I am looking for the dvd(s) of 2 Buster Keaton's movies, The General and Steamboat Bill Jr.

I found some editions, one for Steamboat from Kino Video and another from Image. What do you suggest me? Kino, Image, another company? Or maybe wait for a new edition of those movies coming soon (with luck)? Thanks!

I've got the Kino version of the General and I'd recommend it.

Definitely the Kino. I've got the Art of Buster Keaton set, and the Kino discs are excellent.

As DVD Beaver shows--if you're limited to an NTSC disc (Region 1)--the Image release has the better picture quality.

Kino uses the Robert Israel scores for The General and Steamboat Bill, Jr.*, while Image has the Alloy Orchestra. NPR's Fresh Air broadcast a piece on the Alloy scores in 2002 that you should definitely listen to.

*EDIT: The score for the Kino Steamboat Bill, Jr. is not by Robert Israel; instead, it's done by legendary silent film organist Gaylord Carter (who had a very close working relationship with Harold Lloyd).

Although I also own Kino's wonderful The Art of Buster Keaton boxset, I would definitely go with the Image for these two comic masterpieces.

If you happen to have an all-region DVD player that can play PAL discs (as some of us do), the mk2 discs from France (Region 0 PAL) are mighty tempting, but are also considerably more expensive.

I don't think one is really better than the other. If you look at DVDBeaver, you'll see that the Image and Kino discs are different but similar. To quote Gary:

This is pretty hard. The Eureka has NTSC ->PAL 'ghosting', the Kino has the most apparent damage (see first capture) and the Image Entertainment disc is dark. The Kino is slightly cropped on both sides. Overall the Image disc is the sharpest. You may want to turn the brightness up on your system, but the Image is the better quality picture. <snip> I am troubled by the darkness of the Image DVD as background information is often removed from the film.

I've seen both and one isn't significantly better than the other. I'd look at the extras that you're getting. If you don't mind buying two discs, getting the Keaton shorts is well worth the extra cost IMO. Cops is my favorite comedy short of all time, and Convict 13 is also very funny.

When all is said and done, you won't go wrong buying either. For my money, I'd go for the Kino discs and get the extra shorts.

kino....

This is wonderful. Thanks guys, I'll look at it. If some people want to put more comments they're welcome. I don't think I'll buy them tonight...

By the way I bought the Shorts films (2 discs) out 2 weeks ago... can't wait to look at 'em!

I realize this is a pretty old thread now, but does anyone have any recommendations on which release of the General has the best score?

The Image release looks to probably have the best picture quality, but the score takes a beating from multiple reviewers on Amazon. Anyone here have any insight?

Get the MK2 release of The General. 5.1 soundtrack (2004 Joe Hisaishi score) in it is excellent with strong bass and active rear speakers. Plus there is 1995 Robert Israel score (2.0).

It does look like the MK2 has both the best picture and audio. I'd prefer that it wasn't PAL, so I'd have more flexibility in which players I can play it in, but I will probably have to just settle for that. My one concern is whether or not the MK2's complete removal of the sepia tones is true to the original theatrical presentation. I can't seem to find any information on that so far.

I've owned both the Kino and Image discs. And while I felt the Image release had a clearly better picture, I don't like the modern sounding Alloy much at all which makes enjoying the movie difficult. If I did it over again I would keep the Kino release because of the ,imo, more appropriate score.

The sepia tone and tinting for night scenes are removed from MK2 transfer. Check out DVDBeaver for shot comparisons.

yeah, i know the sepia tone was removed - my concern is whether or not it should have been.

Opps! My bad.

It's a tough question. I don't think the removal of sepia tone or tinting in The General matters as much as what epic or melodrama silent-films would. If I saw the removal of such aesthetics in Intolerance, Napoleon or maybe even Broken Blossoms then I would be greatly concerned. This film on the other hand, is more light-hearted and most salient on Buster Keaton and his performance. I personally don't mind the presentation of MK2 whether it was or was not the director's or original look because I get the same enjoyment of watching.

OK. I finally sat down and actually watched this movie for the first time since I bought the disc (the Image version) and I have to take back what I said completely. Alloy did a stupendous job scoring this. It seemed jarring when heard in snatches as I chapter skipped around, but taken as a complete experience from start to finish, I was actually very impressed. This may be one of my favorite silent film scores ever now, as it was keyed so well to the activity and mood onscreen. Major props and a huge mea culpa.
As for the film itself...if this isn't an essential title for anyone that considers themself a film buff, I don't know what is. As timeless as any film there is, imho.

Thanks for your thoughts on the Alloy score, Paul.

Here's a question that I have and I probably just need to research it a bit more: didn't the General have a specific original score when it played theatrically? I mean, in the form of sheet music for the theater musician(s) to play accompanying the film? If so, do any of the DVD releases have this original score (obviously recorded by modern musicians)?

I've had several editions of the film. The first one I had was a cheapie from the Wal-Mart bargain bin—you know how it is, some small company grabs a public domain movie, throws whatever public domain music they can find on it, and releases it?

Later on, I bought the Image disc, and was quite pleased. Of the available scores, I honestly do think the Alloy Orchestra one is the best in terms of enhancing the experience of the movie. And, as a side benefit, it includes Steamboat Bill, Jr. as well. (Did you know that the first Mickey Mouse cartoon was a parody of that movie?)

But later I heard that there was a DVD with a score by Jo Hisaishi on it available from France. So I figured, what the heck? And I bought that, too, from amazon.fr. (Responding to an earlier poster, it's not really that expensive. It's 16.67 Euros, which at current conversion rates is $26.26, plus shipping.)

And wow, what a disc. Not only does it have both Hisaishi's score and the more traditional Robert Israel (which weaves in a number of traditional tunes including "When Johnny Comes Marching Home" and, oddly enough, "The Teddy Bears' Picnic"), but it has more extras than just about any other DVD I've ever seen—and they're all available in English. (Even the menus can be viewed in English, Spanish, French, and a zillion other languages—including, of all things, Esperanto. Who puts DVD menus in Esperanto?)

You've got a couple of Keaton films, including the last movie Keaton ever made, Buster Keaton Rides Again. You've got a full-length documentary on Keaton's life and the making of Rides Again, narrated by Orson Welles (who was a great friend and admirer of Keaton). You've got Orson Welles bookends for the movie from when it was shown on TV. You've got featurettes on the restoration of the film, and the recording of the Hisaishi score. You've got a newsreel-style film of the real "General" train (which wasn't actually used in Keaton's movie). You've got the trailer for the Disney movie starring Fess Parker that was based on the same historical incident. You've got enough stuff that $26 + transatlantic shipping seems decidedly cheap for what you get.

Funny thing, though—while Hisaishi writes great music in general, his is almost universally considered the worst score for The General. It isn't "heroic" enough, doesn't do enough to accentuate the action of the film. If I'm watching the version on that disc for enjoyment, I'll generally stick to the Israel—but if I want to watch the movie itself for enjoyment, I'll probably go with the Image disc with the Alloy Orchestra. I'm quite happy to have both versions.

The movie quality itself is top-notch on both discs. They seem to have been the result of two independent restoration and remastering projects on the movie, and they both did a great job. It's just that Image decided to go with the sepia-tinting that reflected Keaton's original vision for the film (note: it's not just for night scenes, it has that golden sepia tint all the way from start to finish), and MK2 didn't.

If you want to order the disc, just log into amazon.fr using your amazon.com ID and password. It will automatically fill in your shipping and billing information, so all you have to worry about is navigating the French enough to place your order—and since the order screens are standardized between Amazons, it's really not that hard at all. It is a PAL R2 DVD, but those bobbles are easy enough to deal with in this day and age.

just wanted to add- I hadn't planned on watching this anytime soon. I guess with all the Indiana Jones hype currently, that my sub-conscious made the movie selection last night, and I couldn't have made a more satisfying choice. The way Keaton blends humour and action and stunts and heroic derring do - without once ever eliciting an "oh...yeah, right" eyeroll...is just magic.

Image/Alloy edition uses a new HD transfer, Kino uses old 1990s transfer with Robert Israel's score.

The MK2 also uses the HD transfer, but it's overly bright and missing tints.

One funny thing to me is that this movie really shows just how much Jackie Chan modeled his brand of physical comedy after Keaton's—their body language is just so similar. Many times while watching this movie, I've caught myself half-thinking that I'm watching Jackie Chan.

Well, after some persistent googling, I found the following statement on this website :
Assuming that website is accurate (and it sure seems to have tons of info about Keaton and the General), I feel better about importing the MK2.

I'm still stumped about the various scores, but it sounds like it just comes down to personal preference.

Does anyone have the version featured in this DVDTalk review? http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/28947/general-the/ Looks like it's only available through the Mont Alto website, but supposedly has the best score and good picture quality. I can't find any info for this release other than the DVDTalk review.

Whoa, good find. That throws a new wrench into the choices for a quality version of The General. You might try e-mailing or PMing the reviewer and see if he will post to this thread any additional info. The description of the score in the review really has me interested!

I wrote that review of Mont Alto's release of The General (*shameless plug* as well as Silent DVD </shameless plug>) and I really like it. I haven't seen the MK2 or French version, but I do own a PD Cheapie (Alpha?), the Image, and the Kino discs and Mont Alto is my favorite.

As someone noted, the score is a matter of personal taste, but I enjoy Alto's a lot. It's perky in places, dramatic in others, and does a good job of accenting the film without overpowering it. The print they use is the same one that was used for the Image transfer and the two discs look identical.

This disc is only available through Mont Alto's web sight. As I understand it not mass marketing it was a concession they made to be able to use the Film Preservation Associates restoration. Mont Alto does a lot of live performances where they accompany silent films, and though they've come up with scores to many Keaton films, none of them were available on DVD. They printed this up in order to show potential clients what their Keaton scores sound like and to give fans of their work a chance to own one of their Keaton works.

As to the question about an original score, no there wasn't one for The General. There were very few films that had scores written for them in the silent days, and those that did were rarely played with the films. The scores were most often only heard at the premier or in big New York theaters. When the movie opened in Story City Iowa, the piano player there would most often improvise or compile a score. (Less than 1/3 of all theaters had orchestras, and those would only play the evening shows. Also, since the films ran continuously, they would take breaks in the middle of a movie in which case a pianist or organ player would take over.)

Most theaters had a collection of sheet music arranged by theme. The piano player (or orchestra leader in a large theater in a big city) would go through and pick music that would match the scenes based on a "cue sheet" that was sent ahead of the film. This sheet would give visual cues when to start a particular type of music and make some suggestions. These were almost always written by a musical director at the studio with little or no input from the director.

Okay, I seem to have digressed from my original theme.....sorry. To sum up, if I had to have one version of The General, I'd buy the Mont Alto disc.

Thanks very much for that explanation, John. I'm still pretty ignorant when it comes to silent-era filmmaking, so that was very informative and much appreciated!

I think you've sold me on the Mont Alto DVD. It sounds like the best combination of solid visual quality and a great score that is more authentic to the era than the other options.