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Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by MinLShaw
(Post 10887216)
Late last night I stayed up and streamed The Pixar Story...
One criticism I have is that the film is so exclusively about the inner workings of Pixar that it doesn't really place that narrative into the context of what the rest of the industry was doing during that time. For instance, it might have been interesting to see the parallel story of Dreamworks and their much more inconsistent track record, both commercially and critically. I don't bring this up just to pick on Dreamworks, but rather because I think it speaks to just how anomalous Pixar's success really is. Other than Cars and Cars 2, it's rare to hear a bad word about their movies. Conversely, I suspect a lot of people would have a hard time even naming more than five Dreamworks movies outside of the Shrek series. For that matter, I suspect some people mistakenly think Ice Age was one of theirs. You don't have that confusion or forgetfulness with Pixar. And I hope people wouldn't confuse "Ice Age" as a Pixar movie. No where near the same league. |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Pizza
(Post 10889706)
I don't understand your criticism because then it wouldn't be "The Pixar Story." It'd be Pixar VS Dreamworks or The Rise of CGI Animation. I truly doubt Dreamworks would have been aggreeable to what you suggest, but it certainly would have been interesting and I'd watch that, but that is a different documentary.
If this is a fluff piece of Pixar propaganda, then maybe it seems unsportsmanlike to point out the shortcomings of other animation studios. But if this is supposed to present for the historical record just what a remarkable studio Pixar has been to date then, yes, it is entirely appropriate to point out that, from 1995 (the release of Toy Story) through 2007 (the production of The Pixar Story), no one else had come close to their kind of consistency at the box office, with critics and awards or with viewers. And I hope people wouldn't confuse "Ice Age" as a Pixar movie. No where near the same league. |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by MinLShaw
(Post 10889579)
Re: Allowing 2 hours of shorts to substitute for a movie on the checklist, I only see one problem. We could very easily compile 2 hours worth of shorts that cover the vast majority of the checklist and, under the "multiple checks per title" clause, negate the entire point of requiring a 2 hour aggregate.
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Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Mister Peepers
(Post 10889778)
I might be misunderstanding you but all the shorts would have to share the same characteristic to get a check on the checklist. So for the fantasy genre, the entire group of shorts would need to be fantasy, so time-wise, you're still watching the same amount of time as you would a movie. Even if you were mixing shorts around for different checks, I don't see it all that different than planning on titles to get the max number of checks from each one.
The Dinosaur and the Missing Link - A Prehistoric Tragedy (6:54 - in 2 parts) Us Fellers: Dud Leaves Home (5:16) Fun in a Bakery Shop (1:38) Gertie on Tour--excerpts[/COLOR] (1:41) Mary and Gretel (7:35 - in 2 parts) Mr. Nobody Holme - He Buys a Jitney (1:40) The Original Katzenjammer Kids. in Policy and Pie (7:41 - in 2 parts) Keeping Up with the Joneses ["Men's Styles"] (3:53) Keeping Up with the Joneses ["Women's Styles"] (3:08) Humorous Phases of Funny Faces (3:19) Checklist: Spoiler:
Now, this is based on the idea that my collection of viewed short films from a singular, specific collection, was considered the equivalent of one movie entry. Within just that assortment of shorts, these are the checks I think I would be able to arguably claim. Unless, of course, I would have to watch 2 hours of shorts starting with just the letters A, B and/or C to get that check, and then 2 hours of shorts that were based on comic strips to get that check, etc. The upshot to that system is it definitely eliminates easy pickings like I've just suggested, but I think it's far harder to accumulate that many shorts to earn full checks in more than one or two categories. I mean, if there were 2 hours of Keeping Up with the Joneses, I could do 1910s, Unrated, based on a comic strip, comedy and starts with JKLM. That's assuming 2 hours of those shorts even existed and I could lay my hands on them. Otherwise, I'd have to pair them with numerous other shorts to ever earn any of those check marks. |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by MinLShaw
(Post 10889816)
Unless, of course, I would have to watch 2 hours of shorts starting with just the letters A, B and/or C to get that check, and then 2 hours of shorts that were based on comic strips to get that check, etc.
You also have the ability to mix and match shorts. Let's say you want to do the 1910 checklist item and you have 90 minutes of Keeping Up with the Joneses. Let's also say that one of those episodes is from 1920 but the rest fall within the 1910s. If you could find another 1910 short to make up for the time, you'd group that short along with the rest of the Keeping Up with the Joneses. Does that make sense? It's early over here and I'm trying not to skip over anything. |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Mister Peepers
(Post 10889883)
This. My plan is that someone would still have to watch 90 min of shorts or of TV shows, 120 min with commercials, in order to get a check.
You also have the ability to mix and match shorts. Let's say you want to do the 1910 checklist item and you have 90 minutes of Keeping Up with the Joneses. Let's also say that one of those episodes is from 1920 but the rest fall within the 1910s. If you could find another 1910 short to make up for the time, you'd group that short along with the rest of the Keeping Up with the Joneses. Does that make sense? It's early over here and I'm trying not to skip over anything. |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by MinLShaw
(Post 10889731)
Spend some time talking with people about movies who don't spend time on forums like this. Pixar is to CG movies what Apple is to MP3 players; even when it's clearly not an iPod, it's often called that by people who don't realize the distinction. In fact, this is a little point that I suspect would have come out had they devoted any time to contrasting Pixar with their competition: Pixar is the first animation studio since (what? Hanna-Barbera?) to be recognized by name by the lay public. The very name conjures a specific aesthetic. By being its pioneers, Pixar is forever linked with CG animation for many, if not most, people who pay any attention to such things. That's a rare accomplishment, and one for which I feel Pixar ought to have been recognized in this documentary.
Pixar is one of the only brands that matters these days, a reason for people to see a movie even when they don't know much about that particular movie. That and Disney. |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by MinLShaw
(Post 10889891)
That makes sense, but...holy damn, dude. It would take forever to accumulate multiple checks with short films that way. I'm certain there aren't enough short films in my library to ever earn more than one or two checks at most--decades would be easiest. And since Netflix doesn't really stream many short films as of now (though, admittedly, there are now several) and they're not the kind of thing that show up on TV often (outside of Loony Tunes/Merrie Melodies), there's just not much chance of this system being very viable for someone like me. For those who want to gorge on them, more power to you, though.
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Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by MinLShaw
(Post 10889731)
Nonsense. It's all part of their story. Note I never insisted that part of the narrative should dominate the entire documentary or overwrite its thesis. But I do believe it's a legitimate point to make that their success has not just occurred in a vacuum created by a series of identity crises at Disney. They've done their thing while others have tried with far less consistent results.
If this is a fluff piece of Pixar propaganda, then maybe it seems unsportsmanlike to point out the shortcomings of other animation studios. But if this is supposed to present for the historical record just what a remarkable studio Pixar has been to date then, yes, it is entirely appropriate to point out that, from 1995 (the release of Toy Story) through 2007 (the production of The Pixar Story), no one else had come close to their kind of consistency at the box office, with critics and awards or with viewers. Spend some time talking with people about movies who don't spend time on forums like this. Pixar is to CG movies what Apple is to MP3 players; even when it's clearly not an iPod, it's often called that by people who don't realize the distinction. In fact, this is a little point that I suspect would have come out had they devoted any time to contrasting Pixar with their competition: Pixar is the first animation studio since (what? Hanna-Barbera?) to be recognized by name by the lay public. The very name conjures a specific aesthetic. By being its pioneers, Pixar is forever linked with CG animation for many, if not most, people who pay any attention to such things. That's a rare accomplishment, and one for which I feel Pixar ought to have been recognized in this documentary. With that, most documentaries can be described as some form of propaganda. |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
I finally watched Metropolis (2001). I took a few days to let it simmer in an effort to be more fair with my opinion.
Overall it was an OK movie but it didn't make me an anime fan. It still had too many of the aspects of anime/manga that I just do not like. I finally figured out what some of that is, at least in the way people are presented. It's the Astroboy look with tiny faces/mouths and large eyes. That deer-in-the-headlights look. I find it *very* distracting with a great sameness to every character which has that "look". Much like many comic artists, you can only tell who someone is by the clothes and/or hair. Aside from the disparity in character design (some drawn like Astroboy, some in a more traditional American style, and others somewhere in between), the backgrounds are simply spectacular and there are some excellent effects shots. Some almost jaw-dropping good. I frequently found myself watching the backgrounds to the detriment of the characters/plot. Crowd and panoramic type shots were very well done. However, the incredible detail in the backgrounds, with some almost photorealistic, clashed far too often with the more primitive character animation. Back to that too many disparate styles mixture of the main characters. Another distraction. I was very surprised by the score. I guess I was expecting some type of Japanese synth/techno type score. It was mostly 20s & 30s style music, typically ragtime, with some more modern rhythms mixed in apparently for effect. It generally worked, but occasionally some of it felt a bit out of place, like in the use of "I Can't Stop Loving You" over the final explosions. I enjoyed the song as it's one of my favorites from Ray Charles. On one hand it kind of worked but overall it felt forced, and somewhat cliche', like the director was just looking for a way to use a the song. Outside of some imagery it really wasn't much like the Lang classic. The story was pretty basic and felt more like a love story than sci-fi. Frequently the sci-fi elements felt somewhat tacked on for effect. I read that the manga was written not with the Lang film/story in mind but that the author had only seen some frames of the film and based his story on those. The film plays pretty much the same way. I wish they'd have included a pdf of the manga as a special feature so I could have compared the two. I actually watched this twice. Once with Japanese audio and English subtitles and again with English audio and English subtitles. The English subtitles actually made for a better film and felt "tighter" and more tense than the English audio track. The proceedings felt somewhat watered down with the English soundtrack. The voice acting on the English track was fairly good, but not as good as the "feeling" you get from vocal inflections on the Japanese track. So. My final score: 5 out of 10. A fair, but cliche', SF/love story that is worth watching mainly for the great backgrounds and effects shots. |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Pizza
(Post 10890155)
I just don't agree. Like I said, it's called "The Pixar Story" for a reason and it should stay focused on that studio. To do otherwise makes it another movie. And, if the film did make some of the boasts you talk about, I feel they'd be accused of making a fluff piece.
With that, most documentaries can be described as some form of propaganda. No matter what the subject of a documentary, it must place its narrative in a context. The Pixar Story places it in the context of a generational battle against the old guard at Disney--a battle Pixar ultimately won. That's a perfectly fine narrative. But it sells Pixar a little short. They didn't just grow up to be just as big as Dad; they left their classmates in the dust, too. The Pixar Story neglects to give them credit for that. |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by MinLShaw
(Post 10890577)
If you made a documentary about the 1990s Braves, at some point don't you have to point out that no other division in baseball was dominated from the beginning of that decade to its end like they ran the National League East? You're still telling The Braves Story. You're just also providing context for the viewer to better appreciate what they accomplished that no one else did.
No matter what the subject of a documentary, it must place its narrative in a context. The Pixar Story places it in the context of a generational battle against the old guard at Disney--a battle Pixar ultimately won. That's a perfectly fine narrative. But it sells Pixar a little short. They didn't just grow up to be just as big as Dad; they left their classmates in the dust, too. The Pixar Story neglects to give them credit for that. |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
:clap: to BobO'Link for making the effort to watch Metropolis twice.
Just watched Tangled, which I really liked in the theaters then pre-ordered the 3-D combo with one of those coupons. Haven't been able to get the kids to watch until they suggested it today. Very entertaining film that looks great on 2-D blu. |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by BobO'Link
(Post 10890496)
I finally watched Metropolis (2001). I took a few days to let it simmer in an effort to be more fair with my opinion.
Overall it was an OK movie but it didn't make me an anime fan. It still had too many of the aspects of anime/manga that I just do not like. I finally figured out what some of that is, at least in the way people are presented. It's the Astroboy look with tiny faces/mouths and large eyes. That deer-in-the-headlights look. I find it *very* distracting with a great sameness to every character which has that "look". Much like many comic artists, you can only tell who someone is by the clothes and/or hair. Aside from the disparity in character design (some drawn like Astroboy, some in a more traditional American style, and others somewhere in between), the backgrounds are simply spectacular and there are some excellent effects shots. Some almost jaw-dropping good. I frequently found myself watching the backgrounds to the detriment of the characters/plot. Crowd and panoramic type shots were very well done. However, the incredible detail in the backgrounds, with some almost photorealistic, clashed far too often with the more primitive character animation. Back to that too many disparate styles mixture of the main characters. Another distraction. I was very surprised by the score. I guess I was expecting some type of Japanese synth/techno type score. It was mostly 20s & 30s style music, typically ragtime, with some more modern rhythms mixed in apparently for effect. It generally worked, but occasionally some of it felt a bit out of place, like in the use of "I Can't Stop Loving You" over the final explosions. I enjoyed the song as it's one of my favorites from Ray Charles. On one hand it kind of worked but overall it felt forced, and somewhat cliche', like the director was just looking for a way to use a the song. Outside of some imagery it really wasn't much like the Lang classic. The story was pretty basic and felt more like a love story than sci-fi. Frequently the sci-fi elements felt somewhat tacked on for effect. I read that the manga was written not with the Lang film/story in mind but that the author had only seen some frames of the film and based his story on those. The film plays pretty much the same way. I wish they'd have included a pdf of the manga as a special feature so I could have compared the two. I actually watched this twice. Once with Japanese audio and English subtitles and again with English audio and English subtitles. The English subtitles actually made for a better film and felt "tighter" and more tense than the English audio track. The proceedings felt somewhat watered down with the English soundtrack. The voice acting on the English track was fairly good, but not as good as the "feeling" you get from vocal inflections on the Japanese track. So. My final score: 5 out of 10. A fair, but cliche', SF/love story that is worth watching mainly for the great backgrounds and effects shots. I've been reading a lot of Tezuka's manga lately and have watched some interesting and more recent adaptations of his work. Just this past weekend I finished watching the "Phoenix" TV series from 2004 that was based on his most important work, "Hi no Tori" (aka Phoenix), a cosmological narrative that addresses issues of life, death, survival, eternal life and human foibles in a wide range of tales ranging from Ancient Japan to the far future. The TV series gets some of his ideas right, but is done in a more generic anime style that doesn't really add anything stylistically. Still, I found it fascinating. One of the best adaptations was PHOENIX 2772 (1980), a theatrical animated film that had Tezuka's input and was based on a "Phoenix" story set in the future. It was also the very first Japanese animated feature film I ever saw. It has a very strong science fiction story, but is also mixed in with "cute" cartoonish characters that can be off-putting to some. I love the film anyway and think it's one of teh best Tezuka anime adaptations ever. I saw it at a festival in 1982 and on the same day I also went to see STAR TREK II: THE WRATH OF KHAN, which had closely related plot elements. I intend to re-watch PHOENIX 2772 for this challenge. I have it on English-dubbed VHS and a Japanese-only DVD. (I've actually already watched 21 TV eps. and one TV movie based on Tezuka for this challenge.) But, yeah, the study of Tezuka manga and their anime adaptations is a pet project of mine. |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Fooly Cooly might not have been the best watch for an anime novice. Have no idea what the heck that was. :hscratch:
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Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Don't think I'll be making my goals of finishing the checklist and hitting 100 episodes. Was on a good pace, but then decided to make an impromptu 5 day trip and get engaged. So between planning that, taking the trip, and now the inevitable "you going to watch TV instead of spend time with your new fiancee?"; I doubt I'll make much more progress.
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Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Trevor
(Post 10891870)
Don't think I'll be making my goals of finishing the checklist and hitting 100 episodes. Was on a good pace, but then decided to make an impromptu 5 day trip and get engaged. So between planning that, taking the trip, and now the inevitable "you going to watch TV instead of spend time with your new fiancee?"; I doubt I'll make much more progress.
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Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
congrats for me to you too Trevor
question: in the check off list "--- Special feature" I'm assuming this means a DVD/Bluray supplement, does this mean we can use that and not have to use up one of our three "wild cards"? |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Giles
(Post 10892334)
congrats for me to you too Trevor
question: in the check off list "--- Special feature" I'm assuming this means a DVD/Bluray supplement, does this mean we can use that and not have to use up one of our three "wild cards"? As long as it's about animation and not just interviews with people with the subject being more about them than the animation, then you shouldn't need a wildcard. This is also one item that you don't really need to watch with a specified length for it to count. |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Mister Peepers
(Post 10892431)
Depends on what you watch. I watched Deleted Scenes from American Dad, along with some of the other animated special features, so no wild card was needed.
As long as it's about animation and not just interviews with people with the subject being more about them than the animation, then you shouldn't need a wildcard. This is also one item that you don't really need to watch with a specified length for it to count. |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Trevor
(Post 10891870)
Don't think I'll be making my goals of finishing the checklist and hitting 100 episodes. Was on a good pace, but then decided to make an impromptu 5 day trip and get engaged. So between planning that, taking the trip, and now the inevitable "you going to watch TV instead of spend time with your new fiancee?"; I doubt I'll make much more progress.
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Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
A couple of days ago, I finished up the complete series of Danger Mouse after realizing that challenges are tailored to that sort of thing. I purchased the set quite some time ago and was slowly working my way through - sometimes watching a couple episodes each day, sometimes forgetting about it for months.
It is a show that I remember watching on Nickelodeon when I was a kid. In fact I loved Penfold so much that I started saying "oh crumbs" when frustrated or upset. At that time, I didn't realize just how much of their programming was from other countries. Now the channel features so many spastic American shows, and I wish that they would set aside some time for quirky, charming shows like Danger Mouse. |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
I never really got into Danger Mouse but I did stick around to watch Bananaman.
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Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Mister Peepers
(Post 10892431)
Depends on what you watch. I watched Deleted Scenes from American Dad, along with some of the other animated special features, so no wild card was needed.
As long as it's about animation and not just interviews with people with the subject being more about them than the animation, then you shouldn't need a wildcard. This is also one item that you don't really need to watch with a specified length for it to count. |
Re: 2nd Annual August Animation Challenge - Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by davidh777
(Post 10893200)
What about bonus episodes on a DCU movie?
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