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Police raid Michigan comic convention, shut down DVD bootlegs

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Police raid Michigan comic convention, shut down DVD bootlegs

Old 05-21-06, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Reservoir
For years George Lucas has lied again and again. OK, now he's releasing Stars Wars as it was (and should be) and every fan well rebuy again. How many times is that?
Uhh...not "every."

Have you been to the Star Wars thread? I think a lot (most) of us won't.
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Old 05-21-06, 11:25 AM
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Wow!

I should have went.
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Old 05-21-06, 12:32 PM
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Supply and demand, folks. If the studios supplied the product I want I would buy it from them, otherwise...

I'm thinking of rare/obscure films that do not get released because of a perceived lack of profitability, not held up by some petty copyright dispute. I could literally list hundreds.

Last edited by JerryKILL; 05-21-06 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 05-21-06, 01:22 PM
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Good old opinions and laws, stirring debate since 1858.
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Old 05-21-06, 01:32 PM
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Why don't the movie companies have a made-to-order business where if you want something in there library thats not available on dvd and free of copyright problems?They could charge 100 dollars for one yr of a tv series or 30 dollars for a movie making it profitable for them and keeping the diehard collectors happy.
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Old 05-21-06, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
Uhh...not "every."
Have you been to the Star Wars thread? I think a lot (most) of us won't.
Then they are not fanatical about the films.
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Old 05-21-06, 04:55 PM
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I went to the convention today and talked to some people about what happened. Apparently the raid was very specific, all the dealers busted were offering bootlegs of The DaVinci Code.

The anime dealers were left alone, probably because most law enforcement folk only know the major names, not anime.
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Old 05-21-06, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Reservoir
For years George Lucas has lied again and again. OK, now he's releasing Stars Wars as it was (and should be) and every fan well rebuy again. How many times is that?
The first time the original original trilogy will be on a home video format in quite a few years, actually, since Lucas told the public they would be released one last time then never again, back before the release of the 97 editions. And I doubt every fan will buy the new DVDs. Some will (gasp) actually be comfortable with the changes he made to the 2004 editions and continue living their lives.

Last edited by calhoun07; 05-21-06 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 05-21-06, 05:37 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by ThatGuamGuy
If these are bootleggers, wouldn't it be the FBI who arrested them?

I think it's funny that people (not you, MasterCX) are ignoring the part about how at least some of the bootlegs were of movies currently in releases; folks, we *want* bootleggers like that arrested. Used stores buy bootlegs from people like this quite often, in my experience (inadvertantly, I'm sure).
It's unfortunate that the video community doesn't distinguish between "pirating" and "bootlegging". And worse than that, associates the lesser term "bootleg" with the more serious act of "piracy".

BOOTLEG = selling a homegrown product that isn't officially released.
PIRATE = selling a homegrown copy of an official product.

Originally Posted by ThatGuamGuy
Anybody selling other bootlegs at the con, I feel bad they got busted, but they ought to be selling on-line anyway (which, I would imagine, is where the comic sellers who no longer attend the con are).

And I don't buy the argument of "well, then the studios should release them!" If the bootleggers are doing it out of the goodness of their heart and not making a profit, I have no problem with it (examples: a lot of 'MST3k' fans, or some of the people who have made 'Star Wars' boots), but if you're charging premium prices for something you burned 100 copies of to DVD from an old VHS taped off of TV, I have no sympathy.
At the conventions and expos that I attend, vendors know the rules and don't offer PIRATED material, or are immediately shut down should they try to pedal PIRATED material. Thankfully, BOOTLEG stuff is left alone.
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Old 05-21-06, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by sracer
It's unfortunate that the video community doesn't distinguish between "pirating" and "bootlegging". And worse than that, associates the lesser term "bootleg" with the more serious act of "piracy".

BOOTLEG = selling a homegrown product that isn't officially released.
PIRATE = selling a homegrown copy of an official product.


At the conventions and expos that I attend, vendors know the rules and don't offer PIRATED material, or are immediately shut down should they try to pedal PIRATED material. Thankfully, BOOTLEG stuff is left alone.

To bootleg means to produce, distribute or sell without permission or illegally (Dictionary.com)

Or we can go to Merriam-Webster, where the term "bootleg" is defined as "to produce, reproduce, or distribute illicitly or without authorization."

The terms "bootlegging" and "piracy" are pretty much interchangable.
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Old 05-21-06, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MovieExchange
To bootleg means to produce, distribute or sell without permission or illegally (Dictionary.com)

Or we can go to Merriam-Webster, where the term "bootleg" is defined as "to produce, reproduce, or distribute illicitly or without authorization."

The terms "bootlegging" and "piracy" are pretty much interchangable.
Is a distinction made between items that are intended to be passed off as original as opposed to those that you can tell the difference. Some bootlegs are actually real pressed dvds rather than burned dvd-rs. "Counterfeit" maybe.
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Old 05-21-06, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rexinnih
It's against the law. 'Nuff said.
You wouldn't steal a car, would you? Except if you were in Michigan right now, where you can get away with it because the cops are raiding comic conventions..........
Well here in CA, laws aren't enforced (i.e. speeding, driving while distracted, coming over the border w/o permission, murder if you're a celebrity, etc...). There's no danger of this happening at the Comic-Con in July.
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Old 05-21-06, 07:20 PM
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My problem with bootlegs...

The covers.

I am a member of two different cover sites and design custom covers sometimes and when I see the low quality covers the bootleggers use I want to punch them in the face.

"You expect me to buy a $20 copy of 'Begotten' with that to represent it?"

And I would like them to have a 16X9 TV there to show me the quality.

I don't care if studios lose money. If they wanted the money or product out there they would release it.

*Case in point, Shout Factory paying the money to get Freaks and Geeks out there with music intact. Of which, I paid the extra money for the yearbook edition.

P.S. I do not own any bootlegs, not even ones that I really want like Begotten or Salo. Eventually one day I will save up the money for both.
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Old 05-21-06, 08:03 PM
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Some of the people in this thread talk out of both sides of their mouths with such impunity that it's actually grotesque. On one hand, those people say that bootlegging is tolerable because art is being shared with the public. On the other hand, they are deliberately ignoring the wishes of artists (or owners of the art, such as publishers) due to their own senses of entitlement.

You are not entitled to a work of art simply because you want it. Publishers have as much right to art as the artists, since they in effect commission the art or purchase it after the fact. You do not have the right to take from these people simply because they are rich.
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Old 05-21-06, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by wewantflair
Some of the people in this thread talk out of both sides of their mouths with such impunity that it's actually grotesque. On one hand, those people say that bootlegging is tolerable because art is being shared with the public. On the other hand, they are deliberately ignoring the wishes of artists (or owners of the art, such as publishers) due to their own senses of entitlement.

You are not entitled to a work of art simply because you want it. Publishers have as much right to art as the artists, since they in effect commission the art or purchase it after the fact. You do not have the right to take from these people simply because they are rich.
Wow, such sweeping generalizations. Tell me, did you actually bother to read what has been said in this thread?
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Old 05-21-06, 09:02 PM
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wow, everyone should be proud of our brave policemen stopping those money-stealing criminals for bootlegging SILVERHAWKS, SILVER SPOONS, TURKISH STAR WARS, RAMBO cartoon, and TRANSFORMERS HEADMASTERS cartoon DVDs...good job police! Hollywood will now gain back the money they have been losing thanks to the good work! Instead of putting these guys in prison, they should take away their comics, action figures, and kick them out of momma's house. That's more of a punishment for them than fines or jailtime....it's good to see our hard-earned tax money preventing the enjoyment of American pop culture events...
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Old 05-21-06, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MovieExchange
Wow, such sweeping generalizations. Tell me, did you actually bother to read what has been said in this thread?
Yes. And I saw lots of people advocating bootlegging unreleased or OOP material.
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Old 05-21-06, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by wewantflair
Yes. And I saw lots of people advocating bootlegging unreleased or OOP material.
I saw the opposite.

My opinion:

if it's something like da DaVinci code, there is no excuse. Book 'em.

If it's something obscure that is never going to come out officially anyways, then I don't see a problem with it.
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Old 05-21-06, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by nodeerforamonth
Well here in CA, laws aren't enforced (i.e. speeding, driving while distracted, coming over the border w/o permission, murder if you're a celebrity, etc...). There's no danger of this happening at the Comic-Con in July.
Please elaborate about how laws aren't enforced, because I'd like to disagree.

Also explain what happened to the bootleg table that was removed at last year's Comic-Con. Oh, they must've sold out in 3 hours and left, right?
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Old 05-22-06, 01:40 AM
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The sellers knew what they were doing was illegal. They took the chance when they decided it was a good idea to sell the bootlegs. They got caught this time. End of story. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
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Old 05-22-06, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by TomOpus
Please elaborate about how laws aren't enforced, because I'd like to disagree.
I live in CA and would like to disagree as well. They enforce all the laws that generate revenue - e.g. parking, speeding, jay walking etc - OK none of the other ones - killing, beating (particularly if they are the ones doing it-I think it is in the job perks) theft, crossing borders... I've gotten two parking tickets and one speeding in CA but when I called to notify them that my car had been broken into and nearly $800 in stuff was stolen - they couldn't be bothered to show (Culver City Police - just want to say thanks again!). Somehow they managed to show within 5 minutes after I parked my car and he meter ran out. Amazingly they call every year to ask for money for the policeman's ball. Can't tell you how many times I've donated - I really can't


Just so you know I'm not against all cops- I worked with a great team back east. They only gave out tickets for gross violations - their budget was not in any way dependent on revenue generating activities such as parking, speeding, etc. Their only concern was crime such as theft and killing. The place is right on the border of a bad city so the cops have to deal with gangs etc. but they do a good job of keeping serious crime down by focusing their efforts on real criminal activities.

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Old 05-22-06, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by wewantflair
Yes. And I saw lots of people advocating bootlegging unreleased or OOP material.
Aaaand where did you see people saying they were "entitled" to it?

Or are you just putting words in their mouths? I'm guessing you are.
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Old 05-22-06, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by calhoun07
The first time the original original trilogy will be on a home video format in quite a few years, actually, since Lucas told the public they would be released one last time then never again, back before the release of the 97 editions. And I doubt every fan will buy the new DVDs. Some will (gasp) actually be comfortable with the changes he made to the 2004 editions and continue living their lives.
Already have the orignal on VHS and the "Updated" version on DVD, so I will not be spending anymore money on the "Old" DVD.
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Old 05-22-06, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MovieExchange
Aaaand where did you see people saying they were "entitled" to it?

Or are you just putting words in their mouths? I'm guessing you are.
Would you care to offer an alternative idea for doing buying bootlegs? "Because I want to" or "because the companies won't release it/them in R1" are both examples of feelings of entitlement.
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Old 05-22-06, 11:08 AM
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They did nothing.

With bootleg outfits like Video Asia, and dozens more in actual stores and video stores. I mean with places like HK Flix selling hundreds of boots online, what did they do? They shut down a couple of vendors. That's it. This does NOTHING to stop bootlegging. To stop that, you need to crack down on ALL bootleggers, starting with the large outfits. Fans will still get the stuff they want by trading, but then the movies will go back to being something companies can actually sell. Right now, companies look at niche market titles and then look if they've been booted. If they've been booted, it's a near instant pass.
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