Summer Sci-Fi Challenge - Discussion Thread
07-01-08 | 08:57 PM
#51
DVD Talk Limited Edition
I can see the value of listening to commentaries as an entry. In the past, I have used these challenges to go through my "to watch" list and my "complete" list (DVDs where I have watched the film but not gone through the special features). Some people, myself included, like to watch everything included on a particular DVD.
Since I'm out of town until Sunday, my challenge entries are at the mercy of my mom's DVD collection but once I get home it's ST: Voyager S7 and then a bunch of commentary tracks (Alien Nation movies, Robocop, Serenity).
Since I'm out of town until Sunday, my challenge entries are at the mercy of my mom's DVD collection but once I get home it's ST: Voyager S7 and then a bunch of commentary tracks (Alien Nation movies, Robocop, Serenity).
07-01-08 | 09:19 PM
#52
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
That's the thing, they are "extras". You can watch them on your own time. This is a challenge to watch a greater variety of films than one would usually. It's not a challenge to see how many hours you can blow in front of the TV. I mentioned this over in the Horror thread, but it's become where we don't think of these as movies anymore. They are 7.1-Super-DTS-fully-loaded-extra'd-directors-cut-tin-collectors-boxed-DVDs. Someone actually asked if a movie seen in a theaters counts! DVDs are the medium. The FILMS are the thing, and these challenges are to celebrate that. It's not to find every loophole and get 350 titles in where half of them are A&E biography episodes. We do these because we love the movies. That's all I'm saying. LOVE THE MOVIES! Watch the extras next month. Or even watch them now, but if you count them toward your total, you are missing the whole point. We don't want to get contentious, but I should think it self-evident that in a movie challenge where you are to watch multiple films, that the idea is to watch multiple films, not the same ones over and over again. Also, it's to watch the films, not drunken actors blowing off steam about the movie on an alternate soundtrack.
07-01-08 | 09:44 PM
#53
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally Posted by caligulathegod
I feel the same way, which I why I'm not objecting beyond a plea that entrants have some sense of what we're doing here. Why would if even occur to a person in a challenge to watch multiple movies that they should watch a movie, then watch it again with what is basically idle chatter from people involved with the film and count it? Let's be honest, commentaries have never reached their full potential. Other than the rare commentary by an historian or a more informative filmmaker like a Scorcese or even John Waters, most are simply banal chatfests. While they can be interesting in their own right, you can watch them anytime. This is a challenge to watch a variety of movies. While no one is going to hit 300+ (I'm only aiming for 31), it's pointless to waste it on the same movies over and over again. Watching a season of X-files is one thing, but at least it's different stories each time.
I treat the commentary as a whole new experience to the film/show and would never doubt their validity in any challenge. The big thing for me is that I like to listen to the commentary soon after watching the movie/show such that it is fresh in my mind. If I were to wait a month, for example, that wouldn't be as valuable, I would find myself trying to watch the movie/show and listen to the dialog instead of the commentary.
If you don't like commentaries, that's fine, but for those of us who treat them with high regard, I would say that you're missing the point. LOVE THE COMMENTARIES!
07-01-08 | 10:05 PM
#54
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
You can also sit there, watch the movie, then read a back issue of Cinemafantastique or even a "making of" book. It still doesn't count as watching a separate movie. Doesn't matter how illuminating a commentary or other extra is, it's still not the same as watching another movie. Doesn't matter if James Cameron shows up in person on your doorstep with a sixer of Sapporo, buys pizza, and sits with you to watch Terminator 2 10 minutes after you finished watching your DVD of Terminator 2. It's still contrary to the spirit of the challenge to watch it again and count it. Why not ask him to sit through the Abyss or Aliens? Also, a movie is not just a visual experience. It's dialog, sound design, music, etc. A commentary is just a supplement. I love them, too, but it's daft to consider it the same experience as watching the movie, and even more to count it on a subsequent viewing. Again, this is all just opinion and everyone is welcome to do as he likes, but if I can shame one person into taking these challenges even remotely seriously, then I've done my job. Why not expose yourself to as many movies as possible rather than exploit a loophole and watch the same movie over and over again?
Last edited by caligulathegod; 07-01-08 at 10:07 PM.
07-01-08 | 10:35 PM
#55
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Obviously we are going to agree to disagree on this fact. I definitely get more of an "experience" out of *some* commentaries than I do watching the movie.
I'm not sure what you mean by "loophole." Commentaries have been allowed on this challenge, the academy awards challenge, and the holiday challenge. I can't speak for the horror movie challenge, as I have never participated. The person who started this challenge (in this case Mister Peepers) lists the rules right there on the first post, I'm not sure how it is a loophole?
I really resent the fact that you assume that if someone (like myself) includes a commentary in their challenge list, then they aren't "taking these challenges even remotely seriously." Really? The way I see it, it is to immerse yourself into a world of Sci-Fi (in this case.) If that means that I listen to the commentary for Stargate (which I am doing right now), how am I not achieving this? Why blindly go for quantity, when you know there is quality in commentaries?
I take these challenges as seriously as you do, or anyone else. If you look at my lists, I try to add something to this challenge by putting comments for each of my items (thanks to Trevor from the Holiday movie challenge for opening me up to that.) I don't know if anyone reads them, but if someone else were to post comments, I would read them and maybe get some additional ideas for my viewings.
I'm not sure what you mean by "loophole." Commentaries have been allowed on this challenge, the academy awards challenge, and the holiday challenge. I can't speak for the horror movie challenge, as I have never participated. The person who started this challenge (in this case Mister Peepers) lists the rules right there on the first post, I'm not sure how it is a loophole?
I really resent the fact that you assume that if someone (like myself) includes a commentary in their challenge list, then they aren't "taking these challenges even remotely seriously." Really? The way I see it, it is to immerse yourself into a world of Sci-Fi (in this case.) If that means that I listen to the commentary for Stargate (which I am doing right now), how am I not achieving this? Why blindly go for quantity, when you know there is quality in commentaries?
I take these challenges as seriously as you do, or anyone else. If you look at my lists, I try to add something to this challenge by putting comments for each of my items (thanks to Trevor from the Holiday movie challenge for opening me up to that.) I don't know if anyone reads them, but if someone else were to post comments, I would read them and maybe get some additional ideas for my viewings.
Last edited by Numes; 07-01-08 at 10:38 PM.
07-01-08 | 11:29 PM
#56
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
You get me wrong. I love commentaries. I've multiple copies of several DVDs I've kept just for the different commentaries. Heck, I have laserdiscs I've kept because I still love the commentaries and they aren't available on DVD (the Deluxe Wizard of Oz, and Taxi Driver). I've even seen Evil Dead with live-in-person commentary from the guy who did the special effects and last House on the Left in 16mm with all the bad guys doing a live-in-person commentary and count them among the defining experiences of my life. Everyone is welcome to do as he wishes. It is indeed in the rules. I still believe it's a loophole in the sense that the challenge is to watch a variety of movies and watching the same movie twice is antithetical to the spirit of the challenge. We've just become so DVD-centric that somehow the extras have become conflated with the actual product. Commentaries are a supplement. They can illuminate, they can bore. There are good commentaries, and there are bad commentaries. What they are not is coequal with the film itself. By all means, feel free to watch them. This is Sci Fi, not Horror. With movies like the Abyss, this isn't going to be a 100 in a month challenge. Not to mention, it is summertime. No one is going to spend 18 hours a day watching movies like in October. Why not go ahead and watch the commentary for the fun of watching the commentary? Counting toward your list isn't necessary. Just consider it as part of the movie itself, like you watched a 4 hour movie. Counting it twice is just tacky, IMO. Or better yet, pop in a different movie and fully experience the challenge as it should be.
Actually, I don't think the rules even mention watching the same movie twice counts. It just says you can count the commentary as a viewing. There was a clarification that allowed this, though. I'm just hoping to convince folks the error in this rather than try to change the rules.
Actually, I don't think the rules even mention watching the same movie twice counts. It just says you can count the commentary as a viewing. There was a clarification that allowed this, though. I'm just hoping to convince folks the error in this rather than try to change the rules.
Last edited by caligulathegod; 07-01-08 at 11:49 PM.
07-01-08 | 11:47 PM
#57
DVD Talk Gold Edition
It's obvious that we are at an impasse here.
Your interpretation of the challenge /= My interpretation of the challenge
Your definition to "fully experience the challenge" /= My definition to "fully experience the challenge"
We can't get past these two points, so there's not really not a whole lot more to say.
As for the rules, it's not an error. The point is to allow you to view the title and then watch it again with commentary and they both will count. I'm sure anyone here can validate that statement. I'm going to list all my commentaries because they are most certainly worthy and in the spirit of the challenge. In addition, I like to comment on the commentaries in my challenge list.
Your interpretation of the challenge /= My interpretation of the challenge
Your definition to "fully experience the challenge" /= My definition to "fully experience the challenge"
We can't get past these two points, so there's not really not a whole lot more to say.
As for the rules, it's not an error. The point is to allow you to view the title and then watch it again with commentary and they both will count. I'm sure anyone here can validate that statement. I'm going to list all my commentaries because they are most certainly worthy and in the spirit of the challenge. In addition, I like to comment on the commentaries in my challenge list.
07-02-08 | 03:52 AM
#58
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Hopefully, this is coming across as it is intended, as a spirited debate rather than trying to lay down any law or anything. Feel free to disagree with me. My opinion means nothing more than the next guy's.
You don't see that it is still essentially the same film but with an enhancement? If you watch The Wizard of Oz and then watch it again with Dark Side of the Moon, does that count as two films? What if you turn down the soundtrack and just make armpit fart noises the whole movie? What if you watch Scent of a Woman, then watch it again....on weed! Does that count as two movies?
How about something like Blade Runner? By following the rules and exploiting the loopholes it could count as 9 films! There's the final cut with its three commentaries, there's the Director's cut, the Theatrical cut, the International cut, then the Workprint and its commentary. Sometimes we're talking seconds worth of difference. It's "legal", and you could almost justify it as three different experiences, but is it right? I'm sorry, you haven't watched 9 films, you watched basically the same film 9 times. It's like going to Taco Bell. You might have ordered from 10 items off the menu, but you've still just eaten the same lettuce, beef, tomato, refried beans, sour cream and some bread.
Perhaps if it were the Summer DVD challenge it would be different. One could be fully justified in exploiting the entire DVD and all its features (in which case I would still argue you watched one full DVD, not multiple ones). It's not, though. It's a Summer Sci-Fi challenge. It's been liberalized by allowing in TV with a fair method of counting them. That's fitting since there's really a lot of TV Sci-Fi. But, if this were a chicken wing eating contest, you couldn't sit there and suck on the dry bones and count it as another wing.
Again, do what thou wilt, but wouldn't it be more fun to expand your horizons rather than rehash the same scenery over and over again? Is this for the love of the movies, or the silver platters on the shelf?
Anyway, I've said all I need to on the subject. I reeeeeally don't want it to turn into the Horror debacle. I'm just expressing an opinion and backing it up with explanation and discussion. I'm not trying to lay down any law. I'm not going to complain if anyone does count commentaries. I just want to say why I disagree. Feel free to disagree with me. That's what makes the discussions fun.
You don't see that it is still essentially the same film but with an enhancement? If you watch The Wizard of Oz and then watch it again with Dark Side of the Moon, does that count as two films? What if you turn down the soundtrack and just make armpit fart noises the whole movie? What if you watch Scent of a Woman, then watch it again....on weed! Does that count as two movies?
How about something like Blade Runner? By following the rules and exploiting the loopholes it could count as 9 films! There's the final cut with its three commentaries, there's the Director's cut, the Theatrical cut, the International cut, then the Workprint and its commentary. Sometimes we're talking seconds worth of difference. It's "legal", and you could almost justify it as three different experiences, but is it right? I'm sorry, you haven't watched 9 films, you watched basically the same film 9 times. It's like going to Taco Bell. You might have ordered from 10 items off the menu, but you've still just eaten the same lettuce, beef, tomato, refried beans, sour cream and some bread.
Perhaps if it were the Summer DVD challenge it would be different. One could be fully justified in exploiting the entire DVD and all its features (in which case I would still argue you watched one full DVD, not multiple ones). It's not, though. It's a Summer Sci-Fi challenge. It's been liberalized by allowing in TV with a fair method of counting them. That's fitting since there's really a lot of TV Sci-Fi. But, if this were a chicken wing eating contest, you couldn't sit there and suck on the dry bones and count it as another wing.
Again, do what thou wilt, but wouldn't it be more fun to expand your horizons rather than rehash the same scenery over and over again? Is this for the love of the movies, or the silver platters on the shelf?
Anyway, I've said all I need to on the subject. I reeeeeally don't want it to turn into the Horror debacle. I'm just expressing an opinion and backing it up with explanation and discussion. I'm not trying to lay down any law. I'm not going to complain if anyone does count commentaries. I just want to say why I disagree. Feel free to disagree with me. That's what makes the discussions fun.
07-02-08 | 09:26 AM
#59
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Yes, it's most certainly a spirited debate. 
I understand your philosophy on the subject, but the reason I keep replying is because you don't seem to even recognize/acknowledge my (or others) philosophy on this challenge.
I have said this about 3-4 times now - my interpretation of the challenge is to immerse yourself into Sci-Fi, NOT necessarily watch as many different titles as you can. That is NOT the point of the challenge. If you want to make that your focus, by all means. Your choice on the Sci-Fi challenge is to spread your viewing out to as many different movies/shows as as you can. Our fundamental viewpoints can't be resolved on the subject.
No one's claiming that watching/listening to a commentary counts as another film, but it does count as another experience (yes, it is most certainly a brand new experience to me) and therefore counts in the challenge.
This is the kind of statement that teeters this discussion between spirited and not-so-spirited:
As I have said before, I AM expanding my horizons by listening to commentaries. I'm doing this for fun, to focus my viewing/listening on Sci-Fi titles this month. If you think that I am doing this for a "silver platter," as you put it, then you are grossly mistaken.
I have never participated in a challenge that has prizes, so I'm not sure if some of your comments are stemming from that or not? Like I said, these are just fun for me, and to have an excuse to focus my viewing during a month...I'm sure I won't be in the top 3 anyways.
I understand your philosophy on the subject, but the reason I keep replying is because you don't seem to even recognize/acknowledge my (or others) philosophy on this challenge.I have said this about 3-4 times now - my interpretation of the challenge is to immerse yourself into Sci-Fi, NOT necessarily watch as many different titles as you can. That is NOT the point of the challenge. If you want to make that your focus, by all means. Your choice on the Sci-Fi challenge is to spread your viewing out to as many different movies/shows as as you can. Our fundamental viewpoints can't be resolved on the subject.
No one's claiming that watching/listening to a commentary counts as another film, but it does count as another experience (yes, it is most certainly a brand new experience to me) and therefore counts in the challenge.
This is the kind of statement that teeters this discussion between spirited and not-so-spirited:
Originally Posted by caligulathegod
Again, do what thou wilt, but wouldn't it be more fun to expand your horizons rather than rehash the same scenery over and over again? Is this for the love of the movies, or the silver platters on the shelf?
I have never participated in a challenge that has prizes, so I'm not sure if some of your comments are stemming from that or not? Like I said, these are just fun for me, and to have an excuse to focus my viewing during a month...I'm sure I won't be in the top 3 anyways.
07-02-08 | 10:00 AM
#60
Challenge Guru & Comic Nerd
Please take the following in the spirit of debate. I follow your logic, argree with you on some points, and am not trying to attack.
I think the bigger question is why do you care if someone counts Blade Runner nine times?
This is a challenge, the numbers mean nothing. Even if you think your numbers are more "pure" and that person x "cheated". Why care? Why mention it?
If you like challenges like this, just sit back, watch whatever you want, and have fun.
Not to sound snarky or anything, but I kind of like your Blade Runner "idea". I've only seen it once in my life, bought the boxset, and have always wanted to fully explore the film and watch the entire boxset at some point. I might just do it this month. And could it even count as ten viewings, isn't there at least one full-length documentary?
I think the bigger question is why do you care if someone counts Blade Runner nine times?
This is a challenge, the numbers mean nothing. Even if you think your numbers are more "pure" and that person x "cheated". Why care? Why mention it?
If you like challenges like this, just sit back, watch whatever you want, and have fun.
Not to sound snarky or anything, but I kind of like your Blade Runner "idea". I've only seen it once in my life, bought the boxset, and have always wanted to fully explore the film and watch the entire boxset at some point. I might just do it this month. And could it even count as ten viewings, isn't there at least one full-length documentary?
07-02-08 | 10:14 AM
#61
DVD Talk Special Edition
while i wouldnt personally do multiple viewings of one movie bc im new to this genre and rather explore stuff, but i dont see anything wrong with someone who watches a movie enjoys it and wants more out of it. i know with my horror movies i always watch commentaries bc theyre usually more then amusing as much as watching the movie itself.
either way i was impressed with firefly's premiere episode not sure why i havent watched it since i bought it a yr ago.
either way i was impressed with firefly's premiere episode not sure why i havent watched it since i bought it a yr ago.
07-02-08 | 01:18 PM
#62
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally Posted by Numes
I have never participated in a challenge that has prizes
If I have different versions of a movie, I usually watch them back to back just so I can see what notable changes there are. When I hit my Blade Runner set I'll do the same.
At this point though, I have enough movies I haven't seen so that I'm just watching new things and not different versions of the same movie. If I listen to any commentaries it'll only be Rifftrax/Cinematic Titanic/MST3K type things and I won't watch the original unless it's just that awesome of a movie.
07-02-08 | 01:48 PM
#63
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
I think commentaries can make the viewing a different experience. Agreed, many of them are of the "Hey, remember the day we filmed that scene? The caterer's food was awful that day" crap, and are pretty worthless, but some can really change and add to the viewing of the film. The point of "director's cut" where the difference is seven seconds is a good example (I prefer if they include that extra content as an option rather than including two "full" versions of the movie, because I'm not going to watch the whole movie again for a single additional scene).
Drastically different versions are a different story, like the aforementioned Blade Runner.
I keep telling myself I'm going to dive into some of these megasets (Superman, Blade Runner, Alien) but I just don't commit the time. Regarding commentaries, I personally much prefer the little-used text/subtitle commentary like in Ghostbusters (just watched).
I'm using this as a way to help direct my viewing of the Unwatched Movies List *shrug* I'm already behind and there's no way I'll even come in the top 5-10 if it's based solely on quantity, so it's definitely not for the thrill of competition.
The argument of "expose yourself to more movies" vs "go deep with one or a few" is an interesting one. I think both viewpoints have value, and both could be abused. I could watch the director's commentary for a classic film I've already seen, and get more out of it than a viewing of a new title when I'm half asleep on the couch; and watching any new-to-me title could be more "meaningful" than listening to the Klingon commentary of a Star Trek movie. I didn't listen to it, but I know there's lots of "deep" stuff on the Matrix commentaries that could expand my understanding of the directors intent.
Drastically different versions are a different story, like the aforementioned Blade Runner.
I keep telling myself I'm going to dive into some of these megasets (Superman, Blade Runner, Alien) but I just don't commit the time. Regarding commentaries, I personally much prefer the little-used text/subtitle commentary like in Ghostbusters (just watched).
I'm using this as a way to help direct my viewing of the Unwatched Movies List *shrug* I'm already behind and there's no way I'll even come in the top 5-10 if it's based solely on quantity, so it's definitely not for the thrill of competition.
The argument of "expose yourself to more movies" vs "go deep with one or a few" is an interesting one. I think both viewpoints have value, and both could be abused. I could watch the director's commentary for a classic film I've already seen, and get more out of it than a viewing of a new title when I'm half asleep on the couch; and watching any new-to-me title could be more "meaningful" than listening to the Klingon commentary of a Star Trek movie. I didn't listen to it, but I know there's lots of "deep" stuff on the Matrix commentaries that could expand my understanding of the directors intent.
Last edited by tonyc3742; 07-02-08 at 01:51 PM.
07-02-08 | 02:33 PM
#64
DVD Talk Limited Edition
It is also worth mentioning that not everyone has access to Netflix or BB so the DVDs you already own might be the only sci-fi films you can use to participate in the challenge. This isn't like the Oscar challenge where you have TCM showing eligible films 24/7 for the entire month and it's not like the sci-fi channel shows nothing but quality sci-fi programming.
dtcarson: the Matrix commentaries with Cornell West are absolutely fascinating IMHO. I disliked the third film and now I will only watch it with that commentary going.
And now onto Aliens which I've seen at least one dozen times but it's a great film and one of the eight sci-fi DVDs my mom owns.
dtcarson: the Matrix commentaries with Cornell West are absolutely fascinating IMHO. I disliked the third film and now I will only watch it with that commentary going.
And now onto Aliens which I've seen at least one dozen times but it's a great film and one of the eight sci-fi DVDs my mom owns.
07-02-08 | 04:57 PM
#65
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
In retrospect, watching Blade Runner 9 times is just geeky enough to fit in with a summer Sci-Fi challenge
"We're going to the beach to get some sun, wanna come?" "No, I'm watching Blade Runner 9 times in a row."
I rescind my objection, but still reserve doing so during the Horror challenge.
"We're going to the beach to get some sun, wanna come?" "No, I'm watching Blade Runner 9 times in a row."
I rescind my objection, but still reserve doing so during the Horror challenge.
Last edited by caligulathegod; 07-02-08 at 05:00 PM.
07-02-08 | 05:56 PM
#66
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally Posted by caligulathegod
I rescind my objection, but still reserve doing so during the Horror challenge.
07-02-08 | 08:37 PM
#67
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Damn, and I thought I'd extricated myself from this.
They aren't that much different though. Perhaps the tone is different, or one has more footage or some different music cues, but it's still Dawn of the Dead. It's like if one day I go to work wearing a hat and the next day I just get a haircut. It's still me. It's like we're all a bunch of Lois Lanes and we can't recognize Clark Kent (the guy we work with every day) because he took his glasses off and he's wearing tights. Commentaries, director's cuts, extended cuts, original mono and 5.1 stereo remixes, international cuts, Double Secret Probation editions, etc. are just enhancements of the same movie, not entirely new experiences. It's always going to be Fran, Peter, Roger and Flyboy in a mall. No one is looking at it objectively. Yeah, we all enjoy watching our favorite movies in every possible permutation. And there's nothing stopping anyone from doing so. It just seems more tasteful and truthful to list them so:
1: Dawn of the Dead:Cannes Cut/Argento cut/Theatrical cut/Director's commentary
2: A different movie
3: Yet another completely different movie.
4: A movie I've never even seen before
You get the idea. The last Horror challenge got off track because people got obsessed with sheer numbers rather than the joy of watching a variety of films with our Interweb friends (that's what most of the fighting was about). It's 100 movies in a month, not one movie a hundred times. If you want to experience your favorite film again, but with armpit fart noises...on weed, then do so. It's not a competition. The fun is in watching the movies and seeing what everyone else is watching. When we're reading your lists, it's just more interesting to see breadth than 5 listings of the same movie ("ooh, I watched the original one, then I watched the one with extra sparkles on the box").
But, yeah. Ultimately, who cares, I suppose. Do what you want. I was just expounding a philosophy, anyway.
They aren't that much different though. Perhaps the tone is different, or one has more footage or some different music cues, but it's still Dawn of the Dead. It's like if one day I go to work wearing a hat and the next day I just get a haircut. It's still me. It's like we're all a bunch of Lois Lanes and we can't recognize Clark Kent (the guy we work with every day) because he took his glasses off and he's wearing tights. Commentaries, director's cuts, extended cuts, original mono and 5.1 stereo remixes, international cuts, Double Secret Probation editions, etc. are just enhancements of the same movie, not entirely new experiences. It's always going to be Fran, Peter, Roger and Flyboy in a mall. No one is looking at it objectively. Yeah, we all enjoy watching our favorite movies in every possible permutation. And there's nothing stopping anyone from doing so. It just seems more tasteful and truthful to list them so:
1: Dawn of the Dead:Cannes Cut/Argento cut/Theatrical cut/Director's commentary
2: A different movie
3: Yet another completely different movie.
4: A movie I've never even seen before
You get the idea. The last Horror challenge got off track because people got obsessed with sheer numbers rather than the joy of watching a variety of films with our Interweb friends (that's what most of the fighting was about). It's 100 movies in a month, not one movie a hundred times. If you want to experience your favorite film again, but with armpit fart noises...on weed, then do so. It's not a competition. The fun is in watching the movies and seeing what everyone else is watching. When we're reading your lists, it's just more interesting to see breadth than 5 listings of the same movie ("ooh, I watched the original one, then I watched the one with extra sparkles on the box").
But, yeah. Ultimately, who cares, I suppose. Do what you want. I was just expounding a philosophy, anyway.
Last edited by caligulathegod; 07-02-08 at 08:41 PM.
07-02-08 | 08:49 PM
#68
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Wasn't Evil Dead 2 sort of a "requel" of Evil Dead 1? Would that count as two different movies, since it was primarily the tone that changed?
Also, are there any actual "entirely new experiences" in film today, especially for aficionados?
Some of your examples of "new versions" are purely cosmetic and don't change the perception of the actual film, no argument here. Some versions do make it almost another movie.
To play devil's advocate from your last post--does that mean movies I have seen before (maybe 10, 20 years ago) shouldn't count? It has to be "entirely new" to really count, even though I might not remember it and though the movie might not have changed in the intervening years, *I* have?
Admittedly I'm new to these challenge threads, so please don't think I'm trying to rock the boat or change the world here, I enjoy intellectual disagreements and based solely on this thread (not any predecessors) it seems like there's room for interpretation.
Also, are there any actual "entirely new experiences" in film today, especially for aficionados?
Some of your examples of "new versions" are purely cosmetic and don't change the perception of the actual film, no argument here. Some versions do make it almost another movie.
To play devil's advocate from your last post--does that mean movies I have seen before (maybe 10, 20 years ago) shouldn't count? It has to be "entirely new" to really count, even though I might not remember it and though the movie might not have changed in the intervening years, *I* have?
Admittedly I'm new to these challenge threads, so please don't think I'm trying to rock the boat or change the world here, I enjoy intellectual disagreements and based solely on this thread (not any predecessors) it seems like there's room for interpretation.
07-02-08 | 08:56 PM
#69
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally Posted by caligulathegod
07-02-08 | 09:00 PM
#70
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally Posted by caligulathegod
It's 100 movies in a month, not one movie a hundred times.
I'm doing a MST3K marathon Friday. Anyone else have marathon plans?
07-02-08 | 09:05 PM
#71
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Wasn't Evil Dead 2 sort of a "requel" of Evil Dead 1? Would that count as two different movies, since it was primarily the tone that changed?
Also, are there any actual "entirely new experiences" in film today, especially for aficionados?
Some of your examples of "new versions" are purely cosmetic and don't change the perception of the actual film, no argument here. Some versions do make it almost another movie.
To play devil's advocate from your last post--does that mean movies I have seen before (maybe 10, 20 years ago) shouldn't count? It has to be "entirely new" to really count, even though I might not remember it and though the movie might not have changed in the intervening years, *I* have?
Admittedly I'm new to these challenge threads, so please don't think I'm trying to rock the boat or change the world here, I enjoy intellectual disagreements and based solely on this thread (not any predecessors) it seems like there's room for interpretation.
Also, are there any actual "entirely new experiences" in film today, especially for aficionados?
Some of your examples of "new versions" are purely cosmetic and don't change the perception of the actual film, no argument here. Some versions do make it almost another movie.
To play devil's advocate from your last post--does that mean movies I have seen before (maybe 10, 20 years ago) shouldn't count? It has to be "entirely new" to really count, even though I might not remember it and though the movie might not have changed in the intervening years, *I* have?
Admittedly I'm new to these challenge threads, so please don't think I'm trying to rock the boat or change the world here, I enjoy intellectual disagreements and based solely on this thread (not any predecessors) it seems like there's room for interpretation.
For the record, Evil Dead 2 is a completely different film than Evil Dead 1. They couldn't get the rights to use clips, so they took the first 10 minutes and recapped the previous movie.
Last edited by caligulathegod; 07-02-08 at 10:07 PM.
07-02-08 | 09:08 PM
#72
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Originally Posted by Numes
I knew there were fan edits out there, but I had NO idea the lengths that were taken for these edits. Holy cow. Thoughts on this?
07-02-08 | 09:36 PM
#73
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally Posted by caligulathegod
I never said that. Who said you had to watch movies you never saw before?
I have this fan edit of the Spider-Man movies which runs almost 4 hours and combines all the movies, including the 2 cuts of part 2. It's not that bad.
List of changes (too many to realistically mention here)
*SPOILER ALERT*
If you want to be surprised by the way in which the new story unfolds, I recommend NOT reading the changes below because they will give away important plot points which have been slightly altered from the original DVD releases.
1 - Augmented original title sequence by adding “BIRTH OF A HERO” animation.
2 - Story-lines from movie 2 and 3 blended so to overlap where applicable. The origin is kept in tact, but the first movie is cut significantly where the story-line starts to focus too much on the Harry, MJ and Parker story arcs.
3 - Peter Parker cries a lot less.
4 - Mary Jane and Peter Parker’s story-line strengthened by removing redundant “get together/break up” scenes and “we can’t be together” scenes.
5 - Harry never experiences amnesia.
6 - Big props to ADigitalMan for his idea to treat Venom’s voice. I’ve also added a small effect to Venom’s voice, but it’s a touch subtler than ADM’s implementation.
7 - There’s no origin given for Green Goblin, instead it plays out as a slow reveal that Norman Osborne is the Goblin. The green mist is no longer a story element, though the green liquid is shown but once as Harry finds his father’s secret arsenal.
8 - Villain story-lines are intermingled - in fact, when Doc Oct robs the bank, Sandman robs the armored car about the same time. I had to do some creative splicing here to get this to work. If you look closely, you may be able to see where I rotoscoped out the pizza boxes in two Spidey swinging shots from SM2.
9 - For the Doc Oct action scenes, I opted for the SM2.1 extended fight sequences: they’re a bit more brutal than SM2 DVD’s version.
10 - No opening Voiceovers. Though, there is one Peter VO at the end.
11 - Parker no longer beats up Flash in high school. The main reason for me to remove this scene was because with Parker doing gravity defying flips in the air and knocking Flash twenty yards down the school hallway, it wouldn’t take much for one of the schoolmates to eventually figure him to be Spider-Man in the coming months. That scene never felt right to me.
12 - Removed Spider-Man losing his powers and the “Spider-Man No More” story-lines. I like them, and they work great in SM2, but they don’t fit in this retelling.
13 - Used SM2’s ending instead of SM3, because it was generally a better ending. And with how I tell the story of Parker and MJ, it really fits well with their budding love story.
14 - Macy Gray has been cut out of Unity Day as much as humanly possible.
15 - Goblin no longer wants to make a deal with Spider-Man.
16 - Most of the levity scenes have been taken out, which includes a lot of the J Jonah Jameson stuff in the Bugle.
17 - Timelines for MJ accepting John Jameson’s proposal have been shifted toward the end of the SM3 timeline, and it works well with the timing of Parker’s story to return the wedding ring to his Aunt May.
Intention for this fanedit:
Although I’m a huge fan of the Spider-Man trilogy, I wanted to do something in the vein of a Marvel-style action packed comic book using all of the preexisting action footage and minimizing the many story-lines from the films to very specific moments that only serve to move the plot forward. This is an action packed Spider-Man thrill ride meant for the true fanboys!
*SPOILER ALERT*
If you want to be surprised by the way in which the new story unfolds, I recommend NOT reading the changes below because they will give away important plot points which have been slightly altered from the original DVD releases.
1 - Augmented original title sequence by adding “BIRTH OF A HERO” animation.
2 - Story-lines from movie 2 and 3 blended so to overlap where applicable. The origin is kept in tact, but the first movie is cut significantly where the story-line starts to focus too much on the Harry, MJ and Parker story arcs.
3 - Peter Parker cries a lot less.
4 - Mary Jane and Peter Parker’s story-line strengthened by removing redundant “get together/break up” scenes and “we can’t be together” scenes.
5 - Harry never experiences amnesia.
6 - Big props to ADigitalMan for his idea to treat Venom’s voice. I’ve also added a small effect to Venom’s voice, but it’s a touch subtler than ADM’s implementation.
7 - There’s no origin given for Green Goblin, instead it plays out as a slow reveal that Norman Osborne is the Goblin. The green mist is no longer a story element, though the green liquid is shown but once as Harry finds his father’s secret arsenal.
8 - Villain story-lines are intermingled - in fact, when Doc Oct robs the bank, Sandman robs the armored car about the same time. I had to do some creative splicing here to get this to work. If you look closely, you may be able to see where I rotoscoped out the pizza boxes in two Spidey swinging shots from SM2.
9 - For the Doc Oct action scenes, I opted for the SM2.1 extended fight sequences: they’re a bit more brutal than SM2 DVD’s version.
10 - No opening Voiceovers. Though, there is one Peter VO at the end.
11 - Parker no longer beats up Flash in high school. The main reason for me to remove this scene was because with Parker doing gravity defying flips in the air and knocking Flash twenty yards down the school hallway, it wouldn’t take much for one of the schoolmates to eventually figure him to be Spider-Man in the coming months. That scene never felt right to me.
12 - Removed Spider-Man losing his powers and the “Spider-Man No More” story-lines. I like them, and they work great in SM2, but they don’t fit in this retelling.
13 - Used SM2’s ending instead of SM3, because it was generally a better ending. And with how I tell the story of Parker and MJ, it really fits well with their budding love story.
14 - Macy Gray has been cut out of Unity Day as much as humanly possible.
15 - Goblin no longer wants to make a deal with Spider-Man.
16 - Most of the levity scenes have been taken out, which includes a lot of the J Jonah Jameson stuff in the Bugle.
17 - Timelines for MJ accepting John Jameson’s proposal have been shifted toward the end of the SM3 timeline, and it works well with the timing of Parker’s story to return the wedding ring to his Aunt May.
Intention for this fanedit:
Although I’m a huge fan of the Spider-Man trilogy, I wanted to do something in the vein of a Marvel-style action packed comic book using all of the preexisting action footage and minimizing the many story-lines from the films to very specific moments that only serve to move the plot forward. This is an action packed Spider-Man thrill ride meant for the true fanboys!
07-02-08 | 10:06 PM
#74
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Originally Posted by Mister Peepers
I was joking.
I have this fan edit of the Spider-Man movies which runs almost 4 hours and combines all the movies, including the 2 cuts of part 2. It's not that bad.
I have this fan edit of the Spider-Man movies which runs almost 4 hours and combines all the movies, including the 2 cuts of part 2. It's not that bad.
