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Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

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Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Old 03-10-13, 07:42 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
Seems those people would like us to see their movies in the best possible quality as well, which ISN'T through streaming!
You really think that? Exposure and $$$ is the bottom line.
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Old 03-10-13, 07:54 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Exposure and $$$ is the bottom line.
I'm sure for those just starting out, they might be glad to have their movie on Netflix if that means more people will see it, but I'm talking about those who already have enough $$$. One of the "big shots" should say "Forget seeing my movie in compressed crap form- you're going to watch it on Blu-Ray or not watch it at all!"
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Old 03-10-13, 08:04 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
I'm sure for those just starting out, they might be glad to have their movie on Netflix if that means more people will see it, but I'm talking about those who already have enough $$$. One of the "big shots" should say "Forget seeing my movie in compressed crap form- you're going to watch it on Blu-Ray or not watch it at all!"
Nobody is going to say that. VHS/DVD suck, only watch my flick in a theater!!
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Old 03-10-13, 09:34 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
Seems those people would like us to see their movies in the best possible quality as well, which ISN'T through streaming! How about Michael Bay giving his latest crap-fest a Blu-Ray 3D exclusive release a month before it's available any other way, promoting it as seeing it the way he intended?
Maybe this is what the studios need to do to get people to start buying physical media again. It seems like the studios just aren't pushing Blu-ray the same way they did after the format war. It's almost like when Blu-ray sales didn't start rapidly increasing, the studio execs just threw their hands up and said "nobody's buying Blu-ray so nobody wants physical media anymore" and threw in the towel without really trying to push it.
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Old 03-11-13, 06:46 AM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

People stopped buying discs well before Bluray "won the war". Folks forget that. It's also difficult for the studios to push Bluray when a large segment of the buying public doesn't feel like there's a compelling reason to upgrade. Bluray was never going to be the tsunami, it was always going to be a slow burn.
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Old 03-11-13, 08:43 AM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Right now I can stream Netflix from three countries in HD. Not to mention some of the competitors. I have a huge Blur-ray and DVD collection that I will keep most of. But I`ve sold off about 100 titles in the past month. Once I started collecting movies as files, the physical concept just seemed ridiculous. I have several hard drives of content that all fit under my desk.
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Old 03-11-13, 09:10 AM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

what I don't understand about streaming, is the cost. If I can get a physical copy of the movie for almost the same price, I'm going for the physical copy of the movie.

If they lower the price to about $2.99 a view or even lower, then I'll consider it.
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Old 03-11-13, 09:46 AM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Netflix Streaming is only 8 bucks a month here in Canada. With a little software patch, I can stream all of their US and UK content. So, it's cheap if you don't rent or buy off the Playstation store, etc. In that case, I'd pick up a disc.
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Old 03-11-13, 10:09 AM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Originally Posted by BobO'Link View Post
That really gets me on streaming. I just don't understand why anyone would "buy" and pay as much or *more* for a digital copy stored online when physical media is available. It's the same for music. Recently I've noticed digital online copies of movies and music are frequently higher priced than the physical version. Since there's *no* warehouse, plastic box, paper insert, shipping, etc. I would think a digital copy should cost no more than *half* that of a physical copy. Of course I'm the antithesis of what the media moguls want as I'm already on the fence with MOD and once physical copies go away (which I feel is what the industry would truly like to see occur), so will my money.
Same here. Why buy something I could potentially lose access to when I could have a physical copy that doesn't rely on having to have the internet? While some items can be downloaded before, there's others that you can't and also the other times you are going on a trip somewhere where there's no access and you forgot to download it beforehand. All the extra hassle for around the same price.

Other issues, which you don't get with actually owning something:

A. The company loses the rights and pulls the content from consumers. Off the top of my head, this happened with Amazon

B. The company goes out of business, which means you lose access to everything you bought. Those sad folks that did the mp3s from Yahoo fell into that group and they got lucky that a plan was worked out for them because initially they were just told tough luck.

C. Your account is banned/disabled/closed, for whatever reason, either legitimately or illegitimately. Let's say you're suspected of cheating on Steam. You lose your account and everything you've bought.

Google was shutting down google account on people using Google+ that weren't using real names. Not only did they lose whatever they bought at the store but they also lost their email accounts and everything else associated with that Google account.

There was also the story a few month back where Bruce Willis was pissed off at Apple because if he died, he couldn't leave the music to his kid. Something which doesn't happen when you have a CD.

Streaming is cool when it's used as a rental service but something like Netflix or Full Moon, where you have the option to stream as much as you want for a single price. The only time I've ever rented or bought something digital was when I had credits for that stuff and even then, I'll still buy the physical media because I still don't really consider the digital stuff as something I'll always own.
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Old 03-11-13, 01:12 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Originally Posted by Mister Peepers View Post
...There was also the story a few month back where Bruce Willis was pissed off at Apple because if he died, he couldn't leave the music to his kid. Something which doesn't happen when you have a CD...
Exactly. If people actually took the time to read the fine print on those agreements they'd find they actually purchased a limited license for viewing/listening to the product which can *not* be sold, given away, inherited, etc. One *could* pass on the account by giving the login details to someone but that could also entail the email account established for that account which may (probably) has dozens of other "services" tied to it thus causing all kinds of problems. Sure... you can possibly change the email address on the product you're passing on to someone else but you're still purchasing a limited license and *not* an actual product. Either way you violate the terms of the agreement and open the recipient up for possible legal action and/or account closure.

Yes, you can download the file(s) (sometimes depending on the service) but it's all about "ownership" and who controls those files in the "cloud", especially those that can not be downloaded. While you're at it you may as well add eBooks to the list as they suffer from the same restrictions.

Last edited by BobO'Link; 03-11-13 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 03-11-13, 02:18 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

I have been buying music compact discs since 1988 or so. I still have all of those CDs and they are still playable. (Jeez... that's TWENTY-FIVE YEARS!)

Now, if a streaming service had existed back then, and I bought albums from IBM's music service that were DRMed to an account, would I still be able to listen to them today? Would my entire music library still be available for me listen to in 2013?

That's my problem with things like Comixology, Kindle, Amazon video, and all of these other services that sell DRMed digital content. Doesn't matter if it's books, comics, music, or video. If you're being sold content that's chained to a particular device or service, then when that service goes away, so does your library.
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Old 03-11-13, 03:53 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Right now I can stream Netflix from three countries in HD.
Hate to break this to you, but what Netflix calls HD and what is REAL HD are NOT the same thing.
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Old 03-11-13, 05:37 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
Hate to break this to you, but what Netflix calls HD and what is REAL HD are NOT the same thing.
According to what I've read, they stream 720p and HD video is video with a higher resolution than standard, which would make Netflix HD. Even if it isn't 720, as long as it's higher than standard, it's still classified at HD.
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Old 03-11-13, 10:36 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Originally Posted by mdnitoil View Post
People stopped buying discs well before Bluray "won the war". Folks forget that. It's also difficult for the studios to push Bluray when a large segment of the buying public doesn't feel like there's a compelling reason to upgrade. Bluray was never going to be the tsunami, it was always going to be a slow burn.
If people stopped buying disks prior to blu-ray winning the format war, which would've been 2008, then I don't see why everyone is getting bent out of shape now over streaming. If people stopped buying discs prior to 2008, then streaming isn't what stopped them. Maybe the public got fed up with the studios constantly re-releasing the same movie a half-dozen times? Or maybe they realize they were buying movies that they were never going to watch again? It happened with me and with my uncle. My uncle and I are both huge movie buffs, but it just got to the point where we were buying movies we would watch once and never think about again. Once we both started doing Netflix, our movie buying vastly decreased (unintentionally my TCM watching also decreased) because instead of buying a movie we wanted to see, we could just throw it into our netflix queue, watch it, and then decide whether we wanted to purchase it or not. With both of us, 9 times out of 10, we're satisfied with that initial viewing. Now, if it's a movie I end up really liking (it has happened before, I discovered Duck, You Sucker and Once Upon a Time in the West this way) then yes I will purchase the DVD or Blu-ray.

I mean, some of the posters here don't take into consideration that by streaming movies, a person may discover a movie he/she might really love and end up purchasing it on DVD or Blu-ray. Just because a person streams movies doesn't mean that's the only way he/she watches movies.
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Old 03-11-13, 11:30 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
Hate to break this to you, but what Netflix calls HD and what is REAL HD are NOT the same thing.
You're not breaking anything.

About a month ago they started Super HD which is getting closer to 1080p (if it's not already). It's only a matter of time before most of the content is that quality across the board. Obviously, we'll be streaming full HD in no time. All the resources and money are being put toward making this better.

I'm amazed that everyone isn't ecstatic over streaming capability. We are now able to get NEW movies instantly delivered in high quality to our homes. I don't know about you, but I've been waiting my whole life for this. Not going to complain.
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Old 03-12-13, 12:09 AM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Vudu HDX says it's 1080p, but whatever the case I STILL see compression artifacts on it, plus my internet service isn't fast enough to play it without stopping every few minutes to buffer. Its standard HD works with my service and it's good for what it is, but it's no replacement for real discs. I sure as hell won't be 'buying' any movies on Vudu instead of disc. Netflix quality was pretty awful when it started out, but admittedly it keeps getting better. It's a great value, but again isn't a substitute for discs (besides which, many titles get taken off-line after they've been on there a while anyways. It's like getting a cable channel that plays certain movies many times a week, then doesn't show them again for years.)

Also, I have FAR more problems with my internet service where I'm not able to watch ANYTHING sometimes, while that's happened ZERO times with my disc players (at worst, I've had to use a backup machine if my 'good' one is having issues.)
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Old 03-12-13, 02:49 AM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Originally Posted by indiephantom View Post
...I'm amazed that everyone isn't ecstatic over streaming capability. We are now able to get NEW movies instantly delivered in high quality to our homes. I don't know about you, but I've been waiting my whole life for this. Not going to complain.
Not everyone has internet speeds fast enough to support streaming to mulitple devices simultaneously. Couple that with the data caps many services are implementing *because* of streaming and streaming becomes nothing more than a fair substitute for driving to the rental store. Even then with a RedBox on just about every corner I'd rather rent for a buck than deal with the vaguaries of streaming for the one or two titles I might actually rent in a month. Essentially streaming is OK as a "preview" type service to see if I really want to own something but I'd *still* rather own a physical copy. After all, films/programs drop off Netflix (and others) all the time. If you want to sell me a DRM free digital copy that I can download to a local server *and* burn a copy to physical media of my choice for less than 50% the cost of that pressed disk I'll give it some serious consideration but not until that time. It all comes down to that "watch what *I* want *when* I want" paradigm. There's *no* streaming or cloud service that can do that yet. I'd be willing to bet that no more than 50% of my collection can be streamed from any single pay service.
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Old 03-12-13, 07:05 AM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Your average person does not care about quality, they care about convenience. DVD didn't overtake VHS because it was better quality (which is a nice additional bonus) it did it because it's more convenient than VHS (no rewinding, smaller space, sell through, etc) which is why Blu Ray hasn't really come too far out of the niche and most people don't see any difference between DVD and Blu Ray, since it's not any easier to use.

Streaming is easier to use for most people, and most people also don't like storing things.
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Old 03-12-13, 09:15 AM
  #44  
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Originally Posted by BobO'Link View Post
That really gets me on streaming. I just don't understand why anyone would "buy" and pay as much or *more* for a digital copy stored online when physical media is available.
My brother buys streaming movies. His kid has destroyed their collection of Disney and Family movies on disc. So he gave up on DVD/BD and switched to buying streaming copies. And he's been really happy with it.

In the case of Wreck-It Ralph, that was a limited time price while it was exclusive to streaming. Right now the streaming version is $14.99/$19.99 (SD/HD) and the disc version is $19.99/$27.85 (DVD/BD) at Amazon.
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Old 03-12-13, 09:18 AM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
Vudu HDX says it's 1080p, but whatever the case I STILL see compression artifacts on it, plus my internet service isn't fast enough to play it without stopping every few minutes to buffer. Its standard HD works with my service and it's good for what it is, but it's no replacement for real discs. I sure as hell won't be 'buying' any movies on Vudu instead of disc. Netflix quality was pretty awful when it started out, but admittedly it keeps getting better. It's a great value, but again isn't a substitute for discs (besides which, many titles get taken off-line after they've been on there a while anyways. It's like getting a cable channel that plays certain movies many times a week, then doesn't show them again for years.)

Also, I have FAR more problems with my internet service where I'm not able to watch ANYTHING sometimes, while that's happened ZERO times with my disc players (at worst, I've had to use a backup machine if my 'good' one is having issues.)
To clarify, I agree with your points about buying movies. My original post was really just about streaming which is more like a substitute for renting. If I really want to own the title, I'm likely going to buy the BD at this point. Prices for downloading-to-own are too high since I'm getting nothing apart from the movie and I would likely have to burn my own disc.

So, I guess I need to differentiate between streaming services and Download-to-own. The latter doesn't appeal to me. I was just making a case for my streaming experiences which, apparently, have been better than most people's. I do see artifacts and some problems with the image occasionally, but it's minor compared to the amount of content I'm able to stream for the price. I still buy a fair amount (none of HBO's series are likely to show up streaming anytime soon). So, I still support BD but I am hoping that streaming just keeps improving so that I can feel like I have an even "bigger" virtual collection.

Okay, rant over.
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Old 03-12-13, 10:29 AM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Originally Posted by S Galbraith IV View Post
My pal Stephen Bowie and I enjoyed a lively chat about streaming, physical media, and the future of home video.
It was an interesting article. But I wish there was someone to provide a pro-streaming counterpoint.

Also, I think part of your negative experiences are due to your equipment and location. It sounds like one person is living overseas and accessing US streaming services using a VPN. The other person is using the streaming apps on their Blu-ray player (which often suck at streaming). It doesn't surprise me that you guys were having problems. I think if you were in the US, or using a good streaming device (PS3, Xbox, Roku, AppleTV, etc), you might avoid some of those technical problems and have a better experience.

Last edited by TheBigDave; 03-12-13 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 03-12-13, 12:02 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Originally Posted by Lastdaysofrain View Post
Your average person does not care about quality, they care about convenience. DVD didn't overtake VHS because it was better quality (which is a nice additional bonus) it did it because it's more convenient than VHS (no rewinding, smaller space, sell through, etc) which is why Blu Ray hasn't really come too far out of the niche and most people don't see any difference between DVD and Blu Ray, since it's not any easier to use.

Streaming is easier to use for most people, and most people also don't like storing things.
I think this is a pretty good point, honestly, and right on.
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Old 03-12-13, 04:11 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Originally Posted by Lastdaysofrain View Post
DVD didn't overtake VHS because it was better quality (which is a nice additional bonus) it did it because it's more convenient than VHS (no rewinding, smaller space, sell through, etc)
While I don't dispute any of those facts, I think it well worth remembering how low a percentage of VHS tapes were meant to be sold to the public by the manufacturers. That percentage did increase in later days as titles like Home Alone and Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves proved that customers would buy non-cartoon VHS titles in huge quantities, but still, many many new VHS titles were priced over $100 MSRP. DVD had a great advantage in that it was the first time that so so so many more titles than in the past were priced to be sold to consumers rather than the rental stores.
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Old 03-12-13, 04:25 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Originally Posted by indiephantom View Post
Right now I can stream Netflix from three countries in HD. Not to mention some of the competitors. I have a huge Blur-ray and DVD collection that I will keep most of. But I`ve sold off about 100 titles in the past month. Once I started collecting movies as files, the physical concept just seemed ridiculous. I have several hard drives of content that all fit under my desk.
And when the hard drives fail or the files become corrupt ?....
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Old 03-12-13, 04:53 PM
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Re: Steaming, Physical Media, and the Future of Home Video

Streaming is easier to use for most people, and most people also don't like storing things.
I don't see how it's easier to use for 'most people', given that these are the same people who couldn't set the clock on their VCRs. I'm more tech-savvy than the average person (though not as much with computer-related stuff), and have gotten very frustrated at streaming services not working due to an internet connection issue, so I can only imagine how the 'average person' deals with it. True that when it's working it's fairly easy to use.

True on people not liking to store stuff, witness those who don't even put discs back in their cases! Though I can see these people also losing their collection if they forget their password and just give up.
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