Ash Ketchum

Was there ever a western challenge? I just bought three DVD box sets of westerns tonight. (All legit studio DVDs at pretty good prices--came out to around $5 per movie--at Entertainment Outlet, one of the last stores in Manhattan where you can find these things.) Thanks to watching the CHISUM DVD on my big screen TV earlier this year, I've been getting a real hankering for more of them. If there was such a challenge, how did it do? If there wasn't, is there a possibility that nobody would participate? Besides me, that is.

Travis McClain

Foreign has been suggested from time to time, but I think the general feeling is that it's too niche for a challenge. The Criterion Challenge, of course, includes a lot of foreign content, but it's admittedly very restricted.

Aside from TV on DVD, what other themes would interest your husband? We're always looking for fresh ideas, you know.

Westerns were included in June's Historical Appreciation Challenge, along with War and documentaries. The turnout was respectable for a first-time challenge, I thought--but I shouldn't say anything since I failed to even participate after turning over the hosting duties I'd originally assumed. June was a bad, bad month for us. I'm hopeful that June 2011 will be less hectic and we'll get to participate. If you want to hold off until June, it sounds like you're set!

kstublen

I love Westerns, I just don't have enough to watch for a full month. In fact, I'd be open to some Western recommendations as it's probably one of my favourite genres, but severely under-represented in my collection.

I think I saw mention of a Western Challenge, but if not there's always the "Make Your Own Challenge" Month so you could do it then too.

kstublen

As I said before, I think this is a great idea for a challenge. It's restrictive enough in that it would have to be stuff as part of a series or a television-only special, whatever you/we end up deciding. But at the same time, it is also very inclusive in that you could watch whatever type of television you want - drama, comedy, science fiction, horror, action, animation, etc.

Not to mention, as you said, TV on DVD is actually a pretty big deal, when you think about it. For me, it's what I watch more than anything else. I watch a lot of television and then split it up with movies here and there. Definitely deserves its own challenge as far as I'm concerned.

MrTerrific

I like the idea of a TV on DVD challenge.

And January is better for me.

Travis McClain

It just seems to me that what's nice about a TV on DVD Challenge is that it recognizes the impact that the DVD format has had on TV content. When I grew up, only a few TV shows had a VHS release (and most of those were through Columbia House). Stand-up and concert specials had home releases, but those were a very niche market at the time. In 2010, though, it's pretty common to find whole shelves of such content in any given used DVD shop. Within a generation, people have embraced a concept they once laughingly rejected: paying to own a TV show. That, to me, is the heart and soul of a TV on DVD Challenge.

Trevor

One thing that I strongly oppose is any idea to limit it to TV "on DVD". Format should never be a disqualifier in any challenge. I'll be counting stuff whether I watch it on BD, VHS, UMD, OTA, online streaming or whatever.

The beauty of Challenges is that individuals can make things as challenging as they want for themselves. If you want to limit yourself to DVDs only, great. To Italian soap operas on VHS, fantastic. To short cartoons on Boomerang as they air, go for it. Challenge rules should always be inclusive, then individuals can make their own goals and limits to get as restrictive as they personally want.

llandros

I couldn't agree more! And I am excited about doing a TV Challenge - was going to do this when the Make-Your-Own-Challenge came around, but this would be great.

PopcornBandit

This is the one challenge that I would definitely be up for.

Ash Ketchum

How about a TV Western challenge?

Dimension X

I voted for the limitation, but that was because I think it would be better to leave out current shows, and there wasn't a better option to make that happen.
With the current rules, you could do that for either the Make-Your-Own-Challenge Challenge or the Historical Challenge, and I assume you will also be able to do it for the TV Challenge. So you could do three months of TV Westerns (or TV Space Operas, TV Horror, etc.) if you want.

Trevor

But why do you want to limit others? If I want to watch only current shows why should I be excluded?
And if we have an Action/Adventure Challenge, that would be a 4th month.

He could make 2011 the Year of the Western.

Travis McClain

The reason I even suggested the restriction to TV content on DVD (or HD-DVD/Blu-ray) is that, as I've already said, I see the heart and soul of this challenge being a celebration of what the DVD format has done for our collective TV viewing habits. To me, it just made sense to focus the scope of the challenge to TV content on disc, in recognition of the significance of the convergence of the TV medium and DVD format.

But again, I say this strictly as a would-be participant and not as its prospective host. I'm perfectly content to defer to whatever the group consensus is. Incidentally, GoldenWheels has enthusiastically offered to sponsor this challenge if we make it happen.

One more thought: Wasn't the one rule for the Make-Your-Own Challenge that you couldn't pick a theme that already had its own challenge? Ergo, if we did establish a TV on DVD Challenge, MYO participants would need to refine their themes in May. It's not a problem with me if someone wants to dip into TV for two different months, but it's something that crossed my mind.

Trevor

That's an awesome thought/desire, but why even consider limiting others?
But why would group consensus even come into play in a situation like this? If 50 of 51 participants wanted to watch only their DVD TV sets, but I wanted to watch a series that is only available on VHS, why would there be a "rule" excluding me?
It was mentioned or possibly even made a rule, but I'd say eliminate it.

Why all this talk of being restrictive? These things should be as inclusive as possible. If someone wants to watch westerns all year long, and makes them fit into the loose rules of the Challenges, let them.

Counting should be done like the Holiday Challenge. Everything counts as one, even shorts. Getting to 100 is a difficult thing. Even myself, with absolutely no life and a desire to watch films all the time, have only gotten to 100 films a few times in my entire life. But 100 shorts or TV shows, that's easier, but still difficult for anyone with a family or demanding job. I thought more and more of us were getting to this more lax counting rule, and any new challenges need to be done the "Holiday way" imo.

We want to encourage more participation and get the rest of the DVDTalk community involved. We already have the less than 1% hardcore Challengers, and we are welcome to personally make the goal 100 long films or be as restrictive as we want in our individual participation. But to even consider restrictive rules or 100 film goals is wrong imo.

Dimension X

That just seems too much like a "what are you watching this week?" kind of thing to me. Like there's nothing special about it if you're just listing the shows you'd normally be watching anyway (and, yes, I say that as someone who has included episodes of shows I'd normally be watching anyway in the Holiday Challenge).

I don't think VHS, LDs, Netflix, etc. should be excluded, just current broadcasts.
You're encouraged not to duplicate an existing Challenge. You can narrow the focus down though. So they could watch one show, or one genre (assuming that the TV Challenge will not require participants to focus on one show or one genre).

The MYOC has "guidelines" not "rules," but I'd kind of like that one to be a rule because I don't want to subtract from participation in any of the other Challenges.

Travis McClain

There's a very simple reason why talk of exclusion arises with any given challenge: those are the boundaries that help define the nature of the actual theme. For instance, if we simply allowed anything that has ever been broadcast on TV, that would allow for movies since there are movie channels. That doesn't seem to fit the spirit of the challenge.

As for the formatting restrictions, it came up early in this discussion. The intention was to guard against the idea that DVD viewers would be competing against people just vegging out with DirecTV all day. The result may be the same, but doing so ignores half of the equation: TV on DVD.

Personally, I don't care how anyone counts in this challenge. I've already decided that any prizes (which GoldenWheels has graciously offered to provide) will not be awarded based on final view totals anyway. I really like the trivia question approach Chad has used in the Horror Challenge, and I think I'll take a crack at something like that.

As for the idea of any given challenge having a milestone objective, that's really more a topic for the compendium thread. I'll only say here that the nature of a TV on DVD challenge, by design, is not one where the typical approaches really apply. I don't believe participants should feel they are in competition with one another, so much as against the calendar.

Just what is it you're hell bent on watching that isn't on DVD, anyway? We've already agreed VHS format is allowed as an alternative for those who happen to have such content in their library.

Travis McClain

Why didn't I just wait five minutes and let you save me the hassle? Well put.

So far as I'm concerned, any series regardless of genre is allowed for this challenge. I would suggest that participants keep in mind that they can view select content for other challenges and not overlook the opportunity to watch other fare here, but that's up to each participant to decide. Let's say we do this in January (which is what 75% of poll respondents favor), and someone gets the Batman Beyond complete series on DVD for Christmas. I'm not gonna be the one to tell them they have to wait until August for the Animation Challenge. If you want to be patient with it and instead watch 30 Rock for this challenge, that's up to you.

Trevor

That's fine for you, or me, but again, I see no reason to limit others.
But keep in mind that not everyone can participate in every Challenge. If I'm going to be out of the country in August and want to watch all animation in May, there shouldn't be a rule against it.

Sure we can make guidelines and encourage people to use all the Challenges, or to do a certain Challenge a certain way, but we should be as inclusive as possible.
So there is only one definition of spirit of the challenge?

I'm all for guidelines obviously, but within reason. Obviously movies later broadcast on TV shouldn't count, no one would think of that, but a TV show is a TV show, no matter how it is viewed.

If you watch season 3 of Seinfeld on DVD and I watch it on TBS, I say fine.
When did this become a TV on DVD Challenge?

I proposed a TV Challenge for November, and the two most important aspects of my plan have been changed. I'm not upset, and will obviously play along with whatever a challenge lead puts down for the most part, but just find it odd how it's changed so.

I just don't get why you or anyone would care if someone just vegged in front of DirectTV all day. As if that is somehow worse or different than vegging in front of a DVD.
Yes, that's a great change made to the Challenges a couple years ago when people were accused of "cheating" to win. The most number should never be encouraged.
Exactly! I prefer no number goal at all. But you mentioned using the TV show counting rules of the Horror (and other) Challenges, and I just wanted to put a bug in your ear against that method. If we're going to have counting of any kind, I vote for the holiday way.
Nothing. I'll probably do just DVD. I was speaking for the people.
See, we do agree on a few things!

Dimension X

Sounds good to me.
It just seems to me that without some limitations, you've removed any "challenge" and made it nothing but a monthly viewing diary.
Good points. But it still bothers me that someone might watch a certain genre during the MYOC and then feel "burnt out" on it when the "Official" Challenge comes around, and skip it. It'll probably never happen, but I think the guideline should stay (if you really want to drop it, we can discuss it in April).

Trevor

I understand your point, and think that most people will stick to pre-recorded media. But if someone wants to participate and doesn't own any TV on media, or has a broken player, or just prefers OTA, I think we should welcome them.

Sure, a "guideline" could be that it is a challenge to get through your TV season sets, but all TV viewing could be encouraged.

The vast majority of site visitors never participate in any Challenge. Tons of people aren't interested in Horror or Animation or Sci-Fi, etc. But if they see threads about a genre or type of viewing that they are interested in, like TV, then the phrasing of the guidelines and the very title of the Challenge itself should be as inclusive as possible.
Understood as well, and I'm all for you keeping the guideline to encourage avoiding other Challenges. I'm just saying that personally, I'd prefer it to stay a guideline and not a rule.

There are several circumstances where I see one could want to "duplicate" another Challenge in the MYOC. Lots of people only watch a certain genre. If a horror hound finds DVDTalk and wants to participate in the Challenges, I wouldn't want to steer them away from hanging out with us in May listing their horror viewings (same for all the other challenges); people being busy a certain challenge and not wanting to wait a whole year to watch what they want; etc

Dimension X

I think we're more or less saying the same thing here. It is just a "guideline." So if someone wants to watch horror stuff in May, they can "duplicate" the Oct. Challenge if they want, but they're encouraged to follow the guideline and narrow their focus, and watch just Japanese horror, or just zombie films, or just lesbian vampire movies, or something more specific like that. Heck, even the start and end dates were "guidelines," so you could still be doing your May MYOC now if you wanted.

Trevor

That's awesome.

And sorry for another derail, but since it looks like November will be free, perhaps a mini MYOC: Electric Boogalo could fill the void.

WallyOPD

In regards to the viewing on TV debate, I view the challenges as having 2 main goals:

1. Providing a guided viewing experience for the duration of the challenge
2. Provide a communal viewing experience among challenge participants

I'm all for being inclusive as it relates to goal #2, but it feels like we might be sacrificing some of #1 if we open it up to standard TV viewing. I would venture to say that anyone participating in this challenge watches TV anyway, so allowing any old TV viewing isn't really guiding their experience at all. As someone else mentioned, it would be basically just a diary of what you would have been watching anyway. For it to be a "challenge" there has to be some meaning behind it.

Trevor

Allowing OTA content doesn't violate your two points at all.

Every other Challenge allows OTA content.

Every other Challenge allows counting stuff that you would have watched anyway.

Every Challenge is what one makes of it. Half the participants of every Challenge we've ever had have only watched a few things, largely stuff they would have watched anyway. Do we throw them out?

My plan for the TV Challenge was to explore stuff I've never seen before, mainly my DVD sets, but also some cable channels I've never seen before. Cleaning out my DVR is going to be fun.

Somebody may make a personal challenge to explore the top shows on 31 different TV stations that they rarely watch. How is that not an incredibly valid challenge just as appropriate as anything we would do with our TV sets?

Challenges have to be diverse and allow individual expression. If it's limited to just DVD season sets you might as well just log it in the already existing unwatched and viewing threads.

I could watch 100 episodes of my various DVD sets, and a different person could watch the exact same episodes OTA. Why discourage them?

Some people don't own TV season sets, but they have cable.

Travis McClain

Yes, but TV content is allowed in based on its genre. This challenge would be based upon its medium. I view it similar to the Academy Awards or Criterion challenges, where the genre is not the theme, but rather another underlying factor. In this case, it just happens that the factor is that the content originally was intended for broadcast on TV.

Not true. The episodes of Psych I watched anyway in August didn't count for the Animation Challenge. And they shouldn't have counted because they didn't meet the one piece of criteria for that challenge: that the content be animated. And even that was pretty flimsy, since the Star Wars movies were allowed in based on the puppets in the OT and CGI in the PT. I think you've got a very exaggerated sense of how exclusionary these suggestions really are. I'm all for the devil's advocate helping to refine things, but this is starting to become a chore.

How about this: OTA content is eligible so long as it has a DVD release? So if you want to spend hours on end watching sitcom reruns on TBS, go for it. But you can't get credit for watching the 6:00 news. As others have expressed, without some exclusions, this is nothing more than a month long "what are you watching" thread and not a challenge.