How The West Was Won Ultimate Collector's Edition - August 26th
09-02-08, 05:47 PM
#76
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09-03-08, 01:32 PM
#77
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I just got my copy!
On a hunch, I checked with Sunrise Records in Toronto. They had the 3-disc version sitting on a shelf for 8 days. The price was ridiculously low - though not as low as the $16.98 tag they had put on it by mistake.
The packaging is a rip-off. Granted, everybody wants the 3rd dic with the Cinerama Adventure documentary but that's no reason to load the damn thing with two totally useless and thick slices, one containing the booklets (which are cute but no more) and the other containing the photos and lobby cards (trash). I would probably feel differently if I had more shelf space.
The film itself is miraculous. Sound is 5.1 in both English and French. The "seamless" picture is amazing. The geometry of each of the three pictures has been slighly modified so that each picture flows neatly into the one next to it. Only a tiny ripple is visible at the worst of times and it is very easy to ignore it. It used to be that a horse moving from one screen to the other would be "folded" in two. Not any more. It's just amazing. Words fail me. Makes me wish for Blu-Ray to see it in SmileBox fashion. This is definite proof of intelligent life on Planet Earth.
It's exactly like the picture:
I haven't even looked at the 3rd disc yet but having this at home makes me forget that I'm staying away from work with excruciating lower back pain today. It's that good.
On a hunch, I checked with Sunrise Records in Toronto. They had the 3-disc version sitting on a shelf for 8 days. The price was ridiculously low - though not as low as the $16.98 tag they had put on it by mistake.
The packaging is a rip-off. Granted, everybody wants the 3rd dic with the Cinerama Adventure documentary but that's no reason to load the damn thing with two totally useless and thick slices, one containing the booklets (which are cute but no more) and the other containing the photos and lobby cards (trash). I would probably feel differently if I had more shelf space.
The film itself is miraculous. Sound is 5.1 in both English and French. The "seamless" picture is amazing. The geometry of each of the three pictures has been slighly modified so that each picture flows neatly into the one next to it. Only a tiny ripple is visible at the worst of times and it is very easy to ignore it. It used to be that a horse moving from one screen to the other would be "folded" in two. Not any more. It's just amazing. Words fail me. Makes me wish for Blu-Ray to see it in SmileBox fashion. This is definite proof of intelligent life on Planet Earth.
It's exactly like the picture:
I haven't even looked at the 3rd disc yet but having this at home makes me forget that I'm staying away from work with excruciating lower back pain today. It's that good.
Last edited by baracine; 09-03-08 at 01:37 PM.
09-03-08, 03:00 PM
#78
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The most amazing part of the Cinerama Adventure documentary is the SmileBox visuals. They are chosen from the most thrilling scenes ever designed for Cinerama.
Another interesting part is how Cinerama came from Vitarama, which was a process designed to train WWII airplane gun operators in simulated fight sequences involving widescreen visuals and a very complicated electronic setup, which is really the origin ot today's interactive video games.
Another interesting part is how Cinerama came from Vitarama, which was a process designed to train WWII airplane gun operators in simulated fight sequences involving widescreen visuals and a very complicated electronic setup, which is really the origin ot today's interactive video games.
09-03-08, 07:43 PM
#79
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The French track, the multiple formal commentary and the 5.1 sound are all incredible.
This is an excerpt of the HTF review by Ken McAlinden (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...edition.html):
The final picture looks a lot like very wide CinemaScope with a slightly exaggerated fish-eye lens, which the SmileBox process would correct or alleviate in most instances.
This is an excerpt of the HTF review by Ken McAlinden (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...edition.html):
The Video
The film is presented in a 16:9 enhanced transfer letterboxed to an ultra-wide 2.89:1 aspect ratio. The technical folks at Warner Bros. Home Video have more than gone the extra mile with this release, employing digital wizardry to erase and/or soften the join lines between the three separate frames that constitute the Cinerama image for a near seamless result. Just as importantly, they started from early generation film elements, carefully touched them up in the digital domain for a clean, balanced, yet still film-like image with excellent color and contrast, and presented the film on two discs at an extremely high average bitrate, eking out just about all of the detail possible from standard definition video. I would almost go so far to say that with a decent upscaling DVD player, you could likely convince many viewers that they are watching a 720p high definition presentation during many sequences. There are some source related variations in density that pop up from time to time, naturally limited to one of the three "panels" of the image. There are a few instances where a bit of video flickering occurs due to some fine detail beyond the transfer's ability to resolve. This is always due to closely grouped vertical or horizontal lines. Since the essence of the film is wide angle deep focus spectacle, and detail is important to conveying that, I would rather have these infrequent (I noticed only about 3 instances) small anomalies in the image than see them artificially soften the frame to remove them.
Comparisons with the video quality of previous DVD and laserdisc presentations of this film are not even worth making, as they were all derived from optically reduced and cropped 35mm elements that were reflective of the film's release in non-Cinerama engagements and were presented in 4:3 letterboxed video. They are inferior in every way to what is presented here.
The Audio
The audio comes courtesy of a Dolby Digital 5.1 track encoded at a 384 kbps bitrate. The film was originally presented with multi-track stereo sound, and while this appears to be a remix rather than just a straight repurposing, I suspect it is not a radical departure from the original, which I have never heard. The score and sound effects are spread widely across the front channels. There is directional dialog, but it is not spread as wide across the front as the sound effects. The rear channels are used frequently for score elements and when appropriate for sound effects. There are occasional discrete stereo effects in the rear channel such as the sound of an off-screen train whistle during the films concluding segment. Fidelity is outstanding, particularly for the rousing Alfred Newman score. I did hear the sound of either noise gating or faders lifting on the dialog track from time to time, but this was at worst a minor distraction. An alternate French language dub track is also included in 384kbps Dolby Digital 5.1. It is always entertaining to hear what John Wayne sounds like in French.
The film is presented in a 16:9 enhanced transfer letterboxed to an ultra-wide 2.89:1 aspect ratio. The technical folks at Warner Bros. Home Video have more than gone the extra mile with this release, employing digital wizardry to erase and/or soften the join lines between the three separate frames that constitute the Cinerama image for a near seamless result. Just as importantly, they started from early generation film elements, carefully touched them up in the digital domain for a clean, balanced, yet still film-like image with excellent color and contrast, and presented the film on two discs at an extremely high average bitrate, eking out just about all of the detail possible from standard definition video. I would almost go so far to say that with a decent upscaling DVD player, you could likely convince many viewers that they are watching a 720p high definition presentation during many sequences. There are some source related variations in density that pop up from time to time, naturally limited to one of the three "panels" of the image. There are a few instances where a bit of video flickering occurs due to some fine detail beyond the transfer's ability to resolve. This is always due to closely grouped vertical or horizontal lines. Since the essence of the film is wide angle deep focus spectacle, and detail is important to conveying that, I would rather have these infrequent (I noticed only about 3 instances) small anomalies in the image than see them artificially soften the frame to remove them.
Comparisons with the video quality of previous DVD and laserdisc presentations of this film are not even worth making, as they were all derived from optically reduced and cropped 35mm elements that were reflective of the film's release in non-Cinerama engagements and were presented in 4:3 letterboxed video. They are inferior in every way to what is presented here.
The Audio
The audio comes courtesy of a Dolby Digital 5.1 track encoded at a 384 kbps bitrate. The film was originally presented with multi-track stereo sound, and while this appears to be a remix rather than just a straight repurposing, I suspect it is not a radical departure from the original, which I have never heard. The score and sound effects are spread widely across the front channels. There is directional dialog, but it is not spread as wide across the front as the sound effects. The rear channels are used frequently for score elements and when appropriate for sound effects. There are occasional discrete stereo effects in the rear channel such as the sound of an off-screen train whistle during the films concluding segment. Fidelity is outstanding, particularly for the rousing Alfred Newman score. I did hear the sound of either noise gating or faders lifting on the dialog track from time to time, but this was at worst a minor distraction. An alternate French language dub track is also included in 384kbps Dolby Digital 5.1. It is always entertaining to hear what John Wayne sounds like in French.
Last edited by baracine; 09-03-08 at 07:51 PM.
09-04-08, 06:56 AM
#80
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If there is one overwhelming message contained in the commentary, it's that HTWWW is very much Debbie Reynolds' movie. Not only does she have more screen time than all the other luminaries in it, from the first to the last scene, but she is also the one who gave it her all every single day from acting, singing, dancing to acrobatics and even stunts and frequent flashes of insight and humour.
Hollywood's last true movie star?
Hollywood's last true movie star?
Last edited by baracine; 09-04-08 at 08:37 AM.
09-04-08, 08:43 AM
#81
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I only saw one scene where the limitations of the Cinerama process are evident and that is the rapid right-to-left panoramic scan of the Pony Express rider changing horses in front of two wooden fort towers. The towers are seen to noticeably change shape and flicker as they cross from one panel to he other. This lasts only five seconds and it is a helpful reminder of the tremendous work that was done on the rest of the film for those cross-panel passages to be literally invisible most of the time.
09-04-08, 09:05 AM
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The packaging is a rip-off. Granted, everybody wants the 3rd dic with the Cinerama Adventure documentary but that's no reason to load the damn thing with two totally useless and thick slices, one containing the booklets (which are cute but no more) and the other containing the photos and lobby cards (trash). I would probably feel differently if I had more shelf space.
09-04-08, 09:09 AM
#83
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Actually, I'm right about this. Amazon confirms that the 3rd disc is only available in the 3-disc Ultimate Collector's Edition. The other variant is a 2-disc edition (without the documentary):
http://www.amazon.com/How-West-Was-T...0537419&sr=1-3
Last edited by baracine; 09-04-08 at 09:12 AM.
09-04-08, 09:14 AM
#84
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The HTF site has a comparison of screen caps from the SD and the same scenes in SmileBox in the documentary. Some information appears to be missing on the sides (and top and bottom of the center panel) in SmileBox:
Last edited by baracine; 09-04-08 at 09:19 AM.
09-04-08, 09:18 AM
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Actually, I'm right about this. Amazon confirms that the 3rd disc is only available in the 3-disc Ultimate Collector's Edition. The other variant is a 2-disc edition (without the documentary):
http://www.amazon.com/How-West-Was-T...0537419&sr=1-3
http://www.amazon.com/How-West-Was-T...0537419&sr=1-3
09-04-08, 09:26 AM
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09-04-08, 09:29 AM
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09-04-08, 09:41 AM
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Last edited by baracine; 09-04-08 at 09:43 AM.
09-04-08, 09:48 AM
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It all depends on your definition of "this". There is no way of knowing whether that poster was referring to the Ultimate Collector's Edition or not. As far as I know, he was talking about the Ultimate Collector's Edition. The question is "Where did you get your 3-disc Special Edition without the physical extras?" since nobody here except myself and another poster (Doctor Gonzo) seem to have the DVD yet and we both have the Ultimate Collector's Edition. I know it is listed here: http://www.dvdempire.com/Exec/v4_ite...earchID=126597
I get most releases a little early, sometimes a week, sometimes two... just take a look at some of my posts in the "What's the latest DVD you bought"-thread.
09-04-08, 10:06 AM
#90
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Yes there is, you could just look up the UPC code (012569799714) that is clearly stated on the back cover you just quoted.
I get most releases a little early, sometimes a week, sometimes two... just take a look at some of my posts in the "What's the latest DVD you bought"-thread.
I get most releases a little early, sometimes a week, sometimes two... just take a look at some of my posts in the "What's the latest DVD you bought"-thread.
It seems there were many marketing problems with this release. One of them is that, for instance, Amazon and DVD Empire list different products. Amazon lists a 2-disc SE and a 3-disc UCE while DVD Empire lists a 3-disc SE and 3-disc UCE.
Another one is that my Canadian version of the Ultimate Collector's Edition is called "Ultimate Collector's Edition" on the front and has a (bilingual) sticker at the back calling it "3-Disc Special Edition DVD" and listing all the paper extras in its contents.
09-04-08, 10:08 AM
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The UPC has been available since the release was announced.
09-04-08, 10:31 AM
#92
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Uhm, it was directed at you. The back cover was posted 2 months ago, with the UPC code plainly visible. You said you were victim of false marketing, yet there was two months where you could have looked up that UPC code and seen that it was the ordinary edition.
The UPC has been available since the release was announced.
The UPC has been available since the release was announced.
Second, assuming anyone is anal-retentive enough to check on UPC codes in a glorious bout of investigative journalism in order to contradict WB's official announcement, this is not valid information in Canada where the UPC codes for similar products are different from the US counterparts.
Furthermore, a Google search for "UPC Code 012569799714", even today, yields ads for both the 2-disc SE and the 3-disc SE.
Last edited by baracine; 09-04-08 at 10:35 AM.
09-04-08, 10:33 AM
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I suppose this release wasn't too important for you then, to take the time to type "012569799714" on google..
Isn't that the point right there? You said you weren't sure what edition the poster of that back scan (can I point out that it was 2 months ago even one more time? 
) was from, yet you could take 10 seconds to type that UPC into google to see what edition that was the back scan of? From those 10 seconds of streneous work, you could conclude that indeed it would be a 3-disc set and not 2.
The Ultimate Edition has a completely different UPC. Sorry.
) was from, yet you could take 10 seconds to type that UPC into google to see what edition that was the back scan of? From those 10 seconds of streneous work, you could conclude that indeed it would be a 3-disc set and not 2.The Ultimate Edition has a completely different UPC. Sorry.
Last edited by crs; 09-04-08 at 10:39 AM.
09-04-08, 10:39 AM
#94
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It was very important for me. But even if I had googled "UPC Code 012569799714" two months ago I would have only found ads for the 2-disc SE. It is presently listed as such in the IMDb. See: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056085/dvd
Furthermore, I had no reason to believe WB would be lying about its product.
And, thirdly, as I've explained before, UPC codes are different in Canada for similar products.
09-04-08, 10:41 AM
#95
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Isn't that the point right there? You said you weren't sure what edition the poster of that back scan (can I point out that it was 2 months ago even one more time? ) was from, yet you could take 10 seconds to type that UPC into google to see what edition that was the back scan of? From those 10 seconds of streneous work, you could conclude that indeed it would be a 3-disc set and not 2.
The Ultimate Edition has a completely different UPC. Sorry.
) was from, yet you could take 10 seconds to type that UPC into google to see what edition that was the back scan of? From those 10 seconds of streneous work, you could conclude that indeed it would be a 3-disc set and not 2.The Ultimate Edition has a completely different UPC. Sorry.
09-04-08, 10:45 AM
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Well, speaking for myself, from that 2 month old post and that UPC code, I interpreted it exactly as I've tried argumenting, and held out for the ordinary edition. Lo and behold, the back scan was correct. What more can I say? 
Look, the guy said "looks like WB ended up making this a 3-disc set for some reason", when it was already announced long ago that there was a 3-disc edition coming. How else could you interpret it than that there would be ANOTHER 3-disc edition? Atleast enough to want to satisfy your curiousity by googling the UPC? Well, I have a hard time trying not to snicker, but I'm close to.
Look, the guy said "looks like WB ended up making this a 3-disc set for some reason", when it was already announced long ago that there was a 3-disc edition coming. How else could you interpret it than that there would be ANOTHER 3-disc edition? Atleast enough to want to satisfy your curiousity by googling the UPC? Well, I have a hard time trying not to snicker, but I'm close to.
Last edited by crs; 09-04-08 at 10:53 AM.
09-04-08, 10:49 AM
#97
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A Google search for "How the West Was Won" "2-disc Special Edition" still yields 5,600 results to the 935 results for "How the West Was Won" "3-disc Special Edition".
09-04-08, 10:55 AM
#99
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I blame the original poster of that DVD back cover for his inability to communicate important information in a clear manner. I blame you for only joining the discussion to gloat that "you knew it all along". Very helpful!!!
Anyway, it's not like I had any choice in the matter. When I saw the UCE in that store in Toronto (it was the only version available), I just had to have it!