DVD Talk Talk about DVDs and Movies on DVD including Covers and Cases

FANTASIA Re-release??

Old 03-21-08, 10:13 AM
  #1  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 143
FANTASIA Re-release??

Has there been any word of a new version of both Disney films on the horizon or should I just take the plunge on the OOP boxset?
chris_santucci is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 10:41 AM
  #2  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,491
I'm guessing that it will hit DVD and Blu-ray in 2009 or 2010. That would put it in line for coming back out of the vault, if the 10-year "rule" is still in effect.
dvd182 is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 11:36 AM
  #3  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 143
Ah. I keep forgetting the ten-year "rule." I hope this means it will apply to Pinnochio as well. I am hoping it will include the usual restoration, but my real concern is that the extras on the box won't be included.
chris_santucci is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 12:10 PM
  #4  
DVD Talk Legend
 
bluetoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,492
Pinocchio is being released next spring.
bluetoast is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 12:19 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
The Monkees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,983
It would make sense to release it in 2010 for a 70th anniversary as a Platinum Edition.
The Monkees is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 12:58 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Hero
 
slop101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 39,897
If the old box-set isn't too much coin, I'd say go for that, as I don't see how they could improve on it - it's looks/sounds great and it's a pretty comprehensive set.
slop101 is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 02:03 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 2,056
Originally Posted by slop101
If the old box-set isn't too much coin, I'd say go for that, as I don't see how they could improve on it - it's looks/sounds great and it's a pretty comprehensive set.
For those who are looking, a quick check of a couple of sites suggests it's not too bad for a used copy. Factory sealed ones seem to be pretty pricey though (over $100.00).

I agree that it is a great set, and remains among my most prized DVDs. Took me a long time to go through all of the extras on it.
Superdaddy is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 02:51 PM
  #8  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 143
I did check amazon and ebay for the used ones. Did anyone see an ideal place to find cheap boxsets?
chris_santucci is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 05:20 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 955
i believe fantasia has been added to disney's platinum line. spring 2009 is pinocchio, fall 2009 should be some princess-related movie (most likely snow white since they supposedly changed the 10-year rule to a 7-year rule to accomodate 2-per-year platinum release for their 14 top titles) so perhaps fantasia may release spring 2010.

i've been looking for that box set myself, but haven't found it used at any local TWEC stores (only place i know of that sells used) and $100 on amazon is too steep for me. but i think the box set will probably be a good choice to get seeing as most of disney's new releases tends to focus on kid-aimed interactive games and stuff. all the substantial bonus features on the original release probably won't be carried over to the new one.
shyguy1083 is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 06:15 PM
  #10  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 143
Originally Posted by shyguy1083
i believe fantasia has been added to disney's platinum line. spring 2009 is pinocchio, fall 2009 should be some princess-related movie (most likely snow white since they supposedly changed the 10-year rule to a 7-year rule to accomodate 2-per-year platinum release for their 14 top titles) so perhaps fantasia may release spring 2010.

i've been looking for that box set myself, but haven't found it used at any local TWEC stores (only place i know of that sells used) and $100 on amazon is too steep for me. but i think the box set will probably be a good choice to get seeing as most of disney's new releases tends to focus on kid-aimed interactive games and stuff. all the substantial bonus features on the original release probably won't be carried over to the new one.
Yes, it does seem that somewhere after Snow White, the Platinum Editions have begun to cater to the kiddies instead of the hardcore collectors. I could only hope that "Fantasia" would be considered more adult-oriented given its artistic merit and that would simply port over the extras from the prior boxset
chris_santucci is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 06:35 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
PatrickMcCart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 1,030
FYI, the 2000 DVD has about 30 seconds of footage digitally altered (either sections of the image erased or heavily zoomed in), plus Deems Taylor's voice is completely replaced with a re-dub (which isn't that accurate to his real voice). Other than that, it's a spectacular DVD for the most part. The Dances of the Hours needs more work as there's a lot of color fringing at splices in the first segment (the Ostriches). The Ave Maria segment has a lot of dirt and scratches, too. But it's otherwise perfect in all the other sections.

For BluRay, hopefully they would allow for the option to hear Deems Taylor's original voice and the unaltered 30 seconds of the Pastoral segment. I've heard that only the 4-channel mixdown (from the 1950s 4-track mag) of the Fantasound mix exists, but if they found the original recordings, it would allow for a PCM 7.0 mix. If any of Disney's features would be demo material for BluRay, it would be this film.
PatrickMcCart is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 09:24 PM
  #12  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 2,056
Originally Posted by PatrickMcCart
FYI, the 2000 DVD has about 30 seconds of footage digitally altered (either sections of the image erased or heavily zoomed in), plus Deems Taylor's voice is completely replaced with a re-dub (which isn't that accurate to his real voice).
Yup, these are about my only gripes with the boxed set. I actually have hung onto my old VHS copy just because it has the original Taylor narration.

I can still remember when that tape was released. I was in the music/video department of a store and literally watched the display holding the Fantasia cassettes empty out as fast as they could fill it up. Literally watched the employees bring more out, drop them into the display, and then have people walk up and grab them. Crazy.
Superdaddy is offline  
Old 03-21-08, 10:02 PM
  #13  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Unique New York
Posts: 4,239
Wasn't there an issue with Taylor's dialogue that Disney didn't use it on the DVD release of Fantasia? Something to do with the cut of the film they were releasing and some audio was missing?
JoeyOhhhh is online now  
Old 03-22-08, 06:28 AM
  #14  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Nick Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 22,360
I can't imagine Disney releasing the original footage of the Pastoral segment before they release Song of the South. A lot of people who have no axe to grind will think that picaninny character is offensive.

Nick Danger is offline  
Old 03-22-08, 08:18 AM
  #15  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
dhmac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Kissimmee, Florida
Posts: 7,021
Originally Posted by JoeyOhhhh
Wasn't there an issue with Taylor's dialogue that Disney didn't use it on the DVD release of Fantasia? Something to do with the cut of the film they were releasing and some audio was missing?
I think the explanation was that the film had been cut so much over the years, that when they went to restore it back to its original length, some of the audio tracks for Deems Taylor's restored footage were completely missing. So it was either omit that footage or re-dub with another voice.
dhmac is offline  
Old 03-22-08, 08:30 AM
  #16  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
dhmac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Kissimmee, Florida
Posts: 7,021
Originally Posted by Nick Danger
I can't imagine Disney releasing the original footage of the Pastoral segment before they release Song of the South. A lot of people who have no axe to grind will think that picaninny character is offensive.
I would have rather they re-painted the character (apparently named "Sunflower" according to this link) to some other color and left the shot otherwise intact instead of doing that sloppy zoom-in to cut her out (a zoom which stretches the resolution of the original image and so it's very grainy).
dhmac is offline  
Old 03-22-08, 10:24 AM
  #17  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 2,056
Originally Posted by dhmac
I think the explanation was that the film had been cut so much over the years, that when they went to restore it back to its original length, some of the audio tracks for Deems Taylor's restored footage were completely missing. So it was either omit that footage or re-dub with another voice.
That's basically it. The version on the DVD is an attempted restoration of the original roadshow version of the film, which apparently hadn't been readily available since it originally opened in theatres in 1940.

I had seen the film theatrically a number of times over the years, in various re-releases, and the more extensive narration (by Taylor originally, and redubbed for the DVD) was new to me when I watched the disc, and probably to most people who had seen the film in theatres. Over the years, they shortened Taylor's comments and doctored up the scene previously described as offensive by zooming it, as previously described.

I haven't looked at the bonus disc from the boxed set for a while, but I believe there is a text feature on there somewhere where they describe the various edits that were made to the film over the years.
Superdaddy is offline  
Old 03-22-08, 10:00 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Simi Valley, CA
Posts: 570
Yes, I would search out a set and certainly NOT wait. One of Disney's best releases.
Carcosa is offline  
Old 03-22-08, 11:02 PM
  #19  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Drexl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 15,998
I don't think we'll get that original footage in the Pastoral sequence back. It was changed in the 60's and has been that way ever since. I hope they do put back the original voice, hopefully with branching to provide both versions. The reason they changed the voice is to accommodate the extra footage in the roadshow version. They didn't have the audio in spots, so they had a voice actor dub all of the dialogue.

I think Fantasia could be released next (after Pinocchio), since it would be next in line in the Platinum series. It's the only one that was released on DVD before they started doing extensive restorations with Lowry Digital, so it could look better. However, since it's not one of their most popular titles, they may put out something bigger like Snow White first and save Fantasia for the spring.

I also hope they'll include all the extras from the first set. I think they'll give both the original and Fantasia 2000 2-disc sets. They should be able to include everything and have room for new stuff for the kids, since there's just about half a disc to port over for each film.

BTW, I've never heard anything about the fall releases having to be princess-related. The Lion King and The Jungle Book were released in the fall, and I don't see any princesses in those.
Drexl is offline  
Old 03-23-08, 01:18 AM
  #20  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
PatrickMcCart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 1,030
Originally Posted by Nick Danger
I can't imagine Disney releasing the original footage of the Pastoral segment before they release Song of the South.
I can't imagine wanting to pay for another release of Fantasia that's called uncut, yet is not. Putting "The Uncut, Original Version" in big letters on the front, then totally re-dubbing the narration and altering 30 seconds of visuals is not only a fallacy, but an outright lie from Disney. That's like WB keeping their "Uncut and uncensored" label on their Looney Tunes sets, then cutting out all the blackface gags.

Disney has already shown they can handle very un-PC material like the cartoons on the second B&W Mickey and Silly Symphonies sets, as well as the material on the WWII collection. All they have to do is put a warning and a Maltin intro.

For the BluRay, they can at least create a better altered version by digitally re-animating Sunflower to not look offensive. [i]Anything[/] would look better than the cropping and the grainy zooms.

Like Maltin says in the intros for Disney's un-PC cartoons on DVD, editing or keeping unreleased is basically like saying the material never existed in the first place. Stalin would go back and remove his enemies from photographs by hiring someone to airbrush them out, Disney is fiddling with a silly stereotype from 68 years ago and pretending like nothing happened. They got away with it in theaters, DVD, and VHS, but it's going to be pretty damn obvious when there's grapefruit sized grain on a 1080p screen.

Provide both cuts, make the altered version re-animated instead of cropped, and let people pick between a totally re-dubbed Deems Taylor or a pieced-together track. Everyone wins that way. Hell, they don't want to do any of this after all, they can at least be honest and mention the re-dub and edits in a disclaimer.

Originally Posted by dhmac
I think the explanation was that the film had been cut so much over the years, that when they went to restore it back to its original length, some of the audio tracks for Deems Taylor's restored footage were completely missing. So it was either omit that footage or re-dub with another voice.
I think roughly 60% remains intact. Other films required re-dubs like Lawrence of Arabia (Charles Gray standing in for the late Jack Hawkins - under the direction of David Lean and Robert Harris) and Bedknobs and Broomsticks (Corey Burton apparently had to re-dub some missing lines for David Thomlinson). Funny how neither threw out the majority of the existing audio just so it would fit with the minority.

The smart thing to do is to simply to cut into the re-dub only when needed and try to digitally process the new audio to fit in better. Corey Burton's Deems Taylor voice is not that good, but it would have been helped just with his pitch lowered digitally by a notch or two.
PatrickMcCart is offline  
Old 03-23-08, 11:08 AM
  #21  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Nick Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 22,360
I would rather see the unzoomed footage. But I don't think the current management at Disney is willing to release it. I prefer the Warner approach of admitting that blackface and jap-baiting existed in some excellent cartoons. I hope that Warner releases Coal Black. I have no hopes of seeing Sunflower.

A few years ago I was tutoring a black woman in college algebra. When I told her about the cut, she thought it was pretty silly. But when I showed it to her, she got quiet for a while. Then she said that she wouldn't want her daughters to see it, because she didn't want to put that image in their heads.
Nick Danger is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.