Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
04-25-13, 08:47 PM
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Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
I'm at a loss as to why the studios would make so many of their titles available on Netflix, Amazon Prime etc., for $7.99 month. It seems like suicide (business wise).
How many consumers would want to pay $10 or even $5 for a DVD when they can choose from 14,000 titles (amazon) for $6.59/month ($79/yr).
I see the download price to rent a single title is $2.99 (overpriced), but the price for subscription services seem like the studios are declaring their older titles are next to worthless.
I posted a previous thread about the decline of DVD sales when I had no idea how many titles were available from services like Netflix (I assumed it was like 300+ titles per month)
No idea they were offering 13,000 to 14,000 titles for $7.99/mo I am STUNNED. I can't imagine paying more than $1 for another use DVD again. ..And that would be rare.
How many consumers would want to pay $10 or even $5 for a DVD when they can choose from 14,000 titles (amazon) for $6.59/month ($79/yr).
I see the download price to rent a single title is $2.99 (overpriced), but the price for subscription services seem like the studios are declaring their older titles are next to worthless.
I posted a previous thread about the decline of DVD sales when I had no idea how many titles were available from services like Netflix (I assumed it was like 300+ titles per month)
No idea they were offering 13,000 to 14,000 titles for $7.99/mo I am STUNNED. I can't imagine paying more than $1 for another use DVD again. ..And that would be rare.
04-25-13, 09:14 PM
#2
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
And now you understand why the market for physical media is quickly disappearing. Teenagers of today will likely never develop the large home media libraries (unless it was pirated from torrents) when they become adults in society.
04-25-13, 09:30 PM
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
Phantom; This was definitely one of my WTF? moments. Total disbelief. I see movies like Cool Hand Luke, Once Upon A Time In America, Dances With Wolves, Chinatown, and thousands more, etc. etc. etc. available for viewing for $7.99 month.
Do I want to buy one DVD for $7.99 or do I want to choose from thousands for $7.99? I think I've been getting ripped off at Redbox.
Do I want to buy one DVD for $7.99 or do I want to choose from thousands for $7.99? I think I've been getting ripped off at Redbox.
04-25-13, 09:50 PM
#4
Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
They are getting big checks for the streaming rights. Paramount and others got huge deals especially when it was an exclusive deal.
I personally dislike the streaming experience and only kept disks at netflix when they changed the pricing structure.
I personally dislike the streaming experience and only kept disks at netflix when they changed the pricing structure.
04-25-13, 10:05 PM
#5
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
Ii think i pay 18-20 dollars a month for streaming services, between netflix, hulu, and now Synapse(which i just started doing but for some of the films that are on there for $5 a month, so far its pretty cool). I don't really count what i pay for Amazon Prime since that's once a year payment and I started doing that for the free 2 day shipping/cheaper next day shipping. I use it as a replacement for rental purposes. I still have the 1 disc out a month through netflix so i can still get dvds that way, but if it wasn't for streaming through all those services I would not have discovered a lot of great tv shows or seen a lot of movies I've seen. I watched "Ink" probably 20 times on netflix and then finally bought the blu-ray. If it wasn't for amazon prime i wouldn't own all 10 seasons of Red Vs. Blue. The only download I've paid full price on is Wreck it Ralph and that was just because it was available 2-3 weeks earlier and I did buy it on Blu-ray the day it came out.
I understand how it maybe hurting physical media sales because of the convenience and lower cost, and a lot of people may not know how much better quality blu-ray is than streaming. I know i really didn't pay that much attention until i watched one of the seasons of RVB on dvd then watched the same one that night on Amazon and the differences were quite noticeable, and again that was dvd not blu-ray.
I may be in the minority but in my case streaming is helping the dvd/blu-ray market just because i can't afford to blind buy the way i used to when i first purchased a dvd player, so i'm watching more movies which leads me to go out and buy more dvds.
I understand how it maybe hurting physical media sales because of the convenience and lower cost, and a lot of people may not know how much better quality blu-ray is than streaming. I know i really didn't pay that much attention until i watched one of the seasons of RVB on dvd then watched the same one that night on Amazon and the differences were quite noticeable, and again that was dvd not blu-ray.
I may be in the minority but in my case streaming is helping the dvd/blu-ray market just because i can't afford to blind buy the way i used to when i first purchased a dvd player, so i'm watching more movies which leads me to go out and buy more dvds.
04-25-13, 10:06 PM
#6
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
Don't let the inflated numbers fool you. Amazon claims around 15,000 titles. But the actual number of movies is closer to 2,000. They pad the numbers by counting each video (including TV show episodes) as one title. Netflix does the same thing. Here's more info:
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/streaming-t...g-numbers.html
Subscription services are awesome if you're just looking for something to watch. There's a lot of great stuff to choose from. But it's not that useful if you want to watch a specific title. I'd say probably 80% of the time the particular movie I want isn't available for streaming on Netflix or Amazon.
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/streaming-t...g-numbers.html
Subscription services are awesome if you're just looking for something to watch. There's a lot of great stuff to choose from. But it's not that useful if you want to watch a specific title. I'd say probably 80% of the time the particular movie I want isn't available for streaming on Netflix or Amazon.
04-25-13, 10:11 PM
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
If I watch one movie per day, that's 30 movies for $7.99. About 25¢ per movie. It seems like the studios would be better off selling DVDs in cardboard sleeves for $1.00 each.
Or maybe they should put out movie packs like Mill Creeks' 50 movie public domain packs for $19.98 It would atleast maintain the perception that these older titles are not totally worthless.
Last edited by dvdshonna; 04-25-13 at 10:50 PM.
04-25-13, 11:14 PM
#8
Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_677193.html
Netflix Inc. will pay nearly $1 billion during the next five years for the online streaming rights to movies from Paramount, Lionsgate and MGM
This deal was signed in 2010. This is an example of the money involved.
I personally don't find the content worthless because it is streaming. It is a different experience that is not worth as much to me as physical media. The titles available change all the time as well.
As you can see they are having a hard time turning down money when it only affects streaming rights.
I think it affects cable and sat. tv as much or more.
Netflix Inc. will pay nearly $1 billion during the next five years for the online streaming rights to movies from Paramount, Lionsgate and MGM
This deal was signed in 2010. This is an example of the money involved.
I personally don't find the content worthless because it is streaming. It is a different experience that is not worth as much to me as physical media. The titles available change all the time as well.
As you can see they are having a hard time turning down money when it only affects streaming rights.
I think it affects cable and sat. tv as much or more.
Last edited by g; 04-25-13 at 11:32 PM.
04-26-13, 01:07 AM
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
g; I overstated when I said totally worthless. When Redbox started renting DVDs for $1.00, it seemed like DVDs were overpriced (purchase price).
When I see DVDs available for streaming at pennies on the dollar, DVDs seem overpriced even at $5.00
I buy and sell used DVDs in quantity. I've seen the price collapse in the last 3 years to the point where I won't pay more than 50 cents for most DVDs in bulk. I won't touch blurays.
After hearing about the 12th person state, "I don't need these DVDs any more. I have netflix", I knew something was wrong with the market for DVDs. People are dumping their collections.
When I see DVDs available for streaming at pennies on the dollar, DVDs seem overpriced even at $5.00
I buy and sell used DVDs in quantity. I've seen the price collapse in the last 3 years to the point where I won't pay more than 50 cents for most DVDs in bulk. I won't touch blurays.
After hearing about the 12th person state, "I don't need these DVDs any more. I have netflix", I knew something was wrong with the market for DVDs. People are dumping their collections.
04-26-13, 01:24 AM
#10
Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
I don't think Netflix is completely responsible for the drop in prices. A bigger issue is the studios have been dumping a huge amount of their products at bargain basement prices as remainders to places like oldies.com, ollies, big lots, and wholesalers who sell on ebay and amazon. The studios have greatly undercut the prices themselves.
Last edited by g; 04-26-13 at 01:37 AM.
04-26-13, 01:51 AM
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
g; I agree. It's not just netflix. The middle class is collapsing/collapsed. The U.S. is becomming a 3rd world country. People are looking for cheap entertainment. Redbox and netflix are cheap.
04-26-13, 02:17 AM
#12
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
After hearing about the 12th person state, "I don't need these DVDs any more. I have netflix", I knew something was wrong with the market for DVDs. People are dumping their collections.
Don't know what to say to those who sell used DVDs though- I've never bought ANY used media just for the purpose of saving money, as I'm an obsessive collector and new copies can usually be found for not much more, or sometimes even LESS than what used copies sell for.
04-26-13, 02:40 AM
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
I just want to smack people who say things like that. Wait til those movies get taken OFF Netflix, then let's see who doesn't need the DVDs! While the quality of Netflix has admittedly been improving (I remember how pathetic it was when they started), it certainly can't match a Blu-Ray disc or even a DVD in some cases.
"I don't need these DVDs anymore. I have netflix". I assume they are claiming netflix provides all the entertainment they need or have time to watch for $7.99 month.
Buying DVDs in bulk lots, I have no need for streaming but I believe it is contributing (atleast partially) to the decline/collapse in prices.
04-26-13, 03:07 AM
#14
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
Subscription services are awesome if you're just looking for something to watch. There's a lot of great stuff to choose from. But it's not that useful if you want to watch a specific title. I'd say probably 80% of the time the particular movie I want isn't available for streaming on Netflix or Amazon.
That said, I do use Amazon Prime for TV shows that I want to catch up on. My favorite network show is The Good Wife, and I was going to get a back season or two until I realized it was free on Prime. I'd like to support the show, but...
Catalog: Netflix streaming, Amazon Prime
New releases: Netflix discs, Amazon paid VOD, Redbox kiosks
(I added "kiosks" because I know Redbox now has streaming, but I was looking at the selection with a friend and it was pretty meager.)
04-26-13, 03:20 AM
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
This is another thing people don't understand. I made the example of The Good Wife earlier, but I'm aware that it may not always be available on Prime, and if I really want to own it as part of my collection, I'll be safer if I actually buy it. But the people who just "want something to watch" may not care. Or what if a service goes out of business? In the comics forum, we've been talking about building up a digital collection through Comixology, but that's not guaranteed to always be there. Then what happens to your collection?
04-26-13, 03:48 AM
#16
Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
Streaming services can serve as a good replacement for overpriced cable/satellite services and/or to easily sample titles you are interested in to determine if a physical copy purchase is warranted. I can see dumping either for a couple of the "better" streaming services but *not* as a physical media replacement. None of the streaming services will ever be able to replace a large personal collection of titles. The simple fact that titles come and go precludes using any streaming service to replace physical media for favorite titles. Now if any of these services will guarantee that *all* movies/TV shows that have received or will receive a physical media release in any digital format (DVD/MOD/BR/etc) will be 100% available for that ~$8 monthly fee until the day I die I'll consider dumping my physical collection for a monthly subscription but not before. The other side of that is my wife hates the "clutter" of a physical collection and would *love* it if I'd dump mine for such services.
Don't know what to say to those who sell used DVDs though- I've never bought ANY used media just for the purpose of saving money, as I'm an obsessive collector and new copies can usually be found for not much more, or sometimes even LESS than what used copies sell for.
04-26-13, 12:50 PM
#17
Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
Here's an example of why you do *not* want to 100% rely on streaming services.
List of expiring Netflix titles (stolen from another forum and is skewed towards horror/sci-fi):
Or just check here for a full list.
I own *lots* of titles on that list. If I dumped my collection and went streaming I'd be SOL.
List of expiring Netflix titles (stolen from another forum and is skewed towards horror/sci-fi):
Spoiler:
Or just check here for a full list.
I own *lots* of titles on that list. If I dumped my collection and went streaming I'd be SOL.
04-26-13, 01:15 PM
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
LOL ....So studios set a movie's value at pennies with streaming.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see Wal-Mart shelves stocked with $3.00 titles within a year or two. Last time I looked they had a decent selection priced at $5.00
I wouldn't be surprised if we see Wal-Mart shelves stocked with $3.00 titles within a year or two. Last time I looked they had a decent selection priced at $5.00
04-26-13, 02:09 PM
#19
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
As I may have said before, streaming services can actually HELP disc sales- if I watch a movie on Netflix in mediocre quality, and know it won't even be on there forever, if I like it I'll go get the disc if it's available. On the other hand I've watched some movies there which I've considered buying, and decided I didn't like them enough to do that.
04-26-13, 02:27 PM
#21
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
The problem with the current streaming model is that it requires multiple services if you really want a wide and deep catalog to choose from. All of them now pay for exclusive rights to some content, which means that you really need two and probably three different streaming providers to cover most of what is available. The rights are also constantly changing, so movies will disappear on one provider and pop up somewhere else.
04-26-13, 02:30 PM
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
Alan Smithee; I'm not familiar with streaming. How long are specific titles normally available?
Most noticeable is when I look at Amazon titles. Like "Once Upon A Time In America"
Buy New: $16.95 Used: $1.00
Amazon Instant Video Rent: $2.99 Buy: $9.99 Amazon Prime $0.00
Hmmmm....So many choices. I think I'll pass on the new $16.95 DVD.
Most noticeable is when I look at Amazon titles. Like "Once Upon A Time In America"
Buy New: $16.95 Used: $1.00
Amazon Instant Video Rent: $2.99 Buy: $9.99 Amazon Prime $0.00
Hmmmm....So many choices. I think I'll pass on the new $16.95 DVD.
04-26-13, 02:38 PM
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
04-26-13, 02:49 PM
#24
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
The studio is guaranteed a base income from the deal plus anything else worked out, such as an amount each time it's watched.
The studio isn't guaranteed my money on the latest Resident Evil movie, even if it's $5.
04-26-13, 03:30 PM
#25
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Re: Subscriptions Services Destroying DVD/Bluray Market
While there is validity to the concerns of titles disappearing from an online/digital aggregate, make no mistake - this is the future of content delivery. If NF were to ever go away, something would replace it. There will never be a time in any of our lives where this type of model does not exist (I guess notwithstanding any nuclear holocausts, mummy apocalypse, alien invasions, etc). Just like all those OOP DVD titles that got re-released on DVD again! or Blu, or digital. Once something becomes 1s and 0s it's pretty hard to ever erase. Not to mention, digital preservation of great films (and not so great ones) is a problem we are working to solve.
When a title disappears from Netflix, I have other options to track it down if needed (other online services, BD, used, etc), but I find that I use NF primarily for catalog titles, things I would have never bothered seeing or to check out some new releases. I've also started renting from Amazon on occasion (also a Prime member). It's been nice to cut back on films I was buying to just "see again" or to have for a rainy day and also to make a lot more space (1000+ titles takes up a lot of room).
Don't get me wrong... solely streaming? PQ isn't there, internet isn't always working, etc. I love commentaries and special features, and for titles that I adore, I am going to own a physical copy if I can. But I certainly don't feel the need to have physical copies anymore and I'm also not concerned about OOP like I used to be. The infrastructural issues will get sorted, PQ will get better, internet connections will become faster and more reliable.
Ditched cable almost 8 years ago now. Don't even notice. Stopped buying tons of movies about 2-3 years ago. Seems to be working out for me quite well.
When a title disappears from Netflix, I have other options to track it down if needed (other online services, BD, used, etc), but I find that I use NF primarily for catalog titles, things I would have never bothered seeing or to check out some new releases. I've also started renting from Amazon on occasion (also a Prime member). It's been nice to cut back on films I was buying to just "see again" or to have for a rainy day and also to make a lot more space (1000+ titles takes up a lot of room).
Don't get me wrong... solely streaming? PQ isn't there, internet isn't always working, etc. I love commentaries and special features, and for titles that I adore, I am going to own a physical copy if I can. But I certainly don't feel the need to have physical copies anymore and I'm also not concerned about OOP like I used to be. The infrastructural issues will get sorted, PQ will get better, internet connections will become faster and more reliable.
Ditched cable almost 8 years ago now. Don't even notice. Stopped buying tons of movies about 2-3 years ago. Seems to be working out for me quite well.
Last edited by notkevinbacon; 04-26-13 at 03:44 PM.
