2 disc Quo Vadis Nov 11
07-22-08, 08:39 AM
#1
DVD Talk Special Edition
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,054
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2 disc Quo Vadis Nov 11
07-22-08, 05:10 PM
#3
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bellefontaine, Ohio
Posts: 5,628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WB better not split this movie into 2 parts on the 2-disks.
WB has been getting ridiculous with splitting movies that could EASILY fit on 1 disk on two disks. Prince of the City, How the West Was Won, The Green Mile, O lucky Man, etc.
I know its probably just nagging but its a real big pet peeve of mine when they do this.
WB has been getting ridiculous with splitting movies that could EASILY fit on 1 disk on two disks. Prince of the City, How the West Was Won, The Green Mile, O lucky Man, etc.
I know its probably just nagging but its a real big pet peeve of mine when they do this.
07-23-08, 04:50 AM
#5
New Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by chris_sc77
WB better not split this movie into 2 parts on the 2-disks.
WB has been getting ridiculous with splitting movies that could EASILY fit on 1 disk on two disks. Prince of the City, How the West Was Won, The Green Mile, O lucky Man, etc.
I know its probably just nagging but its a real big pet peeve of mine when they do this.
WB has been getting ridiculous with splitting movies that could EASILY fit on 1 disk on two disks. Prince of the City, How the West Was Won, The Green Mile, O lucky Man, etc.
I know its probably just nagging but its a real big pet peeve of mine when they do this.
11-11-08, 05:50 AM
#6
Suspended
Jeffrey Kauffman (DVDTalk) has reviewed the DVD here: http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/35189/quo-vadis/
He is very disappointed with the colour (too brown/yellow), a problem also noticed by HTF (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...quo-vadis.html). The frame-by-frame chemical restoration - also touted as "ultra-resolution" - is also criticized but the sound appears good overall. Other reviewers¸ (http://www.dvdreview.com/reviews/pages/2915.shtml) note colour registration problems (misalignment of certain parts), which is not compatible with an "ultra-resolution" presentation, no matter how you slice it.
I have bolded the juicy (baracine-like) parts.
I have a laserdisc I can compare this transfer to but I will probably end up buying this DVD, if only for the improved fidelity of the Miklos Rozsa score, which is all but buried under the dialogue and sound effects in all previous presentations.
No screen captures yet.
He is very disappointed with the colour (too brown/yellow), a problem also noticed by HTF (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...quo-vadis.html). The frame-by-frame chemical restoration - also touted as "ultra-resolution" - is also criticized but the sound appears good overall. Other reviewers¸ (http://www.dvdreview.com/reviews/pages/2915.shtml) note colour registration problems (misalignment of certain parts), which is not compatible with an "ultra-resolution" presentation, no matter how you slice it.
I have bolded the juicy (baracine-like) parts.
Let me go on record as stating I have had some rather spirited debates with a number of film aficionados about some DVD transfers through the years, and I specifically have defended Warner in particular for some of their work, even when it was being decried by various savants in the industry. Most recently, for example, I found the Blu-ray transfer of How the West Was Won to be largely exceptional, even though I heard through the grapevine that even some people involved in the background of the new release were incensed that an IB Technicolor print wasn't referenced for color timing. One of my good friends, writer/director Bruce Kimmel (The Faculty, The First Nudie Musical), routinely insists that Warner's transfers are too brown, and he is not shy about proclaiming it to the world. Well, Bruce, I've come around to your way of thinking, at least with regard to this new, highly anticipated and equally highly hyped "frame by frame photochemical restoration" of one of MGM's most storied titles, Quo Vadis. You can photochemically restore a film pixel by pixel as far as I'm concerned, but if your telecine colorist doesn't know what he's doing, you're going to be in trouble, one way or the other.
The pit in my stomach appeared as soon as the screen changed from the Overture background to the credits. Did no one notice the drastic change in the red hue, even though the backgrounds for these two segments are ostensibly the same? Once the film got underway, my stomach pit only deepened, as not only were color and saturation some of the poorest I've seen recently, with anemic greens, brown flesh tones, and a Technicolor "red" that is an abomination, but, even more egregiously, lots of specks and other admittedly quickly passing blemishes that I would have thought a "frame by frame photochemical restoration" would have completely taken care of. Now some people are going to angrily proclaim, "This is the best this film has ever looked on home video," and I guess maybe (maybe) I'd agree, especially since I sold my VHS copy years and years ago (and never owned the laserdisc) and haven't seen the film broadcast since. But that really doesn't address the central issue of how good it could have been if it had been color-timed properly. I love this film, for all its faults, and I have to say that this transfer has made me quite sad.
(...)
I'm so disappointed by the color in this full frame transfer that it makes the plus side of this new "ultra-resolution" restoration harder to put in perspective. The image is very sharp indeed (to the detriment of matte and rear projection scenes, as noted above). Saturation is not all that it could be, and the color-timing is simply nowhere near what it should be. While there are occasional specks and white spots, they are few and far between, and I'm sure that in that regard this is the best Quo Vadis we've ever had on home video. There are some density issues here as well, with noticable gradations in color values and saturation sometimes from moment to moment.
The pit in my stomach appeared as soon as the screen changed from the Overture background to the credits. Did no one notice the drastic change in the red hue, even though the backgrounds for these two segments are ostensibly the same? Once the film got underway, my stomach pit only deepened, as not only were color and saturation some of the poorest I've seen recently, with anemic greens, brown flesh tones, and a Technicolor "red" that is an abomination, but, even more egregiously, lots of specks and other admittedly quickly passing blemishes that I would have thought a "frame by frame photochemical restoration" would have completely taken care of. Now some people are going to angrily proclaim, "This is the best this film has ever looked on home video," and I guess maybe (maybe) I'd agree, especially since I sold my VHS copy years and years ago (and never owned the laserdisc) and haven't seen the film broadcast since. But that really doesn't address the central issue of how good it could have been if it had been color-timed properly. I love this film, for all its faults, and I have to say that this transfer has made me quite sad.
(...)
I'm so disappointed by the color in this full frame transfer that it makes the plus side of this new "ultra-resolution" restoration harder to put in perspective. The image is very sharp indeed (to the detriment of matte and rear projection scenes, as noted above). Saturation is not all that it could be, and the color-timing is simply nowhere near what it should be. While there are occasional specks and white spots, they are few and far between, and I'm sure that in that regard this is the best Quo Vadis we've ever had on home video. There are some density issues here as well, with noticable gradations in color values and saturation sometimes from moment to moment.
No screen captures yet.
Last edited by baracine; 11-11-08 at 10:29 AM.
11-11-08, 10:05 AM
#8
Suspended
This reviewer has something nice to say about the DVD (http://www.dvdverdict.com/reviews/quovadistwodiscse.php).
I would also be remiss to ignore the stunning cinematography throughout Quo Vadis. While the camera movement lacks the finesse of a truly great cinematographer, we don't get to see films with this kind of color often anymore. The orange of the flames licking the buildings of Rome, the Deep reds of the evening sky, the dazzling purples and reds in the costumes…while they aren't always realistic, new films never have colors this bold and overwhelming. It perfectly matches the stately, bold tone of the film, and makes Quo Vadis a visual delight to behold.
(...)
That said, I can't complain about Warner Bros.'s astonishing remastering of the film elements for the DVD release. While the film's visual style begs for a bold widescreen framing, the standard video transfer (in the original aspect ratio) is near flawless, especially for a film of its age. At times, the colors almost threaten to bleed into each other, but they are kept just under blooming. The detail levels are also excellent, and the film generally looks a lot newer than it really is. The sound transfer hasn't aged nearly so well, especially given the symphonic richness in the scoring. It all sounds just a bit tinny, though I suspect the original elements didn't allow for much more. There are a few extras on the two discs, including a commentary track by film historian F.X. Feeney. There is also a featurette placing Quo Vadis in the history of the biblical epic, as well as the overture and exit music that hasn't been heard since the roadshow version of the film. While this hardly makes it a fully stocked special edition, fans of the film will be pleased by what's been included here.
(...)
That said, I can't complain about Warner Bros.'s astonishing remastering of the film elements for the DVD release. While the film's visual style begs for a bold widescreen framing, the standard video transfer (in the original aspect ratio) is near flawless, especially for a film of its age. At times, the colors almost threaten to bleed into each other, but they are kept just under blooming. The detail levels are also excellent, and the film generally looks a lot newer than it really is. The sound transfer hasn't aged nearly so well, especially given the symphonic richness in the scoring. It all sounds just a bit tinny, though I suspect the original elements didn't allow for much more. There are a few extras on the two discs, including a commentary track by film historian F.X. Feeney. There is also a featurette placing Quo Vadis in the history of the biblical epic, as well as the overture and exit music that hasn't been heard since the roadshow version of the film. While this hardly makes it a fully stocked special edition, fans of the film will be pleased by what's been included here.
11-11-08, 10:19 AM
#9
Moderator
While the film's visual style begs for a bold widescreen framing, the standard video transfer (in the original aspect ratio) is near flawless
11-11-08, 10:39 AM
#10
Suspended
The Cinemalaser's review (http://www.thecinemalaser.com/dvd_20...-vadis-dvd.htm):
Set in Rome during the early days of Christianity, QUO VADIS ($21) is old Hollywood style entertainment on a grand scale, and a film that features a tremendously talented cast, which includes Robert Taylor, Deborah Kerr, Leo Genn (Oscar Nominee), Finlay Currie and Peter Ustinov (Oscar Nominee). Sure QUO VADIS may have been filmed in Rome, but the tremendous sets, thousands of extras, the Oscar Nominated Technicolor cinematography by Robert Surtees and the superior MGM production values cements the film’s place as a great Hollywood religious epic.
In QUO VADIS, Taylor portrays heroic Roman military commander, Marcus Vinicius, who returns to a corrupt Rome, which has fallen under the reign of the mad Emperor Nero (Ustinov). While close to the seat of power, Marcus falls in love with a devout Christian named Lygia (Deborah Kerr). After burning Rome to suit his whim, the cowardly Nero places blame for the conflagration squarely on the shoulders of the Christians, which places Marcus in opposition to his Emperor. As Christians are fed to the lions, Marcus finds faith and Nero’s reign begins hurtling towards its end. The cast of QUO VADIS also features Patricia Laffan, Abraham Sofaer, Marina Berti, Buddy Baer, Felix Aylmer, Nora Swinburne, Ralph Truman, Norman Wooland and Peter Miles.
Warner Home Video has made QUO VADIS available on DVD in full screen transfer reproduces the film’s proper 1.37:1 aspect ratio. Although QUO VADIS has undergone an Ultra-Resolution Digital Transfer from restored picture elements, the presentation isn’t perfect. There are still a few registration issues in places, but for the most part, this is the absolute best QUO VADIS has ever looked in the home venue. Image sharpness and detail usually impress at the SD level, except when optical effects come into play, or when said registration issues become apparent. Colors are fairly vibrant and come close to Technicolor levels of intensity, but there are some variations in the levels of saturation. Additionally, some of the hues seem a bit off, particularly the Technicolor reds, which should appear more crimson than orange. Blacks are solid, white are usually stable. Shadow detail is quite respectable for a film that is a few years shy of its sixtieth anniversary. Blemishes are few and grain appears quite mild. Spreading the film across two discs minimizes the appearance digital compression artifacts.
QUO VADIS features a great sounding Dolby Digital monaural soundtrack. Most traces of background hiss and other audible anomalies have been cleaned up in the mastering process. Sure, fidelity is limited by the recording technology available at the time, but the sound is effective. Miklós Rózsa’s Oscar Nominated score sounds quite good with amplification applied, and remains free from noticeable distortions. The Overture and Exit Music have also been restored in this DVD edition of the film. Dialogue is very cleanly rendered and always maintains full intelligibility. A French language track has also been provided on the DVD, in addition to English, French and Spanish subtitles.
Music underscores the basic interactive menus, which allow one access to the standard scene selection and set up features, as well as a couple of nice non-fluff extras. The primary supplement is a running Audio Commentary with Critic / Film Historian F.X. Feeney. A forty-five minute retrospective Documentary entitled In The Beginning: Quo Vadis And The Genesis Of The Biblical Epic is also provided. The documentary features interviews with numerous film critics and historians who look back on the significance of QUO VADIS.
QUO VADIS is a great old time Hollywood religious epic that makes a long overdue appearance on DVD. While the presentation isn’t perfect, it should please movie buffs eager to acquire the film. Recommended.
In QUO VADIS, Taylor portrays heroic Roman military commander, Marcus Vinicius, who returns to a corrupt Rome, which has fallen under the reign of the mad Emperor Nero (Ustinov). While close to the seat of power, Marcus falls in love with a devout Christian named Lygia (Deborah Kerr). After burning Rome to suit his whim, the cowardly Nero places blame for the conflagration squarely on the shoulders of the Christians, which places Marcus in opposition to his Emperor. As Christians are fed to the lions, Marcus finds faith and Nero’s reign begins hurtling towards its end. The cast of QUO VADIS also features Patricia Laffan, Abraham Sofaer, Marina Berti, Buddy Baer, Felix Aylmer, Nora Swinburne, Ralph Truman, Norman Wooland and Peter Miles.
Warner Home Video has made QUO VADIS available on DVD in full screen transfer reproduces the film’s proper 1.37:1 aspect ratio. Although QUO VADIS has undergone an Ultra-Resolution Digital Transfer from restored picture elements, the presentation isn’t perfect. There are still a few registration issues in places, but for the most part, this is the absolute best QUO VADIS has ever looked in the home venue. Image sharpness and detail usually impress at the SD level, except when optical effects come into play, or when said registration issues become apparent. Colors are fairly vibrant and come close to Technicolor levels of intensity, but there are some variations in the levels of saturation. Additionally, some of the hues seem a bit off, particularly the Technicolor reds, which should appear more crimson than orange. Blacks are solid, white are usually stable. Shadow detail is quite respectable for a film that is a few years shy of its sixtieth anniversary. Blemishes are few and grain appears quite mild. Spreading the film across two discs minimizes the appearance digital compression artifacts.
QUO VADIS features a great sounding Dolby Digital monaural soundtrack. Most traces of background hiss and other audible anomalies have been cleaned up in the mastering process. Sure, fidelity is limited by the recording technology available at the time, but the sound is effective. Miklós Rózsa’s Oscar Nominated score sounds quite good with amplification applied, and remains free from noticeable distortions. The Overture and Exit Music have also been restored in this DVD edition of the film. Dialogue is very cleanly rendered and always maintains full intelligibility. A French language track has also been provided on the DVD, in addition to English, French and Spanish subtitles.
Music underscores the basic interactive menus, which allow one access to the standard scene selection and set up features, as well as a couple of nice non-fluff extras. The primary supplement is a running Audio Commentary with Critic / Film Historian F.X. Feeney. A forty-five minute retrospective Documentary entitled In The Beginning: Quo Vadis And The Genesis Of The Biblical Epic is also provided. The documentary features interviews with numerous film critics and historians who look back on the significance of QUO VADIS.
QUO VADIS is a great old time Hollywood religious epic that makes a long overdue appearance on DVD. While the presentation isn’t perfect, it should please movie buffs eager to acquire the film. Recommended.
Last edited by baracine; 11-11-08 at 11:00 AM.
11-11-08, 10:43 AM
#11
Suspended
How could you possibly find it odd considering the fact that the first modern commercial widescreen films were in Cinerama (1952) and Cinemascope (1953), which weren't being used yet?
Having said this, I'm sure it was reissued many times in a 1.66:1 to 1.85:1 format.
Having said this, I'm sure it was reissued many times in a 1.66:1 to 1.85:1 format.
Last edited by baracine; 11-13-08 at 08:50 AM.
11-11-08, 01:33 PM
#12
Moderator
oops, sorry got my years wrong in regards to the first commercial widescreen releases.
11-12-08, 06:37 AM
#13
Suspended
Let the colour debate begin...
I have rewatched the laserdisc last night. It's spotted and scratchy in nearly every scene but the picture is stable. Some of the Technicolor brilliance comes off in some scenes but not all. This being a laserdisc, the whites are never pure but sometimes tinged with blue and other "textural" impurities.
I watched one third of the film and didn't see any flagrant misregistration of the original three-strip material, just some scenes that are intentionally shot through gauze (or maybe petroleum jelly) to evoke the feeling of love (the scenes with Marina Berti waxing poetic about her master and the close-ups of Deborah Kerr) which naturally create a halo (out-of-focus) effect that is intended to contrast with the "harsher" scenes. Then there are the "miracle" scenes, which are frankly hazy.
Having said this, the color crimson, used in almost all army garments, the officers' plumes and as part of the everyday wear of most male citizens is all over the place. Thousands of Roman artisans must have worked overtime in underpaid post-WWII conditions dying thousands of yards of material with varying results: some of it is clearly on the orange side, besides all the variants of red that the costume designers might have intended to use. The art direction is on the flashy, multicolour side, with lots of conflicting colours thrown in to dazzle the eye and fighting for attention.
All the men's faces are tanned - as befits soldiers or, more simply, actors who have to wait for hours before each scene under the blazing Italian sun and thousands of olive-skinned Italian actors and extras.
In the burning of Rome scene, when Nero looks on from his terrace, there is a very visible wrinkle/seam in the textile backdrop representing the sky, even on laserdisc. I'm not looking forward to the glorious and detailed representation of this goof on DVD.
The Roman countryside in the opening sequence (the Appian Way) is scorched by the late summer sun and is everything but green. Artificially dying dead grass green costs money and requires a municipal permit from God knows how many governmental departments entrusted with the preservation of historical heritage. And there might have been too many palms to grease for just a few minutes of footage...
The Roman sunlight in the outdoor scenes is legendarily golden and diffused, which lends the film its particular look. Sunset or late afternoon are the preferred shooting times.
Some lush blue velvets and greens come off beautifully as do the scenes where Nero looks at his guests through emerald and ruby lenses. This, in spite of the fact that some of those giant indoor sets must have been very difficult to light properly.
The colour saturation does vary (fluctuate) often, which is the lot of all Technicolor films when the Ultra-Resolution process is not applied rigorously. The Ultra-Rez process WAS NOT applied on the new transfer, according to Robert Harris of HTF. It's a mistake (a false claim, really) on the packaging.
The soundtrack is generally solid and free from hiss, except for some annoying reel change bumps. It is infinitely better than the sound of the contemporary War and Peace (1956), which was shot at the same era and in the same Cinecitta studios.
I can't wait to get my hands on the DVD itself to check on all this. But I'm willing to give the new transfer the benefit of the doubt until then.
I watched one third of the film and didn't see any flagrant misregistration of the original three-strip material, just some scenes that are intentionally shot through gauze (or maybe petroleum jelly) to evoke the feeling of love (the scenes with Marina Berti waxing poetic about her master and the close-ups of Deborah Kerr) which naturally create a halo (out-of-focus) effect that is intended to contrast with the "harsher" scenes. Then there are the "miracle" scenes, which are frankly hazy.
Having said this, the color crimson, used in almost all army garments, the officers' plumes and as part of the everyday wear of most male citizens is all over the place. Thousands of Roman artisans must have worked overtime in underpaid post-WWII conditions dying thousands of yards of material with varying results: some of it is clearly on the orange side, besides all the variants of red that the costume designers might have intended to use. The art direction is on the flashy, multicolour side, with lots of conflicting colours thrown in to dazzle the eye and fighting for attention.
All the men's faces are tanned - as befits soldiers or, more simply, actors who have to wait for hours before each scene under the blazing Italian sun and thousands of olive-skinned Italian actors and extras.
In the burning of Rome scene, when Nero looks on from his terrace, there is a very visible wrinkle/seam in the textile backdrop representing the sky, even on laserdisc. I'm not looking forward to the glorious and detailed representation of this goof on DVD.
The Roman countryside in the opening sequence (the Appian Way) is scorched by the late summer sun and is everything but green. Artificially dying dead grass green costs money and requires a municipal permit from God knows how many governmental departments entrusted with the preservation of historical heritage. And there might have been too many palms to grease for just a few minutes of footage...
The Roman sunlight in the outdoor scenes is legendarily golden and diffused, which lends the film its particular look. Sunset or late afternoon are the preferred shooting times.
Some lush blue velvets and greens come off beautifully as do the scenes where Nero looks at his guests through emerald and ruby lenses. This, in spite of the fact that some of those giant indoor sets must have been very difficult to light properly.
The colour saturation does vary (fluctuate) often, which is the lot of all Technicolor films when the Ultra-Resolution process is not applied rigorously. The Ultra-Rez process WAS NOT applied on the new transfer, according to Robert Harris of HTF. It's a mistake (a false claim, really) on the packaging.
The soundtrack is generally solid and free from hiss, except for some annoying reel change bumps. It is infinitely better than the sound of the contemporary War and Peace (1956), which was shot at the same era and in the same Cinecitta studios.
I can't wait to get my hands on the DVD itself to check on all this. But I'm willing to give the new transfer the benefit of the doubt until then.
Last edited by baracine; 11-12-08 at 07:33 AM.
11-12-08, 06:59 AM
#14
Suspended
From the DVDTown review:
http://www.dvdtown.com/reviews/quo-vadis/6458
Video:
The movie's original 1.37:1 aspect ratio shows up well in 1.33:1 standard definition, the newly restored picture looking reasonably crisp and clear, and the Technicolor looking glorious. Delineation and detailing are as good as anything in standard def, and about the only minor concern I had with the new digital transfer is that hues sometimes showed some very slight fluctuation.
The movie's original 1.37:1 aspect ratio shows up well in 1.33:1 standard definition, the newly restored picture looking reasonably crisp and clear, and the Technicolor looking glorious. Delineation and detailing are as good as anything in standard def, and about the only minor concern I had with the new digital transfer is that hues sometimes showed some very slight fluctuation.
11-12-08, 08:05 PM
#15
Suspended
The baracine verdict:
I rushed to buy the DVD and watch it. I was floored by how much better the picture is than what my laserdisc had me used to. The colours are truly resplendent, like discovering the film all over again. The blotches, dots, grime and scatches are gone. I didn't see any misregistration other than a few tiny flickers and the rough edges produced by the blue screen process of the time in the obligatory chariot race. Fluctuation is what is to be expected of three-strip Technicolor.
I'm afraid Jeffrey Kauffman, the DVDTalk reviewer, made the mistake of confusing his idea of what Technicolor should look like with what this film should look like. Let's look at his criticism.
The background represents a wall of Roman red marble. Having never seen Roman red marble, the colorist responsible for the background of the Overture music (which, in itself, is worth the price of the whole set for collectors like myself who have been looking for it everywhere for the past 40 years) assumed it was crimson, which it is not. The film's main titles and the sets rightly show that colour to be on the orange side (with crimson speckles), which also has the added benefit of making the golden letters positively radiant.
This is what the darkest Roman red marble looks like:
It is often a lot paler.
The question is who will you trust? The ignorant and clueless computer nerd who worked for 5 minutes on the Overture title card or the technicians who worked for months on the complete chemical restoration of the entire film?
I'm afraid I didn't see any of those. No specks and no blemishes to speak of. The Roman countryside is dry, dusty and yellowed but that is explained by the dry, sunny weather and the golden diffusion of Roman sunlight. The greens are amazing in interior scenes, approaching the perfection of emerald (pure green without a hint of yellow). The Roman army's crimson tunics and togas cover the entire gamut of pure red to orange in a single frame, proof that the problem is with the dying process of the fabrics used, inasmuch as there is a "problem". The plumes are ruby-red. The flesh tones are the ruddy tanned colour that skin takes in Rome when one is under the sun or was born with an olive complexion.
Nero's colours as emperor and pontiff should be crimson and violet. These have been transformed by the costume designer into their "decadent" or "effeminate" expressions, namely vieux rose and lavender, in everything from his furniture to the plumes on his fans. Perhaps this is what Mr. Kauffman means by "abomination".
The chemical restoration is amazing. I saw, for the first time, the details and the texture of velvet, silk, leather and metal armor and a thousand dazzling sights during Nero's party. Deborah Kerr's night-blue dress in that scene is an especial test of your monitor's capabilities. It is a symphony of deep blues that absolutely captivate the eye away from the dialogue and the action. Such a blue would not be possible if there was anything wrong with the colour balance. Other colours clash outrageously and are a delight to explore. Of course, gold is everywhere. The crowd scenes finally make sense and give the impression of being there. The blacks are deep and the whites are pure. The film is rock-steady.
The sound is also very good to the point where the lyrics of the pagan hymn in Vinicius' triumph are understandable for the first time (without subtitles).
This is the best this film has ever been. I bought it to study its colours but I'm rewatching it because I'm very taken in by the story. First Christians were a lot more interesting than what passes as "Christian" these days...
P.S.: Young extra Sophia Loren is finally clearly visible at 36:50 - 36:53 (Disc 1), playing a blonde woman in the crowd that Vicinius mistakes for a second for Deborah Kerr. She is credited as "Ligia's slave girl" in IMDb. An uncredited Elizabeth Taylor appears as a kneeling and singing Christian martyr at 49:25 - 50:00 (Disc 2).
P.P.S.: The 42 min documentary about the history of epic movies is in widescreen and very well made. Only criticism: No mention is made at all of The Sign of the Cross, which started out as a copyright-cheating theatrical ripoff of the novel Quo Vadis on Broadway in 1896 - a year after the novel came out - and ended up a rather decent Cecil B. De Mille B&W epic in the 30's. In that one, the valourous Roman centurion dies in the arena along with his girlfriend.
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quo_Vadis_(novel)):
Charles Laughton (Nero), Claudette Colbert (Poppea) and Fredric March (Marcus) in The Sign of the Cross (1932)
I'm afraid Jeffrey Kauffman, the DVDTalk reviewer, made the mistake of confusing his idea of what Technicolor should look like with what this film should look like. Let's look at his criticism.
The pit in my stomach appeared as soon as the screen changed from the Overture background to the credits. Did no one notice the drastic change in the red hue, even though the backgrounds for these two segments are ostensibly the same?
This is what the darkest Roman red marble looks like:
It is often a lot paler.
The question is who will you trust? The ignorant and clueless computer nerd who worked for 5 minutes on the Overture title card or the technicians who worked for months on the complete chemical restoration of the entire film?
Once the film got underway, my stomach pit only deepened, as not only were color and saturation some of the poorest I've seen recently, with anemic greens, brown flesh tones, and a Technicolor "red" that is an abomination, but, even more egregiously, lots of specks and other admittedly quickly passing blemishes that I would have thought a "frame by frame photochemical restoration" would have completely taken care of.
Nero's colours as emperor and pontiff should be crimson and violet. These have been transformed by the costume designer into their "decadent" or "effeminate" expressions, namely vieux rose and lavender, in everything from his furniture to the plumes on his fans. Perhaps this is what Mr. Kauffman means by "abomination".
The chemical restoration is amazing. I saw, for the first time, the details and the texture of velvet, silk, leather and metal armor and a thousand dazzling sights during Nero's party. Deborah Kerr's night-blue dress in that scene is an especial test of your monitor's capabilities. It is a symphony of deep blues that absolutely captivate the eye away from the dialogue and the action. Such a blue would not be possible if there was anything wrong with the colour balance. Other colours clash outrageously and are a delight to explore. Of course, gold is everywhere. The crowd scenes finally make sense and give the impression of being there. The blacks are deep and the whites are pure. The film is rock-steady.
The sound is also very good to the point where the lyrics of the pagan hymn in Vinicius' triumph are understandable for the first time (without subtitles).
This is the best this film has ever been. I bought it to study its colours but I'm rewatching it because I'm very taken in by the story. First Christians were a lot more interesting than what passes as "Christian" these days...
P.S.: Young extra Sophia Loren is finally clearly visible at 36:50 - 36:53 (Disc 1), playing a blonde woman in the crowd that Vicinius mistakes for a second for Deborah Kerr. She is credited as "Ligia's slave girl" in IMDb. An uncredited Elizabeth Taylor appears as a kneeling and singing Christian martyr at 49:25 - 50:00 (Disc 2).
P.P.S.: The 42 min documentary about the history of epic movies is in widescreen and very well made. Only criticism: No mention is made at all of The Sign of the Cross, which started out as a copyright-cheating theatrical ripoff of the novel Quo Vadis on Broadway in 1896 - a year after the novel came out - and ended up a rather decent Cecil B. De Mille B&W epic in the 30's. In that one, the valourous Roman centurion dies in the arena along with his girlfriend.
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quo_Vadis_(novel)):
1896 was also the year that playwright-actor-manager Wilson Barrett produced his successful play The Sign of the Cross onstage. Although Barrett never acknowledged it, several elements in the play strongly resemble those in Quo Vadis. In both, a Roman soldier named Marcus falls in love with a Christian woman and wishes to "possess" her. (In the novel, her name is Ligia, in the play she is Mercia.) Nero, Tigellinus and Poppea are major characters in both the play and novel, and in both, Poppea lusts after Marcus. Petronius, however, does not appear in The Sign of the Cross, and the ending of the play diverges from that of Quo Vadis.
Charles Laughton (Nero), Claudette Colbert (Poppea) and Fredric March (Marcus) in The Sign of the Cross (1932)
Last edited by baracine; 11-15-08 at 06:14 PM.
11-13-08, 08:28 PM
#17
Suspended
A note on the sound and the music:
The sound has been improved with more bass and resonance. It goes a long way in making Rozsa's score audible, despite its being severely underdialed as was the way with most MGM scores of the time. The Overture and Exit music are particularly well preserved and rendered. But several other moments shine through with both force and delicacy such as Nero's madness and death. The rumble of Rome burning and crumbling, the rattle of the chariot wheels and the roar of the circus crowds are almost threatening in their effect.
The sound has been improved with more bass and resonance. It goes a long way in making Rozsa's score audible, despite its being severely underdialed as was the way with most MGM scores of the time. The Overture and Exit music are particularly well preserved and rendered. But several other moments shine through with both force and delicacy such as Nero's madness and death. The rumble of Rome burning and crumbling, the rattle of the chariot wheels and the roar of the circus crowds are almost threatening in their effect.
11-14-08, 05:51 AM
#18
Suspended
A note on the lighting and photography:
The scenes of spectacle are shot in the sunlight or if indoors, in a "flat" or gaudy lighting setup designed to bring out all the colours. The scenes of the Christian household of General Plautius, the death scene of Petronius, the slaves' prison, the populace running from the fire and all the other death scenes, are shot in elaborate Rembrandt set-ups (chioroscuro lighting) designed to bring out the tridimensionality of the picture, as if to show that these are more profound and introspective moments than the rest of the picture. The beauty of most of these elaborate lighting set-ups only comes out in this DVD.
The scenes of spectacle are shot in the sunlight or if indoors, in a "flat" or gaudy lighting setup designed to bring out all the colours. The scenes of the Christian household of General Plautius, the death scene of Petronius, the slaves' prison, the populace running from the fire and all the other death scenes, are shot in elaborate Rembrandt set-ups (chioroscuro lighting) designed to bring out the tridimensionality of the picture, as if to show that these are more profound and introspective moments than the rest of the picture. The beauty of most of these elaborate lighting set-ups only comes out in this DVD.
Last edited by baracine; 11-14-08 at 10:20 AM.
11-14-08, 06:18 AM
#19
Suspended
A note on the acting:
Everyone agrees about the uniform quality of the acting of Peter Ustinov, Patricia Laffan, Leo Genn, Deborah Kerr, Felix Aylmer, Nora Swinburne, Rosalie Crutchley, Finlay Currie, Marina Berti, Peter Miles and most of the other principals. Unfortunately, if you've ever seen The Sign of the Cross and if it is legitimate to use it as a comparison, the Marcus character of Fredric March brings much more subtlety and acting ability to the character of Marcus in the face of the same conflicting situations of faith and courage than does Robert Taylor. You have to understand that Robert Taylor is basically a tiger playing a tiger. And that is a rare quality in itself. But he still manages to make you believe at times that a man like himself could have a man like Petronius as an uncle, which is very amusing.
Everyone agrees about the uniform quality of the acting of Peter Ustinov, Patricia Laffan, Leo Genn, Deborah Kerr, Felix Aylmer, Nora Swinburne, Rosalie Crutchley, Finlay Currie, Marina Berti, Peter Miles and most of the other principals. Unfortunately, if you've ever seen The Sign of the Cross and if it is legitimate to use it as a comparison, the Marcus character of Fredric March brings much more subtlety and acting ability to the character of Marcus in the face of the same conflicting situations of faith and courage than does Robert Taylor. You have to understand that Robert Taylor is basically a tiger playing a tiger. And that is a rare quality in itself. But he still manages to make you believe at times that a man like himself could have a man like Petronius as an uncle, which is very amusing.
Last edited by baracine; 11-14-08 at 10:26 AM.
11-14-08, 06:46 AM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Simi Valley, CA
Posts: 570
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For some reason, the disc set never showed up this past Tuesday in any of the local So Cal markets. Reliable, local DVD retail outlets are apparently a thing of the past.
11-17-08, 09:13 PM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Simi Valley, CA
Posts: 570
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WB better not split this movie into 2 parts on the 2-disks.
WB has been getting ridiculous with splitting movies that could EASILY fit on 1 disk on two disks. Prince of the City, How the West Was Won, The Green Mile, O lucky Man, etc.
I know its probably just nagging but its a real big pet peeve of mine when they do this.
WB has been getting ridiculous with splitting movies that could EASILY fit on 1 disk on two disks. Prince of the City, How the West Was Won, The Green Mile, O lucky Man, etc.
I know its probably just nagging but its a real big pet peeve of mine when they do this.
11-18-08, 05:26 AM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Richmond, MA
Posts: 357
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Those wanting to see what those in America are missing can go to this link in the International Forum: http://forum.dvdtalk.com/internation...-2-france.html
11-22-08, 04:15 PM
#25
New Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's no problem with that because the film was originally shown with an intermission and the audience would have had a 10 minute break between parts 1 and 2. Like many films of similar length, the film was never intended to be shown without a break.