloway spoke he exclaimed "Hey! That's the guy who does the voice for Winnie the Pooh!" He's never heard that voice outside the Pooh shorts and Disney's The Jungle Book and thought that was pretty cool! So did I! :)

Re: The 9th Annual Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge Discussion Thread
 

I've only read golden age Superman and he's no defender of truth and justice unless his selfish goals end up working out that way.

In one story some guys had an oil drilling site and they found out they'd make more money selling stock than drilling for oil. Lots of people lost money since the stock was worthless. One guy kills himself in the office.

Clark Kent goes around and buys all the stock really cheap from the other stockholders and gives them a small profit.

He turns into Superman, flies to the drilling site, beats up the people working there and drills until he finds oil.

The guys that own the thing go around trying to buy all the stock back before word gets out. They find out Clark has it and send two thugs to take him out. Naturally they get fucked up.

Clark goes to the guys and sells the stock for one million dollars. The oil guys figure it's a small price to pay because they'll make a whole lot more from the oil.

In the middle of the night, Superman abducts them and takes them out to the drill site. He destroys all the equipment, sets fire to the oil and tells the owners they better not sell anything ever again.

It seems like there could've been an easier way to do this but that's one way to do a get rich quick scheme.

In another story, Clark gets an interview with a guy that escaped prison. The guy talked about how they beat everyone, that sort of stuff. Prison officials go to the newspaper and demand to know who the source was, Clark has a plan, so he tells them who and where the guy is staying.

They get the guy and take him back to prison.

Clark knows they're going to beat the shit out of the guy for talking but he wants to get arrested and sent to prison before any of this happens, so he can take pictures of the guy getting beat down, for the newspaper.

Clark's plan actually works except instead of the guy just getting beat, they kill him too. Clark doesn't care, he's just in for the pictures of all this happening. He gets the pictures to the newspaper, everything's exposed, and everybody is happy.

These are the only kinds of stories I ever enjoyed reading. Later on he turns into a goody two shoes and whenever a new problem comes along that he's never had to solve before, he poops out a new power to solve it or uses an existing power to make the earth spin backwards to save the day.

Re: The 9th Annual Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge Discussion Thread
 

I caught this last year and enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. I dislike Sandler too but he's not too bad in this one, honestly.

Watched the cartoon version of The BFG tonight. I plan on seeing the new movie on Wednesday and it'll be interesting to see how each differs/are the same as the book. There are quite a few adaptations of Dahl's books beyond Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. I just wish a few of them were available beyond Region 2. (Esio Trot, Danny, Champion of the World and...hmm, thought there was a 3rd, but maybe not as I'm not seeing it in my to buy list). One of these days, I should pick up a region free player.

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Sharknado....

I'm torn between which is worse - the acting, the 'plot(s)' or the special effects...

...enjoyable idiocy, though. And weird-good cameos!

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Right off the bat, though? He has a "secret" identity for a reason, and yet in MoS (and BvS) makes no real attempt to keep it secret. Lois knows immediately. Lex finds out in minutes. There are, perhaps, shades of modernity and realism in that, but it's unSuperman.

Marriage on page and screen is fine. (I'm one of those people who enjoys the New Adventures.) Finding out/revealing his identity is fine. But a semblance of subterfuge to begin with is surely key! In Byrne's Man of Steel Lex has a computer work out the secret... and dismisses it angrily that Superman would ever stoop to such a masquerade. With Cain & Hatcher, HG Wells told them that the future remembered Lois as being blinded by love. It's a bit trite, but the core suggestion is key - why would Superman need a secret identity? And/or how could it possibly be mild-mannered Clark Kent?

But it didn't just seem to be the government. (And unless they were preaching rebellion/revolution, actively being anti-government is surely bad enough.) There's the contrast between his schoolfellows' bullying/mockery in 1978 and the 'weirdo' fear/bullying shown in MoS. By Donner, and (my reading) of the character, it's a teachable moment: you're different, you're better but bear with them and rise above it. With Snyder there's Ma Kent literally taking him out of school to 'protect' him. I didn't like the implications or the sense of how (not) to deal with it all.

I far prefer it when the Kents don't die. I like the idea that they contiue to keep him grounded (metaphorically & literally) and in touch with his humanity. But if Jonathan has to die, it's good when it's an Uncle Ben teaching point. I've mentioned the MoS farce, but now I want to disagree with your reading of 1978. He did nothing because he could do nothing. He did nothing because, despite being on a farm (though maybe not a livestock one..?) and presumably being familiar with death, it hadn't hit home. Jonathan dying and Clark being powerless is critical to a deeper understanding of human frailty and non-immortality. It's importamt without the film to realise that everyone will die at some point despite him; it's important within the dilm because Jor El says 'don't interfere' and then Lois dies. It's meta-important because despite being powerless, he could - as you suggest - have safeguarded against it better. Could have listened for arrhythmia (or whatever). Could maybe have flown his dad to a doctor. Should have been paying closer attention. And henceforth always will. And it was a heart attack, not a bizarre act of self-sacrifice for no reason.

Ha!

There are a lot of oddities...

But I don't recall there being a dedinite reason to suppose he was completely incommunicado for 15 years... or that he though it would take that long. Many people need to deal with personal crises by themselves, and he needed to learn both how to let go of the inevitability of human death and learn to be a better protector of mankind.

Also, how could he have known Zod was there when he was without his powers*? Presumably 90% of the country was equally oblivious, and at that point he had no extra senses/abilities to help him.



*I'm ignoring at present the appalling lack of judgement that saw him give up his powers... though worse decisions have been made for love. (And the irreversible being reversed is surely a confusion of Lester and the script rather than a total plothole.)

Re: The 9th Annual Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge Discussion Thread
 

I remember not really caring for Birthright, but cannot recall specifically why - it may have just been mild bemusement at the perceived need for ANOTHER vague update on an established and much retold.well-known origin.

I didn't like the rugged Jor El of MoS the first time, but a second viewing rehabilitated it almost completely. I agree that the animated series' Krypton scenes are pretty great - and (I think) seem to strike a nice balance between Scientist and 'action' Jor El.

I quite like 'ice-world Krypton' as being more of a metaphoric representation of the frigid, clinical SCIENCE&hubris that allowed the council to dismiss Jor El. It's a reasonable logical-extension of the circumstances - hubris, wilful ignorance, dispassionate testtube babies, etc. I think it was partly that sense (and the overall greatness of The Movie) that led me to not be too happy with Action JoRussel and his He-man lion-thing. But it was also the implicit diminishing of the heroism and uniqueness of Superman - if he's merely 'his father's son', and Jor El is a man of action AND super scientist (and crazy-good hacker, etc.), then the sense in which Superman is born as much from the humanity and goodness of Clark Kent, as taught by his adoptive parents goes out of the window. Man of Steel's Superman seems to be a hero because his real dad was. Not out of duty and rightness and justice and belief, but out of fear, anger and genetics. And that seems wrong to me on several levels.


You're right. It's a bit of eavesdropping and a single floating-outside-the-window. But even then... it's creepy, unSuperman and really, really wrong. If we assume he genuinely doesn't know the child is his (also a bit unSuperman), then he's a total.dick - he returns to find Lois happy, with child and (ostensibly) child's father... and proceeds to try and split them up..!

Swings and roundabouts - I see a necessary (if overlong) journey of self-discovery and learning, destined to teach himneverythingnhe needs to know to set him on the path that will alleviate thebsuffering he has just felt from affecting more people in the wider world, vs. a lengthy suicide mission of no purpose to find out nothing from nothingness. What could he possibly even hoped to have learned/found..? And, to expand that question: what could he have hoped to learn that he didn't already learn from the crystal recordings..?! It makes no sense. At all. There's healrhy debate and doubt to be aired over the selfishness (or not) and point (or not) - and time taken - of his trip to create the Fortress. But is there any argument for flying to (where) Krypton (isn't)..?


Absolutely right. And well done for including that plural "ones". :)

However - and opinions certainly vary, and that's fine - but what the different iterations of all these characters (and this is why I thoroughly enjoy the proper-Elseworld takes on these characters also) share is their core. You KNOW how Superman/Batman/WW/other will act in certain situations. You know Batman is paranoid (and right), that Superman is honest and so on. Which is why when a version seems off, people react so vehemently. "Superman wouldn't' do that." Batman should never have had guns on the Batwing in 1989. Shouldn't have pushed henchmen off the tower. Wouldn't have let witty banter reveal his identity to Catwoman. And Superman would never kill Zod.

And you're right again - there are other theoretical/actual deaths thatbcan be laid at his door in prior films/comics/etc., but a major difference is deliberateness and intent. There's a suspension of disbelief over collateral damage (c.f. the ire at Returms for having him fight near a city/offices) and the unspoken implication that however many buildings fall, everyone survives. That's patently unrealistic. (See also Civil War.) But that probability, however inevitable, still differs from snapping Zod's neck. See also Frank Miller's Dark Knight - even when faced with it being pinned on him anyway, Batman won't kill the Joker. Decades of death on his conscience because he doesn't support death as a punishment; much mental conflict and theoretical-ethical debate... but they don't (deliberately/ever) kill.

Re: The 9th Annual Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge Discussion Thread
 

There are so many great ethical and philosophical points raised by these kind of stories, too. And they sink in regardless of whether one notices it or not. The whole idea of Arkham Aslyum being a good idea; the incredible arrogance of anyone thinking a perpetual prison like the Phantom Zone is anything other than a virtual concentration camp; the disconnect between superheroes' intervention in big and little events and non-intervention in others... it all allows for fascinating discussions of fascist ideals, checks & balances, power relationships and notions of Good. Lex Luthor is right to be worried. Batman should kill the Joker. Clark Kent is lying to everyone. Wonder Woman should mind her own business and leave America alone. Etc.


Or, it's just some entertaining works of fiction.

Or both. :)

Re: The 9th Annual Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge Discussion Thread
 

But you're right, it does seem like the modern trend in movies and TV is toward lots of people being in on the secret, or no secret at all.

Did she take him out of school?

I took a quick look at that part of the movie again, and I don't know where I came up with 15 years, it was only 12 years.
Took a look at this one too. Here's the highlights in order:

Re: The 9th Annual Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge Discussion Thread
 

"Action" Jor-El :lol: -


This is what I've been saying. Movie Superman has been a dick all along. It's nothing new. :lol:

I found my post where we discussed this before. The funny thing is I'd forgotten that her new boyfriend in Superman Returns was a pilot who flew a seaplane, just like the guy in Lois Lane #24. It's almost too much to be a coincidence.
I have no clue what they were thinking there. Maybe he was looking for Argo City. There are deleted scenes of him flying around through the debris field and becoming sick from the Kryptonite which I assume they left out because it didn't make any sense for him to go to the source of Kryptonite to begin with.

Maybe they give a reason in the novelization or the comic book adaptation (I guess they did one). If there's a commentary track on the BD I guess I could listen to that. I'm not sure I care enough to find out the reason though.
I don't remember much objection to the guns on the Batwing (or the guns and bombs on the Batmobile) back in '89.
Except in that one comic where he did. :)

Re: The 9th Annual Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge Discussion Thread
 

And the thing that triggered his lifetime battle against Superman was that one time as kids when Superman was over at his house while Lex was playing with his science lab and Superman made a dumb mistake that caused Lex to become permanently bald. I'm assuming they later changed the reason for the feud but this is how it started in my old sources of Superman.

I liked the Batman Detective Comics and Spider-Man as a kid. I tried reading some newer stuff but I can't get over the artwork. I'm used to 80s and earlier where people looked like people and less like anime characters. It's just too much a change for this old man.

As for what I've been watching, I finished the last 3 episodes of Enterprise last night. The show ended up being a lot better than it started out as. It wasn't until the 2nd season where characters started being developed and plots were starting to develop between episodes. Season 3 would suck if you didn't care for that entire plot but then I liked how season 4 shifted to a bunch of two part episodes.

Didn't care for the cgi Gorn that didn't look a whole lot like the original but I get why they didn't go with the original. I also thought the ship was a bit too advanced looking compared with the ship from the original series, which is supposed to be an upgraded model. The love story was a bit much but it also makes sense they hit it harder to get it where it needed to be with the show ending.

I do like how they cleared up why Klingons looked like Klingons during most of this series and then had an arc that showed why they look different in the original series.

Re: The 9th Annual Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge Discussion Thread
 

I knew asking about Man of Steel would open up a can of worms. :lol: For the record, I thought the movie was fine when I saw it in theaters, and I liked how they went all-out sci-fi action on Krypton, but I've never had a desire to see it again. But then I also thought Superman Returns was entertaining. :shrug:

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I had a similar experience Friday. I took the 3 grandkids who live by me on a day trip to Blanchard Springs Caverns for some underground fun. It's a 3 hour drive from my house. Here are some photos of the area we were in (these came from their site - I may update it with some I took later):

It's currently the only cavern system open on National Forest lands managed properties. All others are closed to prevent and slow the spread of White Nose Syndrome, a condition that is killing hundreds of thousands of bats throughout the northeastern United States. The rangers told us it *does* affect one bat breed in Arkansas but it's a "non social" breed and so it's not yet enough of a concern to close the caves to visitors.

If you're ever close enough to take one of the tours I highly recommend it.

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Cool, and this seems relevant to the challenge. :)

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I just learned all this talk killed Lois Lane on Sunday.

I'm not sure about that. I'm over on the west coast and we still have open caves but we also have the warnings about white noise syndrome.

I haven't gone since I was a kid but one of the only two memories I have of it are this one tunnel before the end of the tour and the walls were completely covered with daddy long leg looking spiders.

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I remember the origin of Lex Luthor in Challenge Of The Superfriends was told in exactly that way.

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It made me want to watch the 1959 version of Journey to the Center of the Earth. :)

It's a favorite so I may still break it out. I know my grandkids haven't seen it.

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I just finished an interesting lecture on the Sumerians and Planet X, by Zechariah Sitchin on Snag Films. It kind of reminded me of Ancient Aliens.

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I'm going by what they told us on the tour and this from their web page:
It could be those near you are not on "National Forest lands." :shrug:

When I was a kid that would have totally freaked me out!

Re: The 9th Annual Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge Discussion Thread
 

That's probably it. One of my kids went to the caves a few months back but the spiders weren't there for her. It wasn't so bad as a kid because we were in a good sized tour group and the spiders weren't dropping from the ceiling or anything.

I was exploring the jungle at work in Okinawa and we ran across a dirt bunker from WWII. There was a dirt tunnel that went into it. That time we found a room full of bats instead of spiders.

For a spider story, I was at work and we all went out one night looking for an abandoned building. My boss came about 2 feet from walking face first into a spider that had made it's web between a couple trees. The web was about 3 feet across and the spider was full hand sized.

It might have been that. I loved that show as a kid.