I have a question regarding the Criterion Collection, and BluRay/HD (I haven't kept up with the whole format war, so I'm not sure which they're going with). Does anybody know: will they start the collection over again? That is, will there be new spine numbers for the new format? I assume they'll re-release a lot, if not all of their titles. Say Rushmore gets re-released first...will that then be number 1, or will it keep it's spine number, and Grand Illusion will be number one whenever it gets it's re-release however long thereafter?

-JP

Interesting question. I think it's too early to say what they'll do, but if I were Criterion I'd start the collection over, just like they did with the transition from laserdisc to dvd.

How did they do the Laser Disc? Did they number them? I would think they would rethink some of their choices so dup'ing the numbers may not be wise. They may not get the same rights over again which prevents them from re-releasing some of their earlier OOPs.

Well, the spine numbers worked for selling dvds so I'm sure they will start over with them again. I don't see much of any pattern regarding the numbers now so who knows how they will do it in the future.

Criterion has a lot of films mastered in HD and ready to go so I would assume they will begin throwing them out as soon as they can afford to. That would be better than losing the rights to a film they have already mastered in HD before they can release it.

I ask simply because I'm not sure if they'll consider the HD/DVD's a mere rerelease of their current DVD titles (comparable to "M," or "Charade," and so forth). If they do consider it all the same catelogue (technically still "DVD," even if souped up with HD technology), I assume they'd keep the same spine numbers. However, if they view the next format as entirely separate from DVD, I wouldn't put it past them to start the catelogue from scratch.

It's just something that crossed my mind earlier. We shall see. Personally, I'm not sure which I'd prefer. It'd be nice for my old Criterions (which I doubt I'll double-dip on in most instances) to remain a part of the most up-to-date collection, so that part of me wants them to keep going from spine number 450 or wherever they are when this new format hits. The other part of me, the logical, completist part, wouldn't mind them calling an end to the collection with the new format, since I'd then have a finite collection to attempt to build, as opposed to one that grows further and further out of my reach on every Tuesday.

To make this thread a bit more useful since it's all just speculation at this point: which would you prefer? Keep the collection going, or start fresh from spine #1?

-JP

I'm sure they'll start over. They're a business, and they'll make more money that way. Also, if/when they release on a new format, they aren't going to be releasing the same movies in the same order, so no reason to keep the same numbers in a totally new format.

They numbered the laserdiscs, and up until recently, the number of laserdiscs were higher. Some movies released on laserdisc were never released on Criterion DVDs.

I think they should just start over from spine #1 but probably shouldn't rerelease anything unless its visually important.

I'd prefer them to keep going -- new titles in the new format get a new Spine # whereas reissues of existing catalog titles in the new format get the same number (eg, if they put out "Seven Samurai" in HDDVD/Blu-Ray it would be #2).

The transition from Laserdiscs to DVD is going to be completely different from the transition from DVD to HDDVD/Blu-Ray from a market perspective.

-- Jim

I'd prefer them to start over, and it really makes the most sense. Otherwise they would have gaps in the HD collection for the lapsed rights titles.

They have to start over. There will be movies currently on DVD that will NEVER been on Blu-ray in their Criterion form...unless Criterion owns exclusive rights to them.

^

I might be a little selfish here, but if they start over with the numbering and reissue a title with a different spine #, it's going to bother those of us who are working on completing the entire regular DVD collection. Let's say Armageddon for an example, Criterion puts it out as HD/BluRay -- and they make it spine #4. Now I buy that, do I have any reason to keep a copy of spine #40 Armageddon DVD? No. But now I've got a hole in my shelf between Tokyo Drifter and Henry V and the OCD side of me is not happy about that.

Honestly, is anyone going to shelve their HD/Blu-Ray discs separately from their DVDs? I'd imagine most people will take whatever scheme they've developed and intermingle the titles. The mentality here is that this is an "upgrade" of the DVD format -- not something completely different from it (a la laserdisc and VHS). The cases are probably going to be about the same, the discs are going to look the same -- and I'd imagine you'll see players that are backwards compatible with DVD once whichever format wins goes mainstream.

It just makes more sense to "press on" rather than starting fresh to me -- as a consumer who has thrown thousands of dollars Criterion's way over the years that's my input. At the end of the day that's really what's going to make the decision for Criterion -- what makes more sense for their customers, which will in turn help maximize their profits.

-- Jim

I think they might release them in both formats, SD and HD.

It is sad that a number on the side of the cover is what helps maxamize their profits. Regardless, we all know it is working great for them.

In the same sense that you mention they should keep going with the spine numbers for BR, wouldn't that irk current loyal customers who don't want to upgrade to HD?

As a big Criterion collector here are my 2 cents for what it's worth. If and a big "IF" HD-DVD/Blu-Ray catches on I'm sure Criterion will jump on the bandwagon. I don't think Criterion will be one of the pioneers of the new format. Second, I doubt it will make Criterion DVDs any less important to the fans as I'm sure many many movies will not be ported over.

If they changed it for DVD from Laserdisc, there's no reason to think they WOULDN'T change it from DVD to Blu-ray.

As far as if I will store BR with my DVD's, who knows? Until I see a finished product, I have no idea if i will or not. I have no idea what the cases will look like. Obviously they'll need to do something that will differentiate it so I'm assuming it won't look exactly the same. Either way, I can't wait to dump regular DVD for HD.

Exactly.

-JP

Exactly.

This is exactly like the LD/DVD situation... they were still releasing Laserdiscs when they put out DVDs. And they started over with the numbers for DVD.

They'll do the same thing with Blu-ray. Different format, different spine #s. One really shouldn't have anything to do with the other.


And, honestly, if someone is enough of a completist to worry about a missing spine # in their DVD collection, they wouldn't upgrade the DVD in the first place, would they? Or at the very least they'd keep both the Blu-ray and DVD versions, so as to not interrupt the beautiful numbers running down their shelves.

I go with starting over. They did it for the transition from LD to DVD. I'm sure there were people who had a complete LD collection on laserdisc, and also bought the reissues on DVD. It's really not that big of a deal, besides like was said, it does give you finite goal for completing a DVD collection.

I'm not really that excited about Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Honestly, the only movies that will be able to take advantage of HD will be post 2000 releases. I just can't see myself getting excited about an HD transfer of a movie from the 60s. I don't even see how you can increase the image clarity on an older analog source.

Oh well, we'll see.

It isn't exactly the same thing. In all likelihood, you will still be able to play DVD's on a HDDVD machine. I never had any success playing a LD in my DVD player They might go the CLV/CAV route and use a single number with a subletter like 45A (DVD) and 45B (HDDVD) but I hope not.

I personally hope they don't start renumbering from 1 again.

I can assure you that if the film master is in good condition you will notice a huge difference.

That is kind of nice. For the fun of it, I'm working on a complete LD collection. I've picked up close to 40 titles over the last two years mainly concentrating on titles with exclusive content like commentaries, scripts and other extras.

I did:

http://www.oz.net/blam/LaserDisc/DVL-700.htm


The point is that they are two entirely different formats. To reverse your analogy, you won't be able to play a Blu-ray disc on your current DVD player. Different format.

When Criterion embraces the new format (which, judging from their DVD releases, will be pretty early on), I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that they'll start from #1.

It's been pointed out, but please tell me you're joking? DVD has barely scratched the surface of the depth and detail of film.

I keep seeing this quote everywhere... can you please explain it to me?

What magically happened in the past 5 years to make movies HD-ready? High Definition, while a giant leap forward in the TV realm, is still lower resolution than film. Properly mastered, you'll see a huge difference in just about all movies... even ones made decades ago.