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Format War is a Go

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Format War is a Go

Old 08-24-05, 09:23 PM
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I will select the cheapest and HD-DVD is confirmed to be more cheaper to make and with my normal TV and with HD TV or Plasma, the picture is promised to be good.So since Sony and Panasonic decided to make thier own format and start a war with Toshiba,I will not buy any of them anytime soon,maybe 3 years after they come up with the bug free products
Old 08-24-05, 09:37 PM
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Is it really any surprise here that a format war is looming? I am currently pretty happy with my home theater, though I do appreciate HDTV and will embrace the technology beyond my big screen someday. As long as future HD dvd players are backwards compatible, I'll watch this battle from the sidelines by holding onto my wallet.
Old 08-25-05, 12:23 AM
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Will wait until the dusk are settled before deciding so meanwhile sit back, relax and
enjoy and let 'em kill each other !
Old 08-25-05, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden_73
Yeah me too. I see HD-DVD/Blueray being like Laserdisc, more for movie aficionado
I actually think whichever format ends up winning will become the norm and supplant standard DVD eventually (so long as they don't renege on the promise that they will be backwards compatible). However, I'm not biting for at least a few years to avoid being raked over the coals. I won't make the switch-over until:

1. There is one single universal disc format.
2. Prices of players have become affordable.
3. Players have been through enough production runs to correct initial bugs.
4. It's obvious no new important advancements to the technology are eminent (like the arrival of progressive scan DVD players in the first few years of DVD).
5. There are enough titles available that I want containing extras equaling or bettering their standard DVD counterparts. I'm not buying a bunch of bare-bones HD-DVD's when there are special edition SD-DVD's floating around (that only means the studios are deliberately withholding extras in order to boost HD-DVD sales with pre-planned double-dips - No thanks!).
Old 08-25-05, 01:04 AM
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I like the Toshiba guy's contention that consumers prefer having less space on the disc. Like that's a benefit rather than a limitation.

I will select the cheapest and HD-DVD is confirmed to be more cheaper to make and with my normal TV and with HD TV or Plasma, the picture is promised to be good

HD-DVD is currently cheaper to manufacture, but that doesn't mean the hardware or the discs will be cheaper for the consumer.
Old 08-25-05, 02:48 AM
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just look at psp, the advertisments on tv, print and online have new releases on dvd and (umd)psp, no more dvd and video cassette, and this is with the lower than expected sales of the psp, sony's ps3 might not have the expected sales, but they will have blu-ray players out there and the movie industry will react the same way as they did with the psp (umd)format
Old 08-25-05, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
Impossible to say which is a superior forumat until you have the actual format to look at. At this point, both BR and HD are "paper-ware" (yes I know that there have been BD drives in Japan, yadda yadda but they are not the final BD-ROM spec).

I also don;t think PS3 will be the huge factor that many make it out to be. IMO, if it does clock in at $450-500 as reported. If XBox360 comes out six months ahead and is priced $150 lower than PS3, I think they can take the "crown" from Sony.

There is no way the PS3 will be priced $150 more than the XBOX2. Sony would rather lose money on the console and make it back on licensing fees and game sales. Add the Blu-Ray marketshare issue and I think the PS3 will be priced lower than the XBOX2 or the same no way higher.
Old 08-25-05, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gcribbs
There is no way the PS3 will be priced $150 more than the XBOX2. Sony would rather lose money on the console and make it back on licensing fees and game sales. Add the Blu-Ray marketshare issue and I think the PS3 will be priced lower than the XBOX2 or the same no way higher.
That is not what "insiders" are saying. Word is that they will be losing money at $450. If stand alone players are going to run $1K, I can see this being true. Ket Kuturagi said himself the console will be "expensive" and something people will be willing to work extra hours to obtain. I have not read anywhere that it will be cheaper then XBox360. In fact, I have heard that MS's strategy is to do a SRP drop the week before PS3 launches. Discounting the Sony faithful, most people will go "Hmm...XB $250 or PS3 $450. I can get an XB with FOUR games for the price of the PS3." What would you choose?

Other rumors abound about delays, underpowered hardware (for both units) and the omition of the BD drive from the unit to cut costs. They have already cut the wireless router function from the PS3.

I do agree though that any PS3 in people's hands increases the number of BD players. I just don't think the PS3 will be the success the PS2 was, and therefore the impact on total BD drives will be lessened.
Old 08-26-05, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by zombiezilla
I'll be doing the same thing I did when DVDs came out, and took out VHS. I'll sit on the sidelines, picking the winner long after the battle is over, and the winner has a huge stable of titles that I want/need.

However, I get the feeling that the original contender (basic DVD) will win this one....
Amazingly enough this could easily happen. If they are hellbent on standard DVDs going away the best way to ensure that is take 'em off the shelves as they did in the the days when vinyl was replaced by CD. I don't see it happening because DVD makes money for the industry in a way they've never seen before. Are they willing to take the risk of killing the golden egg laying goose to force everyone's hand into buying HD discs? Maybe....but not till there's long since been a winner, cheap hardware and reasonable title prices.
Old 08-26-05, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by diespine
just look at psp, the advertisments on tv, print and online have new releases on dvd and (umd)psp, no more dvd and video cassette, and this is with the lower than expected sales of the psp, sony's ps3 might not have the expected sales, but they will have blu-ray players out there and the movie industry will react the same way as they did with the psp (umd)format
I'm thinking about that too. Most people will be sitting out during the format war, but many will technically side with Blu-ray by buying a PS3. Sure, they will be buying it for gaming, but at the same time, Sony will end up having a "trojan horse" installed base of Blu-Ray players. Movies on UMD were considered a secondary thing for PSP, but they have been selling considerably better than the studios expected, and look at how many titles are coming out in that format now (with more studios hopping on board). The same thing could very well happen with PS3. If the Xbox 360 included HD-DVD, it would be trickier to predict, but it won't. So with the looming format war, consumer confusion and/or reluctance to possibly choose the "losing" format, and the PS3 coming, I think that Sony just might win by default (but "win" is a relative term, because I also believe that standard DVDs will continue to predominate for a long time still).
Old 08-26-05, 01:59 PM
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I'm inclined to think Blu-Ray will win out since it is the technically superior format and since most of its "issues" can be worked out eventually (whereas HD-DVD's limitations are inherent). Then again, that was true of Beta also...
Old 08-26-05, 02:34 PM
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So silly of them to rush into it like this without settling the issues. HD discs won't take off the way DVD did because the vast majority of people don't have HD TV's! DVD made use of the t.v.'s that everyone had, but nobody without an HDTV is going to waste their money on a video quality they can't see. My point is they could have taken a couple more years to hash out an agreement because it'll be several more years before most people have HDTV's. If I could remotely afford an HDTV right now I'd love to have one, but that's no time soon, and I have invested way too much money and time into my DVD collection to think about switching to a new format. Anyway, didn't I blow your mind this time? Didn't I?

So, I'm with you all that are sitting this one out and laughing.
Old 08-27-05, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by lamphorn
If I could remotely afford an HDTV right now I'd love to have one, but that's no time soon
Could be worse. You could have dropped $6,000 on a 60" Sony HDTV a few years ago only to have them yank the carpet out from under you by insisting their HD discs will only be compatible with an input that only the newer model TV's have. Hey, what's $6000 though, right?
Old 08-27-05, 09:06 AM
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I honestly don't understand why the hardware manufacturers can't just standardize on a universal player that can play back both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, in addition to standard DVD. That'll make a format war completely moot. Because the Film Studios can release their movies in either standard DVD, Blu-Ray, or HD-DVD, and consumers can buy any movie and be confident that their disc players can play the title back. The discs are all the same diameter, and the thickness issue can be dealt with too, so universal hardware shouldn't be much of a technical challenge.

It's a win-win situation with universal players as the only standard, while a format war with incompatible players and discs is lose-lose all around.

Last edited by dhmac; 08-27-05 at 09:10 AM.
Old 08-27-05, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dhmac
I honestly don't understand why the hardware manufacturers can't just standardize on a universal player that can play back both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, in addition to standard DVD.
You really don't understand? It's pretty simple. It's about licensing fees (of the technology) and corporate bragging rights. Why do you think that neither side has caved in and simply accepted the other format?

Originally Posted by dhmac
That'll make a format war completely moot. Because the Film Studios can release their movies in either standard DVD, Blu-Ray, or HD-DVD, and consumers can buy any movie and be confident that their disc players can play the title back. The discs are all the same diameter, and the thickness issue can be dealt with too, so universal hardware shouldn't be much of a technical challenge.

It's a win-win situation with universal players as the only standard, while a format war with incompatible players and discs is lose-lose all around.
Your "solution" fails to answer a very basic question....

"Why should there be two formats?"
Old 08-27-05, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by cultshock
I'm thinking about that too. Most people will be sitting out during the format war, but many will technically side with Blu-ray by buying a PS3. Sure, they will be buying it for gaming, but at the same time, Sony will end up having a "trojan horse" installed base of Blu-Ray players. Movies on UMD were considered a secondary thing for PSP, but they have been selling considerably better than the studios expected, and look at how many titles are coming out in that format now (with more studios hopping on board). The same thing could very well happen with PS3. If the Xbox 360 included HD-DVD, it would be trickier to predict, but it won't. So with the looming format war, consumer confusion and/or reluctance to possibly choose the "losing" format, and the PS3 coming, I think that Sony just might win by default (but "win" is a relative term, because I also believe that standard DVDs will continue to predominate for a long time still).
I have had an EBox for about a year now, played many games on it and have watched a few movies also.

But, I will not buy another Game Box without HD "DVD" built in. So, it looks like PS3 will be my next Game Box/DVD Player.

I already have an HDTV with a DVI, waiting for HD "DVD" to be released.
Old 08-28-05, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by sracer
You really don't understand? It's pretty simple. It's about licensing fees (of the technology) and corporate bragging rights. Why do you think that neither side has caved in and simply accepted the other format?


Your "solution" fails to answer a very basic question....

"Why should there be two formats?"
I hope two formats don't find their way to the marketplace.

That being said, I'm also glad that two formats have been fighting it out behind the scenes for the last 2-3 years. Thankfully both sides have improved many things because of this competition. (added Blue Laser/Lossless Audio/Better Codecs/More Storage Space, ect ....)
Old 08-28-05, 09:41 AM
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I'm sure it will only be a few years before dual-format players hit the market. I don't know about a lot of the big boys since they're committed to a particular format and have a lot vested in that, but I bet you'll start to see both high-end machines from some of the smaller videophile tech companies and low-end ones like Apex. That's exactly what happened with SACD and DVD-A.
Old 08-28-05, 09:53 AM
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I am just going to stick with good 'ol DVD's. Because 15-20 years down the road, something better will come down the road then HD-DVD, and Blu-Ray. I think DVD is great quality and will still be around in 20-30 years. Cheap too!
Old 08-28-05, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by sracer
You really don't understand? It's pretty simple. It's about licensing fees (of the technology) and corporate bragging rights. Why do you think that neither side has caved in and simply accepted the other format?

Your "solution" fails to answer a very basic question....

"Why should there be two formats?"
I didn't say there should be two HD formats, I'm just accepting the fact that there are two HD formats. And neither side is about to drop its own format, so we are stuck with them both. (Anyone who thinks one side is going to drop its format is being completely unrealistic.)

So instead of letting this play out as a format war in which both sides possibly lose, why not resolve it on the hardware side and set guidelines for all players to play back both HD formats.

This is a universal-format solution that already works for DVD-Audio and SACD, DVD+R and DVD-R. But both took years for universal players to show up, which definitely hurt DVD-Audio and SACD in the market. So, instead, if universal HD players were defined as the standard before these hit the market, then a format war would not be a real issue and the growth of the market won't be stunted right out-of-the-gate.
Old 08-28-05, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
That is not what "insiders" are saying. Word is that they will be losing money at $450.
It's still very much a wait and see issue. Sony want's to keep their console lead, drive MS out of the industry and jump start blu-ray in homes to win the format war. They may be willing to lose a lot on each console. They can make it up pretty easily with first party game sales as they have a ton of hit game series from their in house studios.

Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
Discounting the Sony faithful, most people will go "Hmm...XB $250 or PS3 $450. I can get an XB with FOUR games for the price of the PS3." What would you choose?
You can't discount the faithful though. Look at the iPods, they have a huge lead in market share when they cost much more than players from Creative, Dell etc. that do the exact same thing just as well.

Sony has a huge legion of playstation faithful. And to less serioius gamers playstation=video games. When I was little you'd here kids say "lets go play Nintendo." Now they say "lets go play playstation."

Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
I just don't think the PS3 will be the success the PS2 was, and therefore the impact on total BD drives will be lessened.
If there's anything I've learned in my 20 years of console gaming it's that for the industry leader to lose their lead they have to screw up immensely.

Atari let the market get flooded with worthless games and Nintendo took over. Nintendo ruled for more than a decade, then they broke a partnership with sony for a CD add on for the SNES and then decided to make the N64 a cart system. Those opened the door for the playstation and the rest is history.

As long as Sony does nothing stupid (meaning they launch within 6 months to a year of the 360 and launch at $399 or below) the PS3 will be just a successful as the PS2 if not moreso.
Old 08-28-05, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by tofferman
Is it really any surprise here that a format war is looming? I am currently pretty happy with my home theater, though I do appreciate HDTV and will embrace the technology beyond my big screen someday. As long as future HD dvd players are backwards compatible, I'll watch this battle from the sidelines by holding onto my wallet.
Right there with you, 3-5 years is my timeframe for an upgrade.
Old 08-28-05, 10:37 AM
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There might be a vocal minority on this board (and a majority on the more home theater forums) but I really don't think the majority of the American public will shell out big bucks for Blue Ray or HD players. Most of them can't take advantage of it with their current TVs and will balk at spending hundreds of dollars for players where DVD players are like $50.

Maybe in about 5 years, this new format will gain traction, but until then, the public will most likely ignore it.

So invest in these new technologies at your own peril.
Old 08-28-05, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by chanster
Maybe in about 5 years, this new format will gain traction, but until then, the public will most likely ignore it.
I agree totally, except I don't think the new format will gain traction beyond niche market status.

For Joe Six Pack DVDs will look fine even down the road when he finally gets an HD-DVD. He will thus still be unlikely to spend money on an new HD format DVD player and think about rebuying movies etc.

I see the new format being nothing like a marinally more successful Laserdisc being successful only among home theater buffs and movie afficionados.
Old 08-28-05, 11:11 AM
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Waiting till the dust settles for me.

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