JZ1276

Deleted scene Clar & Jimmy when Clark bumps into the guy before getting into the elvator...guys says "you should try sleeping at night" and Clark runs into a closet or bathroom...what was the meaning?

kevkev

i havnt watched the theatrical version for years but the tv version has that at the end. it just reminds clark to go and settle the score with the bully in the diner.

CinemaslaveJoe

Speaking of Clark beating up the bully at the end of Superman II (Richard Donner version):

If Superman spins the planet backwards at the end of the movie, thereby causing everyone to forget the events of the past few days (repairing all the damage to Metropolis and Washington DC, putting the Kryptonian criminals back in the Phantom Zone, etc.), then why does Clark need to go back to the diner at all? The original events (Clark getting beaten up at the diner) now *never happened in that timeline*. Only Clark remembers it.

So are we to believe that as far as everyone else is concerned, Clark Kent walks into a diner and proceeds to whale the living crap out a guy at the bar for no discernible reason? Or, if you're going to argue that the people at the bar remember Clark being there earlier, then why has Lois forgotten everything? There's no "amnesia kiss" in the Donner cut. It struck me as a pretty big error.

This week's episode of Cinemaslave (Show #72) focuses on the Donner cut of "Superman II," if anyone's interested in checking it out. See my SIG file, below.

-CSJ

rfduncan

I thought the same thing. And Clark even tosses the diner's owner money to pay for the repairs from "last time". I was like, huh?

Overall, the spinning the earth backwards a second time was just weak. I mean Superman could basically have a do-over every time he made the "wrong" choice in any situation.

Mike Adams

The time-reversal thing was a wonderful moment as shown in the first film, where it was the only way to save Lois's life, and he was bombarded with images warning him not to interfere with human history -- a fantastic moment indeed. The version in SII:TRDC is illustrated nicely (Perry's toothpaste, etc.), but the deaths he's trying to reverse aren't as obvious, and we're all used to post-hero/villian skirmish destruction being left in the aftermath, but the whole thing where the guy actually remembers Clark, as does everyone else in the diner, really screws up that version of the film for me, even though I have no love for or even interest in the original.

Also, to be fair, it was only supposed to happen once, at the end of SII. Makes for a stronger moment in the first film, but there was never any intention for there to be two instances of it. That's only a result of it being moved up into the first film, and then later restored in the Donner cut of the second. The "amnesia kiss" would probably have been a better choice, but given that this was supposed to be the Donner cut, I understand why they gave us the world-spinning thing again. It's nice to see it as archive footage, but it's not really intended to be the actual story. Revisionist history, but in a good way.

Shannon Nutt

Not to mention that the waitress tells Rocky "I just got this place fixed". Umm...fixed from what?

Donner's obsession with keeping the "super kiss" out of his new cut was a big mistake. He seems to blame Lester for taking over the movie more than blaming the Salkinds for firing him.

CinemaslaveJoe

Absolutely! This has long been my problem with the Superman franchise. Not only does it give Superman an almost inconceivable amount of power, it also effectively removes every bit of suspense from the film series. Even in Superman Returns, during the scene where Lois and her family are in danger of drowning on the sinking boat, I remember thinking that it didn't matter if Superman got there quickly or not... he can always reverse time again if they die. Seems like it gives him an unlimited amount of "do overs."

I could buy it if some type of cap was placed on this power (i.e., "You can reverse time once with the help of this green crystal, Kal-El, but afterwards you will never be able to do this again"), but I don't like the way it's kindof a "get out of jail free" card now.

-CSJ

Mike Adams

Again, this was only supposed to happen once, and even so, it wasn't meant to be examined so thoroughly. The thing that sucks is having it put back into Superman II where it does get severely cheapened. The "cap" on this power was pretty plain in the first film, in that he was never supposed to do something like that. He did it once to save the life of the woman he loves, just as he gave up his powers once for her sake. The ability to turn time backwards by reversing the earth's rotation only becomes perceived as "unlimited do-overs" when you see it done at the end of the Donner cut of II. It's apparently supposed to be slightly humorous, given that it's illustrated with Perry squeezing the toothpaste out, etc. In the first film it's presented much better, as something he is forbidden to do. He is so distraught over Lois's death that he defies this mandate once in order to save her life, but it's not nearly as casual as it seemed in Donner's version of II. Again, it's not the act itself that's a problem, it's the way it was intended to be presented originally that cheapens it, not to mention the fact that it shows up twice now because of the Donner cut of II being released. There almost should have been a Donner "re-cut" of I without that in there, so people would understand he was only supposed to do it ONCE.

The best example of what I'm trying to say is that in STAR WARS, a family of Wookies isn't such a ridiculous concept, but because multiple Wookies were introduced in The STAR WARS Holiday Special, it cheapens the concept, which wouldn't have happened if Revenge of the Sith was the first time we'd have been introduced to multiple Wookies. Also, if we hadn't have already seen the Ewoks, a tribe of Wookies would have been easier to take.

digitalfreaknyc

Shouldn't this be in the movies forum?

Mike Adams

Well, it does talk about scenes that were only on the Donner DVD.

digitalfreaknyc

Nice try.