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Star Wars OT Non SE 09.12.06 PART 2

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Star Wars OT Non SE 09.12.06 PART 2

Old 09-07-06, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Egon's Ghost
EXAAAACTLY!!

Josh, I don't think you're giving enough credit to Marquand and Kirshener; certainly, Lucas can't take too much credit for the quality of the writing and acting in Empire, and the drama (in my view) of Jedi. The second trilogy makes that pretty clear.
I disagree, The second trilogy began 16 years after ROTJ, Lucas hadn't directed anything since the first Star Wars (unless you believe the ROTJ reports), he was a pretty different (rusty) person by then.

Really it's ridiculous to compare PT era Lucas to OT era. Especially when you consider he directed ANH (a truly great film), and he was much closer to that person during TESB and ROTJ than TPM, AOTC or ROTS.

Kershner does deserve the credit for making the drama effective, he was there on set with the actors, and obviously he works quite well with them. Still, it was Lucas who decided on how the film would develop character and plot wise; he mapped all of that out. It was up to Kershner to execute that.

I think Kershner also deserves credit for deploying the most effective humor in the Saga as well. He was smart enough to inject a reasonable and believeable balance of laughs with the tragic events in the film. If Lucas directed the film, we would have never gotten Han Solo's "I know". Which, outside of Vader's reveal, is the most emotional part of the film and summaries the feel of the film in just one moment.

Film's are collaborative efforts and TESB wouldn't be the film we all love without Kershner, Kasdan, the actors, FX people, even Leigh Brackett. They all ultimately led to one of the greatest films of all time. Lucas was the driving force behind the film, however, and the success or failure of any of the Star Wars films ultimately falls in his lap. To place all of the success of the film on him is silly, but I have no problems giving him the majority of it.
Old 09-07-06, 12:15 PM
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I've often felt, that after he worked on 1-III, and how nice and polished they look , and then the IV-IV take place "after" but look like they happend 1000 years before
If you mean film's look, then this is not relevant but if you mean the looks of the buildings, ships, etc... it makes total sense.

Episodes 4-VI (your numbering system ) take place after a war. while the prequels are full of lavish buildings and slick ships, many of those buildings are gone post war and the ships are now being made with less new/raw materials. take a look at one of the first Clone Wars cartoons--a city with beautiful castles and palaces gets demolished with reckless abandon.

For a real-world example, look at Europoe before WW2 and after.
Old 09-07-06, 12:46 PM
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Is there a boxset available for the non SE's/SE's?
Old 09-07-06, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by grim_tales
Is there a boxset available for the non SE's/SE's?
Yes.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....p=1&id=1562088
Old 09-07-06, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by speedy1961
This is the same DVDs coming out on the 12th (2004 SE with orig. version on bonus disc), but in a tin, right?
Old 09-07-06, 05:31 PM
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Yes.
Old 09-07-06, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Yes.
Hmmm. I don't see it on Amazon...I just may have to get that sumbitch.
Old 09-07-06, 05:39 PM
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FRwL, you having nothing to support anything your saying about Leigh Brackett's involvement in TESB. She died in 1978 (a year before filming began) and was sick the whole time she wrote her part, and you expect the majority of her draft (which was incomplete by the way), to have somehow made it all the way to 1980? That's ridiculous.

Your whole issue of it being more serious is something I'm willing to credit to Kershner than Brackett. Kershner probably wrote more of the script than Brackett actually.

And for your information Kasdan wrote Raiders of the Lost Ark before he wrote TESB. That's enough to justify his involvement in TESB as well.

You're just completely off base in what you're saying.
Old 09-07-06, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Egon's Ghost
Hmmm. I don't see it on Amazon...I just may have to get that sumbitch.
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Epis...?ie=UTF8&s=dvd

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Epis...?ie=UTF8&s=dvd

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Epis...?ie=UTF8&s=dvd
Old 09-07-06, 05:48 PM
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He's talking about the tin, Big Worms.
Old 09-07-06, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
He's talking about the tin, Big Worms.
Oops. My bad.

I thought he knew this was a BB exclusive.
Old 09-07-06, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by FRwL
And many Bond fans as well. You need to stop judging this film based on content like an aging Connery, no EON production, no barrel sequence/Bond music and instead judge it on how the film stands on its own - it's a very well made film if you grow more familiar with it and is much better crafted than many of the Bond movies themselves.
Since this thread is full of discussions about special edition changes anyway, I've always wondered how Never Say Never Again would play if they went back and added a traditional barrel sequence and opening credits (done in a retro style to match the film's era of course) and if the film was rescored with some traditional Bond musical cues here and there, again done in a retro style... the discoish For Your Eyes Only score would probably work best for that.
Old 09-07-06, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Wannabe
The original architecture did not portray a penthouse apartment, so the view out the windows had visible spokes, as opposed to open sky with a cloud car.
But, but, but, that would mean that one of the changes in the SEs actually made sense, thereby making the movie better. We can't have that.
Old 09-07-06, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by GuessWho
If you mean film's look, then this is not relevant but if you mean the looks of the buildings, ships, etc... it makes total sense.

Episodes 4-VI (your numbering system ) take place after a war. while the prequels are full of lavish buildings and slick ships, many of those buildings are gone post war and the ships are now being made with less new/raw materials. take a look at one of the first Clone Wars cartoons--a city with beautiful castles and palaces gets demolished with reckless abandon.

For a real-world example, look at Europoe before WW2 and after.
Plus, a lot of the PT takes place on Coruscant, the center of the Republic, and Naboo, a wealthy planet. Most of the OT takes place in rustic, frontier places, hastily assembled rebel bases, a swamp, and a beat up freighter.
Old 09-07-06, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason
But, but, but, that would mean that one of the changes in the SEs actually made sense, thereby making the movie better. We can't have that.
Make sense? Sure. Make the movie better? I don't know. Did you really find yourself not enjoying the movie just the slightest bit because that interior didn't match up with the establishing shot?

Sure, the shots match up better now, but as someone else pointed out, you lose the authenticity of the window glare and the rust streaks. Personally, I think at best it's a wash.
Old 09-07-06, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Worms
I thought he knew this was a BB exclusive.
Ah, now we're on the same page.
Old 09-07-06, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by The Third Jake
Make sense? Sure. Make the movie better? I don't know. Did you really find yourself not enjoying the movie just the slightest bit because that interior didn't match up with the establishing shot?
TESB went from my sixth favorite Star Wars film to the first because of this change.
Old 09-07-06, 06:36 PM
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No one would care WHAT Lucas did to the movies if he simply treated the originals with the reverence they deserved and gave them releases equal in scope to the CGI butcheries he puts out.

He's been very irresponsible in how he's handled the Original Trilogy. His decision to release them in the state we'll be getting next week is a very bitter move and a single step up from not releasing them at all. Fan complaint has backed him into a corner and instead of owning up and doing the right thing in the right way, he's being petty and childish.
Old 09-08-06, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Drop
FRwL, you having nothing to support anything your saying about Leigh Brackett's involvement in TESB.
Have you seen the original draft of TESB? Right, you're just going along with what you'd like to believe without knowing anything you're talking about.

And for your information Kasdan wrote Raiders of the Lost Ark before he wrote TESB. That's enough to justify his involvement in TESB as well.
I believe GL was the writer of Raiders.
Old 09-08-06, 07:30 AM
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I don't think there is really going to be a box (unless a retailer packs them all together). The tin is a BB exclusive, but otherwise, the whole purpose of this release was that they are available as individual movies for the first time. It's kind of like how The Godfather trilogy was sold as a set then later as individual movies. The OUT is just a bonus thrown in to sell more DVDs (or, to give them the benefit of the doubt, a consession to fan demands by releasing what they had on hand-that is, without having to spend the millions to restore it properly). If it weren't for the original version bonus this wouldn't even rank as a double dip, just a reissue.
Old 09-08-06, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by FRwL
Have you seen the original draft of TESB? Right, you're just going along with what you'd like to believe without knowing anything you're talking about.
Have you seen the original draft of TESB?

This page lists all the different drafts of the Star Wars films, with notes:
http://starwarz.com/starkiller/writings/cguide.htm

For Empire, it mentions that Lucas wrote two drafts himself after Brackett's. Kasdan based his script on Lucas's drafts, while only ever skimming Brackett's.

I believe GL was the writer of Raiders.
Lucas is credited with story, but Lawrence Kasdan wrote the screenplay:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082971/fullcredits#writers

Last edited by Jay G.; 09-08-06 at 09:20 AM.
Old 09-08-06, 10:39 AM
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Anyone interested in the development of the OT screenplays should get this fantastic book:

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Scre...e=UTF8&s=books

It goes into detail about all of the drafts, how things developed, what was added/dropped/etc.

It also makes it pretty damn clear that Leigh Brackett's involvement was nothing more than a glorified outline and that very little (basically none) of it ended up in the finished product. She's given credit as (a) a tribute/thank you for the work and (b) to avoid any potential suits by heirs claiming that something was her invention.
Old 09-08-06, 10:42 AM
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Don't think anyones mentioned this, but our resident Star Wars nerd has reviewed the new release of A New Hope:

http://www.dvdactive.com/reviews/dvd...new-hope2.html
Old 09-08-06, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by FRwL
Have you seen the original draft of TESB? Right, you're just going along with what you'd like to believe without knowing anything you're talking about.
I'm going along with what the people who created the film have said. You are basing your opinion on what you would like to believe without knowing what you are talking about.

At this point your credibility is dwindling because you got the Raiders fact completely wrong, which is really quite easy to check. It seems quite obvious to me you have not done any research on this.

I know there has been a discussion somewhere either on this forum or HTF or an article specifically addressing this issue, but I know it's generally accepted that Brackett had very little to do with TESB final script, and therefore the actual film.
Old 09-08-06, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Woodward
Don't think anyones mentioned this, but our resident Star Wars nerd has reviewed the new release of A New Hope:

http://www.dvdactive.com/reviews/dvd...new-hope2.html
I have to say, I think these shots look better in the non-anamorphic, 1993 master of the original. The 2004 is very dark, and blues look too strong. The stormtroopers in the Leia shot have blue tint!

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