jeffbase34

Music licensing seems to be dvd's greatest enemy. We still are deprived of a Wonder Years release because of the period music, and WKRP's dvd was stripped of all the great music.

Why is the music industry refusing to let people watch content and hear their music? It looks to me that getting of cut of the dvd profit is better than no profit at all. Are they just pricks that demand mega millions? Do they charge commercials out the roof for using popular music?

Mr. Salty

Typically studios don't want to pay more money for older shows that they think will return limited profits. Shout Factory seems to get the job done because they're willing to pay, so it is possible.

And yes, commercials pay through the nose to use popular music, but that's a different discussion.

DJariya

I'm not an expert on this issue, but to me it would seem like a next to impossible task especially for a show like Cold Case that features 4-5 period songs per episode over 24-25 episodes. Your talking about clearing well over 100 songs and paying royalties to all the artists in addition to the rights you already cleared for broadcast.

I may be exaggerating a little, but isn't that hundreds of thousands of dollars that Warner Bros and CBS would have to pay in addition to the fees they already paid for broadcast clearance. That would literally make the DVD set unaffordable.

rexinnih

I've dealt a bit with music/publishing rights in the past and it is a multi-layered process. Yes the money is a big part of it and it may cost nothing (there are marketing rights in the contract/the artist wants to get exposure) to big bucks (millions for those big acts in national commercials). On top of that is that you need to get written permission from who has the publishing rights. In the example of WKRP, in the 70's maybe the artist had the publishing rights and simply said "sure use the song" or the cost was minimal. Now flash forward to an ailing music industry that wants to wring as much money out of music as they can. Maybe some huge corporation now owns the publishing rights and their lawyers bog things down in the approval process, or maybe the artist now doesn't want their music used if they still have the publishing rights.
I've had to get clearance for just a few songs in the past and the process can take days to months depending on who you are dealing with. Multiply this by the number of songs needed for something like WKRP and you have countless hours, potential for hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars, and a lot more lawyers and hoops to jump through.
Not sure if this helps but basically it can cost a lot and take a lot of time.

DouglasRobert

I guess the people who wrote the contracts were either really smart or really stupid, depending on how you look at it I guess.

Personally I never understood why they couldn't have put something in the contracts that would cover all formats.

Perhaps something like. "We have the right to use the music provided and licensed by you for this program/episode for any and all future formats in which this program/episode maybe provided for sale or distributed."

If they would have put something like that in the contracts we wouldn't really have an issue with music rights for all of these tv shows.

Personally though both sides are hurting themselves. The music side because they don't want to bend a little and get something rather than nothing. The DVD side because they don't want to the money for the music rights and either never release it on dvd or replace or cut music sequences from the dvd which hurts sales as well. So in either case, they are being hurt in the bottom line.

fuzzbox

completely agree with above.

It makes no sense that DVDs have been around for over 10 years and we're STILL having licensing issues.

The fact that the artists involves won't just allow the songs to be used makes so little sense now in a market where they're struggling and need to get their music out in as many ways as possible. Not only are they hurting their own potential, they're screwing people out of being able to watch these TV shows in the way they remember them. The 21 Jump Street Series is a perfect example. it was built around music that was specifically picked for each episode, and now that they're all changed, the episodes feel very different.

-jason

dx23

Actually, they have putting this into contracts after the DVD issues happened. Still, greedy music studios now want even more money for songs in movies and shows and want to put time limits on the right to use contract. The Music industry wants to be able to negotiate every 5 to 10 years the use of songs in movies, shows and other forms of entertainment. Another show that has been shelved for DVD release because of the music is ED.

What the studios and music industries don't understand is that in the Internet and TIVO era, fans are going to get what they want, one way or the other. If studios don't make the product that has high demand available, then the consumer is going to get either by recording the show, by downloading it on the internet or by purchasing it from some pirate on Ebay.

rfduncan

Because everyone involved is a greedy bastard. The musicians want cash anyway they can get it - especially if it is as simple as asking for more $$$ for a catalog title that no one would care about/purchase today anyhow. The studio wants to pump out the product as cheaply as possible to increase their profit margins knowing people will shell out the dough without realizing they are purchasing an inferior product - regardless of the loss of artistic integrity.

Pretty simple really.

Giles

that was why 'Heavy Metal' and "American Pop' took quite a long time to make it to home video.

Bluelitespecial

I wquld still love the whole series of malcolm in the middle, but it will never happen because of the music rights.

rennervision

I'm still annoyed certain songs I remember from season 1 of Earl was changed for the DVDs. I can almost understand shows that came out before the invention of DVDs, but not when this happens to anything released this decade.

macnorton

I have a few comments on this issue:

1. The music industry, way more so than the film industry, are a bunch of greedy fucks. I have had friends (and my brother) have to go through all this BS to get their own songs back. Things are so assbackwards it can't even be put into words.

2. The artists are to blame just as much as the studios. It isn't always the record label causing the problem. I remember when La Femme Nikita season 2 was due out, it got pulled. Everyone assumed it was the band Garbage that was causing the hold up. It wasn't, it was some no name that wanted too much cash (I forget the name, I have to look it up). Let's be real, you the artist are not going to make a ton of cash off of DVD sales, unless it is a concert of your work. Period. Get over yourself.

3. To make matters worse, why is it that a studio like Sony has to pay out the ass for a song, but Shout Factory (a division of the same company) can get the same song for cheaper? All the money is coming from the same spot, why put up the fight?

4. More importantly the ones caught in the crossfire are the fans. They want everything as they remember it, and why shouldn't they have it that way? You want me to spend my cash on your stuff, it better be worth it. If you are willing to put in the effort to get things right, I am positive your loyal customers will reward you.

5. Lastly, I still feel it should be a requirement for every studio to alert the consumer to any and all changes made to a set. Be it music or video, if it is not done in conjunction of the original creative team (like Aeon Flux for instance), we the consumers should know about it.

Giles

isn't this why the Northern Exposure discs are on the expensive side, the music rights?

David Levine

It's more a case of Shout being willing to spend more on music rights because they (being a smaller studio) don't need to make as much profit per release.

At BCI, we've lost money on releases because of what we've paid for music clearance - I'd bet Shout has a few of those as well. It's a gamble you take when you love a property and want it to be done correctly.

hasslein

BCI is the greatest.

Shannon Nutt

Isn't it odd that this almost exclusively happens with TV shows, yet hardly ever with theatrical releases? Is it because there's less rights to acquire with a 2-hour movie than a 24 episode season, or do movies have better contract lawyers than TV?

The only recent movie on DVD I can remember music issues with is LOVE AT FIRST BITE (although I'm sure some forum members can point out more).

milo bloom

I was absolutely flabbergasted when that happened. I thought this would be a complete non-issue going forward, and then they still have problems.

And we definitely need better disclaimers. Even when DVD's have the warning, most folks have no idea what it means and don't find out until they purchase it and then there's no way in hell they're getting their money back from the store or the studio.

And studios wonder why people bootleg stuff.

kefrank

This is really the only answer needed in this thread. Although I would add that the courts and lawmakers responsible for copyright law (and the interpretation thererof) as it relates to recorded music are also very much to blame.

fuzzbox

Thank you. I KNEW there was a very recent example in which it made ZERO sense to have had the music replaced. That's it. I was planning on buying the Earl DVDs, till I found out about music replacements. I didn't.

GET THAT MUSICIANS??

-jason

beebs

When I hear songs I know in tv shows and movies, I always try to guess how much the original broadcast/theaterical rights cost, then syndication/television rights, and finally the home video rights. It's a game... "Hey, the music budget for this episode is already over 100K, that's like 350K for those music owners all said and done, cha-ching!".

-beebs

aintnosin

The "greedy fucks" need to realize that having their catalog songs on a WKRP, Wonder Years, or Cold Case DVD is free advertising for songs that probably don't get a lot of airplay these days.

BuckNaked2k

Only Season 1 has the original music in it, the remaining seasons are abortions with crap songs substituted in place of the originals. I believe there is a PAL version somewhere that maintains all the original music, although I may be thinking of the VHS set.

The original songs played during the show were carefully selected by the show's creators and were meant to convey very specific emotions and timeliness with the storylines. Any substitutions seriously degrade the original artistic intent. Thus, I won't buy 'em.

Here is a good read on this topic in general: Wired Article From 2005

hasslein

There is a long list of features that have music changes. The worst offender IMHO is Henry Winkler's Heroes (not to be confused with the TV series) Kansas' Carry On Wayward Son, the signature song of the film, was not licenced. There are a lot of films where music replacement is an issue...

emachine12

Jaws was missing the Olivia Newton John song on the radio (during the mass panic scene) for years until the 25th anniversary DVD finally included it.

Both Weird Science and The Breakfast Club had replacement music from VHS to LD to VCD to DVD. The music was not restored until Universal got distribution rights again.

Pearl Harbor's wonderful teaser trailer had the score replaced on the home video versions.

My Name Is Earl had music replaced for the DVD.

Beverly Hills 90210 had music replaced for the DVD.

The Fast and The Furious (2001) also had music replaced.

Heck, even 300 was in danger of music replacement on new DVD and BD pressings until Warner acknowleged the lifting of music cues. Check out 300ondvd.com for the disclaimer.

hasslein

I thought it was a Paul Anka song. Maybe he wrote it & she sang it? I haven't watched the 25th anniversary disc yet, I discussed it years ago with a MCA rep about a song missing from the laserdisc, he said it was Paul Anka.