I’ve had a Toshiba HD-A1 since July of last year and I have been quite pleased with the unit. (...using it with a Mitsubishi 65” RP HDTV.) I currently own about 20 HD-DVD titles.

I will probably buy a Blu-ray player eventually (or even a dual format player) when and if the price is right, but I am currently in no hurry to get one.

Count me in as one of those individuals that think it to be quite likely that both formats will end up co-existing. Indeed, I find it ironic that the folks that are holding out for a “winner” are partly the reason that neither format has enough momentum to “win” the war.

Of course two competing formats in an industry is not news. What is news, is the two formats rapidly becoming affordable to the consumer in a smaller time frame. Compare this format war with VHS and BETA. Could you afford both within a year or two? Hell no. I still remember my father coming home with a $4,000 VHS system where each comprised of components that were as large as my A/V receiver. The pricepoints are much more affordable these days. And when these competing formats become so affordable, you have to ask yourself are the movies which come on a competing format worth it. I think so.

A typical mid-range HD DVD player is around $300 (BR is much higher--go figure but will be more affordable later on which is why I'm only with one format right now). That's only 15 HD-DVDs. And if you have any type of collection, this amount doesn't even make a dent.

Maybe I'm coming from a videophile perspective versus a typical consumer who wants it all delivered on a plate without any oversight because I once owned several hundred Laserdics in addition to my collection of DVDs, and VHS tapes. I didn't care about a format per se. If a particular movie came out on a particular format, I was ready for just about anything. What I liked, was options.

Personally, I don't want only one format to win because that means prices will be monopolized. And this is what Sony wants. They've always wanted extreme control and they do this by creating proprietary components in an industry that seeks standardization. Sony doesn't like to create components which can be cross-compatible. Luckily, most of their proprietary creations have historically backfired on them. Including their memory sticks (which has an interesting history).

I have several objections to hi-def as currently available:

1) Many titles have been released in MPEG-2 rather than VC-1 or H.264, and even fewer use the new hi-def lossless audio codecs. Even if they did, players don't support them. Few (none?) of the discs use advanced features beyond what's available in regular DVDs. Basically, hi-def is woefully premature and should never have been released without full support *and use* of its features.

2) Many titles are rehashed SD. The extras aren't anamorphic, for example, just like the SD release. Nothing says "cheap and greedy" like failing to do simple upgrades like these.

3) Stop trying to lock everything down. It's impossible and pisses off consumers. Take a page from the software industry who gave up on the idea decades ago. Besides, the pirates (by and large) aren't selling decrypted video they're selling bit-for-bit copies, which encryption is powerless to prevent.

4) HD demands digital or physical restoration of the prints, but most discs are re-encoded from the original transfers done for SD. HD makes the flaws stand out even more prominently.

5) Format war. Enough said.

Personally, I'm holding off on both formats. It's really got nothing to do with the format war but rather convenience. At this point, DVD players are ubiquitous. Hell, we even have one in the mini-van. There is no way I'm about to get into the wayback machine and return to the bad old days of only being able to watch a disk in the one special location capable of playing it. And I'm sure as hell not going to be buying 3 or 4 HD players, including the non-existent portable unit for travel. :rolleyes:

Any more, my family's viewing habits are such that any move to HD would still require parallel buys in SD. I suppose I can always root for Warner's multi-format disks to take off, but most people seem to abhor them.

You make some great points. A person should be selective if they are embracing HD movies at this point and want to "see a difference" in their movies.

While the use of MPEG2 was a huge problem when Blu-ray premiered, that was primarily related to the fact that the format was limited to single-layer 25gb discs at that time, which simply didn't have enough space for it. These days, the prevalence of dual-layer 50gb discs gives even MPEG2 plenty of room to breathe. The advantages of VC-1 and AVC are all about efficiency. They can maintain the same quality in less space. But given enough space, any of the 3 codecs can deliver excellent results.

Also, AVC and VC-1 are being used more often on Blu-ray now, and VC-1 has always been the primary standard for HD DVD.

All HD DVD players can decode Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD. The PS3 and selected other Blu-ray players (though admittedly not all) can decode those codecs as well.

A fair number of HD DVDs have In-Movie Experience or U-Control interactive features, and Blu-ray has started getting into the game as well with new titles like the Pirates of the Caribbean discs.

But that actually goes to the question of whether these new interactive features are truly needed. Most of them are gimmicks. It's not like DVD buyers had been crying out for them.

You assume it's a "simple upgrade" to take an existing bonus feature and make it HD. In fact, most of the featurettes and other supplements on DVDs were shot in Standard Definition video and simply don't exist in HD form. The studio would have to actually make all new documentaries and featurettes from scratch. Again, how many people are actually calling out for that to justify the expense?

So the question becomes, does the studio include all the DVD supplements even though they're Standard Definition (most HD DVD studios say yes), or do they drop anything not HD and leave their discs almost feature-less (a lot of Blu-ray studios take that approach)?

Says the guy who's stated numerous times that he wouldn't buy anything High Definition even if there were only one format.

If you're not interested in HD, that's your prerogative. But why do you keep participating in threads about it? Do you just enjoy pissing on other people's parades?

I have a watched a few of the In-Movie Experiences on HD-DVD, and quite frankly, I don’t understand why this is really any kind of “significant” achievement.

I mean, I have seen essentially the same thing accomplished on standard DVD with the Goonies commentary.

I disagree. While they may never really make it much beyond niche market status (much like SACD and DVD-Audio), I think they will still manage to survive since they provide consumers interested with an option to own movies in HD. Consider that DVD-R and DVD+R have also managed to co-exist.

owned the A1 since August and I LOVE IT. own about 30 HD-DVDs. I pretty much stopped buying movies only if its a special edition or one that wont be on HD soon.

King Kong, Underworld Evolution on HD-DVD on my 92" screen make me happy I got into HD.

They look amazing.

I've sat out the HD war thus far and will until one format is standard. And I really, really hope that format is HD-DVD, I do not want Sony in charge of any format. No consumer should.

The DeepDiscount thread is making me start to creep off the fence, I've seen some decent deals on BD and HD-DVD. I'm a casual gamer (mainly EA sports titles and the Halo series) so one price drop on PS3 and Sony can consider me a BD supporter. The format war is really cheating the consumer, but I have a 1080p HDTV, I should be taking advantage of it. If theres a good deal on a 1080p HD player come Black Friday, I'll bite.

Still waiting. Don't want two players. Too expensive - both player & dvd's.

Like others have said, I may take the jump at Christmas depending on what kind of deals are going. Right now I'm leaning Bluray. I'm not too interested in "replacing" older titles, maybe a few, but mostly I'd be buying new release films. Sony has the advantage with studio support. I also lean towards BD because there is more than one company making the players - isn't Toshiba the only producer of HD players - that's a little worrisome also.

Sales on the other hand have not!

http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/new...archived=False

By Mayumi Negishi

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan's Toshiba Corp. has slashed its sales target for high definition DVD players and recorders after disappointing sales in the U.S., putting a damper on prospects for one of its growth businesses.

"Sales in the U.S. have been slower than expected, and we are going to have to lower our U.S. sales forecast," said Yoshihide Fujii, head of Toshiba's digital consumer business.

The electronics group now expects to sell 1 million next-generation optical disc players in North America by the end of calendar 2007, down 44 percent from its previous estimate of 1.8 million unit sales, a Toshiba executive said on Tuesday.

"Obviously, we are going to have to lower our previous global estimate (too)," said Fujii, but declined to give a new forecast.

Toshiba's HD DVD technology competes with Blu-ray, promoted by Sony Corp. and Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. in a high-stakes DVD format war that has split the electronics industry and made consumers hesitant about buying DVD players.

Fujii had previously said he expected Toshiba to sell 3 million HD DVD players and recorders worldwide by the end of the business year to March 2008, led by U.S. consumers' appetite for movies at home.

Sony equips its PlayStation 3 game consoles with Blu-ray drives, and Toshiba said last week it aimed to put disk drives for high-definition DVDs on all its laptop computers next year, but neither side has been able to land a knock-out blow yet.

"Consumers who are buying Playstation 3 are buying it as a game console. They're simply not buying it for watching as many high-definition movies as Sony said they would," said Ken Graffeo, executive vice president of Universal Studios Home Entertainment. He spoke at a news conference announcing the release of Toshiba's Vardia-brand HD DVD players in Japan.

Over 60 percent of all next-generation DVD players sold in North America were for the HD DVD format as of the end of May, not including game consoles, Fujii said.

The battle over next generation DVDs is reminiscent of the format war between VHS and Betamax. Both sides are trying to gain an edge as demand grows on falling prices of high-definition televisions and DVD players.

Ahead of Fujii's comments, shares in Toshiba closed up 0.5 percent at 948 yen, outperforming the Tokyo stock market's electrical machinery index which slid 0.26 percent.


AND....

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7399

As seen with sales of Blu-ray movies in North America, the Sony PlayStation 3 is one of the best Blu-ray Disc players currently on the market. In Western Europe, the PlayStation 3 launched on March 23 and according to data from the Blu-ray Disc Association, HD DVD comfortably outsold Blu-ray up until that point. In the week immediately after the console’s European launch, Blu-ray discs accounted for almost 87% of all HD disc sales. Recent weekly figures from Europe put Blu-ray sales three times greater than that of HD DVD, with the now-leading format accounting for 64% of the total volume in 2007. The quick turn of the tide, however, reflects how easily it is to sway favor in a still relatively small niche.

I've had the xbox add-on for a while, but just upgraded to the A2... i'll jump on Blu-Ray as well as soon as the s300 drops to below $300, which should be around the holidays at the rate things are going now.

pro-bassoonist, I think the most important line in your articles is:

"The quick turn of the tide, however, reflects how easily it is to sway favor in a still relatively small niche."

Yeah, we won't have a "winner" until HD sales are 10% of overall sales. Right now they're still under 5%, I believe.

It looks fantastic over component if you have your TV properly calibrated.

I got a Toshiba HD-A1 last year, so I'm HD DVD. I want to get a BD player, and will get one as soon as I can find a good one for ~$300.

DKNY75: HD does not have much room to explore! Aside from stand alone players, which Toshiba as seen above undersells, the format has a very difficult time in Europe. It is also a fact that because of HD's code-cracking summer releases have slowed down.

On the BR front, at least in my eyes, matters look a tiny bit different!

I honestly think that come this Christmas there will definitely be a leader in this fiasco. I would not come forth and state that there will be a winner but with an approximate sale price of about 300$ for Blue-Ray and around 180-230$ for HD (these are not too far off) I think that the market will have a much different look.

Pro-B

Does it upconvert regular DVDs over component? If not, maybe that's his hesitation.

No, but as far as I know, nothing readily available in the U.S. does. Upconverting DVDs over component is strictly verboten by the DVD Forum.

Yup. Kinda dumb. You can display 1080i over component from HD-DVDs but not upconverted DVD.

There's a few hackable players like the Oppos. I had a Faroudja-equipped Zenith DVB-318 that shipped upconverting over component - firmware updates got rid of it, but you can flash the old firmware on 'em. A few others.

Then that is indeed a good reason to hold off for people with large DVD libraries and no HDMI inputs currently.

There are some players you can hack (i.e. burn a cd and play it, some are just punching codes in on remote etc.) to upcovert over component, but these are just DVD players, I've not read of it with Bluray or HD-DVD players.

Is it? People with component-only televisions almost certainly aren't upconverting now anyway, unless they're letting their displays upscale, so the quality wouldn't be any worse than what they're already getting.

I mean, I can come up with a lot of reasons not to buy into these formats right now, but not being able to take advantage of something you already can't take advantage of seems kinda low on the list.

Depends. They may well prefer to drop $100-150 on a hackable player than can upconvert, vs $200-$500 for a HD-DVD or Blu Ray player. Point being they can take advantage of up conversion with a hack for much cheaper than buying a new TV with HDMI and a HD or Blu Ray player.

But I admit I'm biased I see no reason in owning either HD format now as the library is too thin, the discs are too expensive, and it would suck to buy into one and have it go away in a couple years. :shrug:

other than the occasionaly deal I get on a dvd tv set I basically been just watching my movies over the internet. I figure I only will watch a movie once maybe twice so why pay 20 bucks for dvd,hd-dvd or blu-ray? plus I go to the movies once a week and see all the blockbusters.