What about adding a "Movie That OUGHT to be in the Criterion Collection" item to the checklist? Because the Criterion Challenge is about the art of film and the participation of the viewer in the cinematic experience, it would be interesting, IMO, if everyone could sit on the Criterion acquisition team for 2 hours and nominate/ watch a film that they think belongs in the collection, like Truffaut's Day for Night, or Bela Tarr's Werckmeister Harmonies.

I've come very close to suggesting this myself several times. One thing I would add is that if we did this, each of us should be required to write about why our pick is Criterion-worthy. It's not enough to just say, "Well, Persona is an Ingmar Bergman film and he's all over the Criterion Collection." I'm not saying we should have to write a scholarly essay, but there should be an effort to really scrutinize the movie at hand.

My chief concern with this, though, is that the discussion thread could easily be overrun with conversations about non-Criterion movies at the expense of actually discussing and debating the films that actually are part of the collection. I think we tend to number around 15-20 participants for this challenge. That's potentially 15-20 movies that could generate running discussions. All it takes is one person arguing that The Dark Knight is Criterion-worthy and someone else picking Goodburger and before you know it, no one even cares to talk about Wild Strawberries.

I strongly agree with the requirement to write at least a couple of sentences to support one's choice if one nominates a non-Criterion film. On your other point, though, I would not object to a discussion of a popular film like The Dark Knight if it brings out intelligent, impassioned posts advocating its inclusion. Besides, Christopher Nolan is already in the collection, so if someone wants to draw parallels between Following and The Dark Knight or Inception, I say go for it.

I think that one of the reasons that the Criterion challenge has so few participants is that it appears to make foreign and art films resemble bitter medicine that one chokes down because it is "good for you," not because it tastes good. Being more inclusive does not necessarily entail the discussion being dumbed down.

Watching Bresson or Bergman or Fellini is fundamentally, at least for me, fun. It is something that gives me a great deal of pleasure, and I think that as fans of serious cinema it's incumbent upon us to show folks who are less familiar with arthouse fare that watching more cerebral films is entertaining, and not something that must be endured. In the same way, many people use the expression "eating one's vegetables" as a metaphor for having to perform a necessary but unpleasant task. But if you could introduce a vegetable hater to a really good dish of spanokopita or a crunchy falafel and cucumber sandwich, you might turn that person into a vegetable fan.


A truly good film appeals as much to the senses as it does to the intellect. Witness the conclusion to Bela Tarr's Werckmeister Harmonies:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ffl19v5ZbyQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Even if you have never seen the film, just watching this scene as you listen to Mihály Vig's magnificent score is a profoundly moving experience. And if we can lure a fan of Good Burger into watching Bela Tarr or Hou Hsiao-Hsien or the Dardenne brothers by showing them the pure joy of film, then we will have done a mitzvah.

I've been very forthright about how I came to this challenge its first year very wary of The Criterion Collection. I felt it was a sort of elitist, advanced-level thing that was above my head. I was pretty intimidated by it, frankly, and the only reason I even tried it at all that first year was that I owned two Criterion DVDs (The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou and The Rock) and I figured that was as good a chance as any to gorge on their bonus content since bonus content for once was actually encouraged as part of a challenge. Plus, I figured I could stream some stuff from Netflix and help justify that month's subscription fee.

So, yeah, I totally get why the average DVD Talker steers clear of this challenge. (For that matter, the average DVD Talker steers clear of these challenges altogether!) I guess my question is, do we really think opening up this challenge to include non-Criterion titles and discussion is going to really bolster the challenge? Is anyone going to say, "Oh? I can talk about Grandma's Boy in the Criterion Challenge this year? I'm in!" At best, it may lead to us having increased discussion - but not likely of actual Criterion titles. Those who are going to discuss the collection as it is are already planning to participate. I'm very wary that this would be a constructive boon to the challenge so far as maximizing its appeal.

Still, I confess I am kind of curious to see a side conversation about the "Ought to Be"s. In fact, earlier today I was at the Laundro-mat and I began dashing off a list of movies I personally would select for inclusion! I do think there's some potential conversational merit to the idea, especially if it's tied directly into The Criterion Collection as it stands.

I never mentioned it but I felt similarly towards the most recent Historical Appreciation Challenge. I was thinking that if someone wasn't picking something obviously historically related, like a WWII film, that they should put a little effort into explaining why something like Night of the Living Dead should count. It may not seem like it counts for anything at first glance but there some noteworthy things about it that have inspired people since then.

I can dig it. Remember to mention this next year when we're planning that challenge.

I like the spirit of the idea for having films that "ought to be in the collection," but it's such a difficult thing to justify because there are many mainstream films from the early days of Laserdisc (and, of course, the Bay films from the early days of DVD). I'm thinking of the original premise of the challenge, to consume as much of the discs, supplements included as we can. This starts to drag us away from that premise.

If we did it, this would certainly be a given. There would have to be really strong justification. On the other hand, I don't think that Persona, The Godfather, or Good Burger isn't in the collection because they don't want them there (well, 2 out of 3...), but rather because of rights.

OK, then I'll say it. 5,000 words.

Last year it was 34 participants in the challenge, with something like 31-32 with actual entries. I'd be worried about the same, we end up arguing the merits of some of the films rather than focusing on the goal of the challenge. I think we could do the same kind of thing for the Academy Award Challenge (AA snubs?), but it might detract from the goals of that challenge as well.

I think this is the good that would come from such an idea; like you stated earlier, if it gets people drawing parallels, that's a good thing. I just wonder if we can draw those parallels without having to watch them for the challenge. What I mean is: couldn't we still draw parallels between films like The Best of Youth, Le Grande Voyage, The Dark Knight, etc. without adding them to the checklist.

I agree, but I think that we can lure them with impassioned discussion of the things that we find interesting. I generally don't like horror films, didn't participate in the challenge, but I kept reading the discussion and list thread anyway. Eventually, I dipped my toe in the water and realized that not everyone in there was going to roast me for only watching a handful of films and I joined the list thread. I'm still not a big horror fan, but if other people are excited about it, then I'm curious to see what the excitement is about.

The 30+ participants that we had last year is on par with some of the other challenges. I don't think we need to set a goal of having a certain number of people. There is probably the assumption of elitism (as you stated), but I'm fairly confident that anyone clicking the discussion/list threads are going to see some familiar titles. I'm curious about the conversations as well. Perhaps the compromise here is that it's a topic we could discuss, but such discussions also happen in the HD Talk Thread for Criterion on Blu. My biggest worry is derailing the conversation because in years past, I think those have been really great.

I don't think we'd add a single person because of this change, not because I can see the future, but because there is already a long list of accessible films (see post #8) and everyone could find at least a handful of films that would appeal to them. Just as there are those that will think films are great because there is a spine number and a C in the corner, there are those that will loathe a film because it has those same elements.

I love films and Criterion happens to put out some great ones. Other companies also put out great films. For those that have been hesitant to join the challenge, check out some of the titles in Post #8, or on the link to Criterion-not-on-DVDs, or the Criterion page and you're sure to find something you like.

(Also, this post is so damn long, but I'm tired and I've already edited a bunch...enjoy the stream-of-consciousness)

New Hulu Specials (and 50% off in the Criterion store) on these titles.

I used to only take part in the horror challenge. Curisoity about the other challenges got the better of me, and I started taking part in them all. Last year was my first Criterion Challenge, and even though I didn't watch much, I had fun, and look forward to it again.

I've been kinda streaky the last ten months, but I enjoy the challenges quite a bit. I confess, I find Animation a bit tedious after a couple of weeks. Part of that, I think, is that I'm watching that stuff while discussing plans for this challenge. Unlike the others, where there's a nearly infinite amount of content to be seen, this one has an actual, achievable view count. Each year, I whittle away at it. I feel like this is the one challenge where I can actually demonstrate some kind of progress (even if Criterion adds plenty of titles in the intervening year each time!). This has become probably my personal favorite of all the challenges, and I would never have guessed that I would even be a participant in it!

I'm planning on devoting at least one full day to unwatched extras - I used to be an extras fiend back in the DVD days, but other than commentaries I rarely watch them anymore.

Same here but including commentaries. I've found most commentaries aren't great and I have enough unwatched stuff to get through, rather than wasting time on a gamble.

Do any of you have a Criterion.com profile? I'm on there here. I've got a Top 10 list of my favorite Criterion titles, as determined by my Flickchart. I'm eager to see if anything I watch next month cracks that list!

I see another kaiju movie is getting the Criterion Treatment, Eclipse is putting out a box set of 4 horror and sci fi movies this November, including X The Monster From Outer Space.

I know I found a few last year, all shorts iirc, but anyone else have ideas for Criterion animation combinations for our first day?

Heavy CGI stuff maybe? Armageddon?

This is always the problem I have. The gamble between watching something new or potentially being further enlightened by a film I love. I rarely listen to commentaries anymore because of time constraints, but when there is a good one that I'm really invested in, then it always pays off.

I've found that one of the most interesting things about commentaries is that enjoyment of certain ones varies wildly from one person to the next. I couldn't, with any confidence, say to a person that they would absolutely love a commentary. I think the Rashomon commentary is particularly strong and I highly recommend reading the original texts as well (they are both short, short stories), but someone could easily say that the commentary bored them and I couldn't defend it with any type of enthusiasm.

Bergman is my favorite director, but I can say that Peter Cowie's commentaries are somewhat dry. I still find enjoyment in what he has to say, but I'm guessing the long pauses and tone will grate on some people's nerves.

http://www.criterion.com/hulu_special

Another round of 50% off discs and free Hulu viewing. Obviously, you can't watch these prior to the film, but it just give you an idea of the rotation that these go through (and you might want to take advantage of the 50% off). I've been keeping an eye on the Pearls of the Czech New Wave, not sure that I'll bite on this...

Is there a list thread yet? I didn't see one. I'll be on vacation until the 8th or so, but I'll begin updating my list then.

Not yet. I have plans to create it tonight or tomorrow evening. I'll post in this thread once it's up.

Okay, cool. I've got 27 unwatched Criterion Blu-rays, so my goal is to watch all of them, make it through some of my Eclipse backlog, and devote a couple of days to unwatched extras.

This year I take it seriously. Should have a lot more free time, a week of which will be vacation. Quite a few more titles than last time, most of them unwatched.

Collection from 2011



Collection from 2012


Additions:
BLU: Three Colors, Godzilla, The Magician, In the Realm of the Senses, Belle Du Jour, The Killing, The Wages of Fear, Certified Copy, Traffic, The Phantom Carriage, The Darjeeling Limited, And Everything is Going Fine, Diabolique, Rushmore, Being John Malkovich, By Brakhage, Sweet Smell of Success, Salo, Dazed and Confused, Fanny and Alexander, Carlos, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, Gray's Anatomy, World on a Wire, The Last Temptation of Christ, Down by Law, The War Room, Sanjuro/Yojimbo.
DVD: White Material, The Life Aquatic, La Commare Secca, Beastie Boys Video Anthology, Short Cuts.

Subtractions: Brazil (hoping for the Blu too soon), Fanny and Alexander.

MIA: Fishing with John (I know I didn't get rid of it, but damn if I know where it is).

Challenge list

I hit 27 in 2010, and only 14 last year (those counts include some commentary tracks and bonus content). This year, my objective is to at the very least hit 28 to establish a new high. This is the first year, though, that I'll have access to the HuluPlus collection so I expect I'll clear that 28 by far. I intend to complete the checklist, which I came within two checks of doing in 2010 but didn't come close to last year.

Soderbergh also signed my copy of Solaris (his film, not Tarkovsky's).

I took a quick look through the laserdisc list, and Akira is the obvious choice. It's been a long time since I've seen Monty Python and Holy Grail, so I don't recall how much animation it included.

As Mr. Peepers noted , By Brakhage has a lot of qualifying movies. I found the more abstract works, particularly where he painted directly onto the film, to be the easiest to watch, and most movies in the set at the very least have the virtue of being short. If you're bored or infuriated, in a few minutes you'll have the opportunity to be bored or infuriated by something else (which may or may not be very similar to what you just watched).

I'm thinking about watching a few of Brakhage's films with my son. He only watched a few with me when I first got the set, so I'm planning to pick out a few that I liked or that seemed interesting. I did find most of his movies to be dull, pretentious or both. I can see why Window Water Baby Moving is considered an important film, but would have preferred if the presentation of the subject was more straight forward and less artsy. I found The Act of Seeing With One's Own Eyes powerful and surprisingly beautiful, but it's not something that I'm eager to watch again given its content, and to at least a small degree I was offended by his (and the morgue's consent to) use of human remains for what is essentially entertainment (if only for a very small audience). Neither of these movies is animation, though (although I guess that what he does with the film in Window Water Baby Moving could be condered animation, in a sense).

I'd recommend Mothlight, The Garden of Earthly Delights, Night Music, Delicacies of Molten Horror Synapse and Chinese Series from among the movies that seem to qualify as animation.

I don't think I've participated in this challenge yet but I believe I will this year. I had about 120 Criterions up until I had to sell them about six months ago, but I've been building it back up and have somewhat of a selection again to pick from. I won't go crazy since I'm saving that energy for the horror challenge so I'll probably aim for between 25-40 movies which should give me enough time to properly digest what I've seen.