BuckNaked2k, Yeah the tin is the one he was talking about. I was unaware that the tin was the only way the three September released SW movies came in a box. But it was the tin.

Oh Jesus Christ...

Sure, Lucas "had ten years to get this right", but when people kept saying "we want the original versions on DVD!!!" I don't recall any mention ever being made that they had to be anamorphic or we'd reject them like an infant spitting up strained peas.

Besides, like I've kept saying, it was likely the zero-effort non-anamorphic transfers or nothing at all. I deal with a different type of fan base on a daily basis, and I sympathise with Lucasfilm in that whatever they offer, no matter how much people have demanded it, they're gonna find fault with it and complain until you just don't want to bother anymore.

Not likely. Plenty of people who actually work for him don't know him "on a working level", or in any other capacity. I realize that everybody's seen the STAR WARS DVD bonus material where he goes around to every department with his little "APPROVED" stamper, but you have to realize that A) they're all working on a STAR WARS film, and he's not normally that involved in the day-to-day workings of that place (i.e. he doesn't <b>live</b> on the ranch), and B) The people you see him interacting with in the documentaries are not even likely to be "pals" of the folks here in the forum, let alone Lucas himself.

The closest I've seen to an actual Lucasfilm "insider" is a guy who works for Dave Carson in some other (non-SW) capacity. And if you're asking yourself "Dave who?", then that proves my point.

I'm not saying that there's zero chance that anyone who reads and/or posts in this forum has any passing familiarity with Lucas in any capacity, just that all the desperate fanboys who post as if he's their favorite uncle or cantakerous neighbor "Well, knowing Lucas, he'd do this..." really annoy the shit outta me. If nothing else, the picture that's painted of Lucas sitting alone in a room with reams of letters from fans and deciding whether they're gonna get what they want like he's freakin' Santa Claus or something is simply preposterous.

Jeez... It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to get this. Anamorphic transfers were not specifically addressed because no one ever dreamed that Lucasfilm (of all companies) would release a 2.35:1 film in a non-anamorphic format. Next time, I suppose fans should take the time to request the blatantly obvious. “We would like the film released anamorphically. In color. Unedited. With the ending credits. With picture and sound. In NTSC in region 1, and PAL in region 2. etc…”

Do some fans find fault with any and/or every given Lucas' release? Sure, it stands to reason that you will always have a faction of complainers. But it doesn’t require a university study to see that the outcry over the non-anamorphic DVDs would have been FAR less significant if only the release had been anamorphic.

It’s funny that you make these points, because I am often rebuked when suggesting that film is a collaborative art form, and that when a director alone decides to make changes and alterations to an established film (and in the case of Star Wars, an Academy Award winning film; ...specifically, for special effects) he is, in effect, dishonoring those that created the original film; especially so if making a conscious effort to “phase-out” or even altogether bury the originally released work.

I don’t deny Lucas’ right to enhance the films that were admittedly derived from his own imagination. But, it took many individuals that supplied their own contributions to bring the films to fruition. Thus, I have always been of the opinion that the original films should receive at least equal treatment in terms of video releases.

Dan, I see your point regarding the collaborative nature of film, and I do agree that people like Clive Revill and Sebastian Shaw have a right to be pissed, but for the most part, these are the work of George Lucas, and no matter what people like Harrison Ellenshaw did, if Lucas finds a better way to do the backgrounds, out go the old matte paintings.

Obviously people can constantly revisit a film ad nauseum, and I don't disagree that the repeated revisions have become somewhat tiresome, but I accept the explanations given. I mean, it's not like he's going back to American Grafitti over and over again just to change people's lines or put new characters into the film. STAR WARS is, as it was originally described, "a big, sprawling space adventure". The result of the 1977 attempt has its charm, and we have a right to prefer it, but especially given the new, CGI-powered prequels (and annoying characters aside, you gotta admit that the grand scale of these films wouldn't be possible without CGI), I can't fault Lucas for trying to use existing technology to spruce up films that could be considered embarassing. Other directors have a different view and consider a film finished as soon as it's "locked", but I respect Lucas's right to make changes, and I'm of the opinion that many of those have indeed been for the better... but not all.

As for the non-anamorphic thing, OF COURSE it wouldn't have been an issue if they had released an anamorphic transfer, and if the films had been released in 2004 as non-anamorphic transfers, I could see how people could call that a bone-headed thing to do. However, we were asking for the ORIGNAL versions of the films, and as has been explained repeatedly, no original negative of the films as they ran in 1977 exists. Therefore, the video transfer done for the Laserdiscs was looked upon as being the best copy available.

People keep saying they only used that source because it required no effort, but I disagree. Given the fact that we weren't gonna be offered the pristine original trilogy to begin with, I do think that having that Laserdisc transfer was a key factor in us getting it at all, and if it had been lost or damaged, we'd probably be stuck with the SEs at the very least. Bill Hunt has claimed that an exhibition print could have been found, but again, finding the print and restoring it just isn't justified by the relatively small market for the <b>original</b> original trilogy. Besides, as I've said, people would complain about any defects in the exhibition print, and an anamorphic transfer would just have made them more evident.

Finally, I'll say that if anyone expects Lucasfilm to keep releasing the latest version of the films alongside the original versions, they're nuts. We've been thrown a bone, and I don't see the pristine versions resurfacing until the next big format comes along (possibly HD-DVD or Blu-ray), if ever.

So many paragraphs that all say the same thing - you're absolutely right, and must be the final word on the subject.

When you say things like "Oh Jesus Christ..." and "really annoy the shit outta me", you come across as a bit too arrogant. A know-it-all who must prove everyone wrong.

I hope that isn't what you are trying to do, but rather educate others. It's hard to tell what your intentions are.

That being said, it is a relief to see someone attempt to prevent the same tired Star Wars arguments from being repeated ad nauseam.

There should be a definitive Star Wars FAQ for every forum. ;)

I don't know if Revill is still alive, but I know Sebastian Shaw is dead in real life, and I honestly find it creepy to remove an actor from a 20+ year old film, and insert a new one. If you think about it, Shaw & the director Marquand are both dead now, and Lucas kinda did what he wanted to ROTJ. Atleast he directed ANH, and Kersher is still alive to make sure ESB is fucked up too much. Maybe I am making a bigger deal then it is, but I never had a problem with Lucas updating effects, but digitally removing dead actors? Has he any respect?

Well, whether they're alive or dead doesn't mean a lot to me, but I see where you're coming from. I guess it would be worse if he was removing them <i>because</i> they're dead, but of course he didn't even remove Shaw entirely, just at the end. You would think there'd be some kind of union rules regarding taking Revill's voice completely out (not to mention the woman and the baboon), but who knows? I actually like the substitution of McDiarmid, although I think the dialogue sucks.


Oh, and Nick, I don't claim to be the know-it-all you seem to perceive me as, I'm just really exasperated with the assumptions that are being made and the constant bitching. I'm just trying to inject a dose of reality, which is something I do feel I have a firm grip on.

Baboons have rights too! Someone call his agent!

:lol:

What? Those films didn't have "grand scale"? Are you kidding? A few matte lines are embarassing? I just don't get this...

Egon's Ghost, You have a point.

Lucas in his commentary states that the story is told from the points of some of the most insignificant characters. Grand intergalactic strife... but let's follow a couple of bickering robots. Even the point that New Hope was just American Graphitti: The Morning After. From Empire to Jedi it seems to take a broader look at things. But even when the repelion is scattered to the four winds Luke goes off for some quiet time (I am being a little fecitious here.) And as a metter of fact... The rebelion against the galactic opression is all but tossed off in favor of Han and Leia's story! Jedi turns into an Evening with Ewoks (or at worst a furry convention) while many Bothans died to have Admiral Akbar standing off stage rehearsing his lines (It's a trap!... no, IT'S a trap!... mmm. It is... A TRAAAP!) Then we get a feel for the weight of things. The fate of the galaxy is in the balance. But we still cut to the duel (Why this duel could not be better is beyond me. Empire was fantastic in comparison. but I digress.)

Okay: First, I realise that all the small events that we follow in the movies tie in to the big picture. But the point is that these are fairly personal stories, even the bits that I wish worked a little better. So my glib reviews should not be taken to harshly. I do love these movies.

I cannot fault Lucas for wanting to play with his things to make them all fit together better. But grand? Grand on a small scale maybe. Grand from the ground floor.

Hey, I found two cents.

Obviously, you don't. First off, it's more than just "a few matte lines". Secondly, the fact that for the most part the films don't have the scale that Lucas intended was precisely the problem. Like I said, it was <b>intended</b> to be a big, sprawling space adventure, so not only was Lucas dissatisfied with what he was able to accomplish back in the '70s, when 1997 rolled around and he had some new technology that could give him what he wanted in the first place, he went for it.

Besides, the "grand scale" I was talking about was in reference to the prequels -- you couldn't have stuff like the landing platform, entire cities that don't exist, etc. without CGI (i.e., you can't fly through a matte painting), nor could you have had thousands of Gungans fighting thousands of Battle Droids. In other words, CGI was a necessary evil.

I realize a lot of people think that the only CGI in the prequels is Jar Jar, and that they all revolve around him, but you're missing the forest for one goofy-looking tree.

I dont' think there's that many people who think that most of the CGI in teh prequels are just Jar Jar. I really think you're being pretty rediculous if you honestly believe, that many many people don't realize just how much CGI went into the new Star Wars films. For your argument Mike, you're placing a lot of assumptions on this guy.

And, it would seem a lot of asumptions on people in general. But maybe you are out in the public a great deal, Mike. If one is surrounded by people who swear the sky is green one might be prone to thinking every one is color blind or stupid. Is that it? Hanging around a lot of color blind Star Wars fans?

Oh, really, my grandmother would not know where CG started or ended or even what it could do! But even my Mother of 60 knows that these things are there. Maybe she would not if I wasn't in the illusion business...

I really hope that they get their heads on (for my sake) and fire off a 30th aniversary set.

Oh for Pete's sake... I'm only saying that Naboo, the Battle Droid battle, etc. couldn't have been done without CGI, so how is it 100% bad??? Fans of the LOTR trilogy are the first to condemn Lucas for using a bunch of CGI for sets and characters, but those movies are filled with CGI environments and characters!!!

I'm not making any kind of assumptions -- I'm simply trying to explain what I mean by "grand scale", and if this guy can't see that the prequels DO have a grand scale (i.e. huge cityscapes that don't exist but you can fly through them and actors appear on landing platforms floating above them, plus thousands of digital characters fighting each other), then he must be blinded by Jar Jar and Watto -- if there's some other explanation I'd like to hear it.

I bent my wookie.

You know that's pretty damn funny. I've risked being banned by coming to the defense of someone who was the victim of DarthMarino's misguided assumption, and <i>I'm</i> the one who makes assumptions about people??? I think not.

I may have missed a step as Darth Marino isn't ringing a bell, I'm not checking back on the previous pages because I'm a little lazy this sunday night. I for one understand your point about the differences in presentation regarding the two halves of the story. The Jedi space fight and the fight at the begining of Ep III were pretty spectacular. And the stories were different, Naboo and the gungans: part of a big GRAND SCALE event where Star Wars new hope was a boy in the sticks making his way to the big events.

Anyway, about assumptions: Clearly that torqued you a bit, and with the replies you've been getting here prob'ly would boil my tea as well. Didn't mean to be too forward.

No biggie, man. The thing I said about assumptions was that some guy who barely spoke English asked if the DVD for X-Men 3 was really supposed to be 4.08GB in size, and DarthMarino immediately jumped on him and accused him of wanting to make bootlegs of it, when the guy was clearly just trying to confirm that the disc he received was a bootleg. The guy responded by calling DarthMarino an asshole, and that was used as an excuse to immediately ban him. The guy came back to explain that him calling DarthMarino an asshole wasn't much different than DarthMarino accusing him of being a bootlegger, and was again promptly banned. I didn't see any of this until both threads had been closed, but it looked pretty much like an Abner Louima situation to me, and I posted in the guy's defense. Of course that was promptly moved to the Feedback Forum where nobody will ever see it, but for someone to tell me I make assumptions about people after that really pissed me off.

No harm done, though. As I just posted in another thread, I'm due for a break. I want a place to discuss DVDs enough to come back, but I have too much of a life to let shit like that fly without saying something, regardless of the consequences.

The whole problem with watching the saga either way now 1-6 or 4-6,1-3, is it is so jarring between trilogies. It isn't a matter of which technology is better, that is all opinion, but when you have one trilogy of CG landscapes like Kamino, Mustafar, Geonosis, and then you another trilogy where the actors are physically on location in Tatooine, Hoth, and Endor it makes you feel like you are watching two different trilogies instead of one saga.

If Lucas made the PT back in the mid 80's right after the OT, I believe they would work alot better as one saga. Sure there was always going to be complaints about the PT cause it didn't have Luke, Leia, and Han, but I think it would have flowed better 1-6 if it was made in the time the OT was made, and Lucas didn't have 20 years to jumble the storyline around like originally having Padme go into exile, and then have her die of the will to live.

The overall problem with making a PT is that I believe either way you watch it, the other trilogy is spoiled cause they were made out of order. If you watch the OT first, you know what is going to happen and there is no suspense or drama, you are just waiting three movies for Darth Vader to come to be. If you watch it 1-6, you are one step ahead of the characters and the big dramatic moments like 'I am your father', and Luke/Leia siblings are gone. Plus every first entrance of an OT character is ruined by the PT, Yoda acting like an idiot and then Luke saying, "Yoda?" doesn't work anymore cause you know who it is. Jabba being shown in TPM and ANH SE is ruined by the time you get to him in ROTJ. And the Emperor's mystique is gone in the OT after he acts like a buffoon in ROTS cackling like the Joker in Batman '89.

I am likely in the extreme minority, but because of this-- a technological gulf between the trilogies-- I hope, for the six-film set, Lucas gives the OT a serious facelift. I know a few things he could redo completely that would go a long way. I hope he tweaks them enough that the shift from ROTS to ANH isn't the bumpy ride it is now.

--THX

You know, I wouldn't mind this. I've said for years I wouldn't even mind if George remade 4-6 with all new actors and whatnot to better fit with the prequels; just as long as good copies of the original, original versions are kept in print also. I have no doubt that the next interation of the original trilogy we get will have a few more modifications to them, and honestly, the SEs never really bothered me until Lucas made it a point to try and suppress the original versions. If he'd allow both to co-exist, I can see a lot of this pointless bickering going away.


And coli, it's still jarring with the FX, but storywise, 4, 5, 1, 2, Clone Wars,3 then 6 really helps. It's a bit Tarantine-esque I suppose, but it's pretty neat still.

I agree, the war-torn universe excuse is ridiculous, they're vastly different in look and feel. The thing I find frustrating is that the SE's (and additional releases) have been so half-assed. Obvious things like lightsabers, etc STILL have not been fixed, which is absurd. And don't they have a way to clear up the muffled audio bits in ANH?

I also hope for a complete overhaul, with an eventual release in a couple of yrs. Unfortuantely with the way Lucas has done it we're going to be stuck with 4 or 5 different versions, rather than simply two.

Who was it back there who said the OT should be restored released to DVD in pristine shape adn then if George Lucas wants to he can remake them with new folks if he wants to? Not a horrid idea. Kind of exciting. But Lucas said that he was excited to get past Star Wars and move onto different things. Accept that he's doing the Star Wars TV shows and those will take years. And you know what?

Here's what. This is just from me, some schmuck that doesn't know too much. But I'm tired. hehe. If There's a box set, and I hope there is I'll get it. I don't' have anything else of Star Wars on DVD but the limited ones with the OT on a second disc. I'd be happy to get the big one. And if George wants to make more then great. Re-make, make 3-d, construct huge damn zoetropes and show the movie on those. Might make Coppolla chuckle. I suppose I'll just have to wait and see. Novel, I know. I relaly hope you make the thing, Lucas. IT would be cool, well could be cool.