New releases of old movies with improved audio, video and some new extras - fine.

A new version of a movie that just came out on DVD a month ago - screw that!

I'm just the opposite. I almost always avoid buying bare-bone releases, especially if I suspect the film is worthy of a better treatment that it will one-day receive. I have patience in the regard. The improved transfers, commentary and extra features are part of the appeal of DVDs, IMHO. As a result, I find that I rarely double-dip and usually end up with the best value in the end. I did get snookered early on into buying a few non-anamorphic releases (Criterion's $60 "Brazil" is a notable, sore example) when the rest of the package was so appealing. Never even thought to verify that feature of a DVD until it was too late.

This strikes me as the most newsworthy item of all. It inspires two obvious questions: why are there so many special editions, if the return from them is so meager? And will the studios ultimately abandon the practice -- or segregate it into a high-priced, high-margin collector's market -- if there's so little profit in it at "popular prices?"

RichC

Those are extreme examples. 'Lemony Snicket' is primarily selling to kids, who don't care about extras. 'Pirates of the Carribean' put out an extra disc which was *totally* just trying to boost sales, but had nothing interesting on it, and did so at a point when everybody who wanted it had already bought it. And 'Gothika' sucked. It (like 'Underworld') was a joke when it was announced for a double-dip.

Is anybody surprised that very few people are buying those? I wonder how the 'Spider-Man' deluxe edition did, since that, like 'Pirates', added little to the package.

Got a link for them, rasalas?

Any ideas what these new Fox SE did this week?

Good article, Randy.

Yeah, two bad we only have those two options.

I think we need to split Special Editions into 2 categories and analyze their sales separately: the immediate double-dip that comes out just a few months after the initial version, and the cleaned-up SE that comes out years later and decidedly improves upon a previously inferior product.

I expect that the SE of Gone With The Wind sold a lot better than the SE for Underworld or I, Robot.

same here

Good thread here. Obviously I agree that the three most recent double dips from Fox are pretty damn shameless.

But I'm as guilty as anyone. If The Day After Tomorrow, Man on Fire, or I, Robot were movies that I really liked a whole lot, you can bet your subwoofer that the original "dip" would have been listed on eBay the day I saw the Fox press release.

I actually do it all the time. Just sold my Blues Brothers DVD for about 29 bucks on eBay. I get the extra coin because that DVD is out of print, and I won't miss it because that "extended" edition got on my last nerve. The upcoming Blues Brothers DVD will have the theatrical cut, and (I'm willing to bet) all those extra sequences where they belong: in the "deleted scenes" bin. Now if only I can get Uni to release the original theatrical cut of 1941.

And Stripes is another good example. If you're going to double dip on a title, please give the consumer something worth buying. Those who own the old Stripes DVD can safely sell it and get 5-7 bucks to put toward the new DVD. (The upcoming DVD offers both the theatrical cut and the "extended" version.) Plus there's a new commentary and an hour-long featurette. I doubt that many fans of this movie will be complaining about this type of double dip.

Oh, and regarding Tears of the Sun: THIS is one of the most shameless types of double dippage: the old deleted scenes are re-inserted back into the movie, three of the old supplements are ported over, and several others are dropped entirely. The only "new" thing you're getting on the Extended DVD are the old deleted scenes as part of the movie.

Another recent one that irked me a little was the Dogtown and Z-Boys SE. It's the exact same DVD as before, only it has a few new featurettes on Lords of Dogtown. Pure marketing. But it does come with a free ticket for the flick, so that helps soothe the sting just a little if it's a movie you realllllly like.

So yeah, in theory I hate the double dip. But stay outta my way when the Unrated Director's Cut of Saw hits the shelves.

Exactly. Which was the point I was going to make. It should no longer be a surprise to anybody. When I saw Man on Fire with hardly anything on the disc outside the movie, I did not know there would be a SE later on, but I bet on it, and I did not buy it at the time. If it's a movie that makes enough money, or has an influential director behind it that is known for their past SE releases, and you get a bare bones version at first, I see you have a few choices. Either you can buy it as is if you don't care about the eventual SE (and, to be honest, I hardly go back to watch bonus features a second time, but it is nice seeing them when they are available on a movie I really like, even if I only watch them once). Or you can buy it at such a low price you can justify buying the double dip, as you know Target or some place will have it for ten bucks soon enough, and you can sell the other copy or give it to somebody as a gift, or you can just wait. Wait. I guess that's a word that is lost on our on-demand society.

I prefer to wait. I know that the main reason studios rush out bare bones DVDs (or DVDs with bonus features that are basically just commercials for the movie and other movies they sell) is because they want to tap into the rental market. Think about it. Blockbuster wanted there to be a rental window on DVDs like they had on VHS, where the rental would come out first and you'd have to wait six months to buy the tape in retail. They failed in getting that, but they did get the studios to rush out releases faster, and whenever you see a big movie rushed to DVD, you know you're basically getting a rental worthy copy. If you are a collector, that is not what you want. Wait six months or so and get the SE that comes out. Even if the studio doesn't disclose that information right away, it's a given in this day and age that is what you will have to do.

So what if you have to wait? Most of us here have unwatched DVDs anyway. Catch up on your unwatched DVDs while you wait for the better release a few months down the road.

I don't blame studios for doing this at all. The rental chains want their rental product faster, and the collectors want their special editions with all the bells and whistles, and studios also see millions of people getting into DVD for the first time. While you may have had your player since 1997, millions more just got theirs, and they don't want to spend a lot of money to get your out of print editions on ebay, so the studios will put out new editions for new customers. I don't see a problem. And you have a choice, get rid of your out of print edition and upgrade, if the new edition is better, but that is not always the case, or suck it up and be happy with what you have.

Yeah, but I gotta believe that the biggest factor in the higher sales for the LOTR EE versions is the extra footage seemlessly integrated into the movie. Even given the overwhelming popularity of these films, if they had just been the same exact theatrical release but with 2 more discs of extras then that 34% would be more like 10%.

Randy, that was a very good article. As you've noted, not much new for us diehard forum readers who keep up on this stuff, but good information to educate the general consumer who cares.

It's funny, when Spider-Man 2 was close to release the word came down that they were already working on a Special Edition that would have slightly extended fight scenes. As hard as it was for me (being a huge lifelong Spider-Man fan), I held off on the initial release, waiting to see how long it would take for the SuperSE to come out. As it still hasn't been announced (to my knowledge), I still get the urge to break down and buy the current edition - but I'm still holding out.

Worst case scenario? The SuperSe with extended footage never comes out and I buy the current edition a year or two from now after a price drop. I can live with that.

I love some of the Special Editions that come out - they blow the original versions away, but I think that the studios should wait at least a year from the release of the original DVD before putting out a Special Edition. (Or release both on the same day...)

This was true for me also. I passed on it when it was initally released and only picked it up this week because:

• It was improved
• It cost less than the initial release
• It had a Fantastic Four movie ticket within

Home Media Research is simply the (newly renamed) research arm of the company that owns the Hollywood Reporter. In fact, my commissioning the research for my article inspired them to write their own article on the same idea: http://www.hive4media.com/index.cfm?sec_id=2 , but from more of an industry perspective and more wide-ranging. How about that? They haven't posted the info I commissioned from them, though. I might post that later. It's really not that helpful. There's no trend, just varying numbers for different SEs that qualified for my write-up.

No, I haven't seen anything yet. Video Business did not post this week's DVD sales chart. But none of the three releases ranked highly at Amazon, so I'd be surprised if they cracked the VB top 20.

Yes, you're right. The EE also sold well because New Line and Peter Jackson made sure not to duplicate any material (if you included the theatrical and EE cuts as not being the same) between the two releases. So fans could buy both and essentially create a six-disc set. It also helped that the three movies were HUGE box-office hits, of course.

Thanks--and thanks to everyone who read the article, whether you agreed with it or liked it. This discussion is great.

I spend time on this board and I was not aware of the probability of the double-dip on I Robot and DAT. I bought both.

If you guys wanna see double-dipping on steroids, go to a video game store.

If you guys wanna see double-dipping on steroids, go to a video game store.

If you guys wanna see double-dipping on steroids, go to a video game store.

Is it as bad as triple-dipping on posts?

That's the way you become a DVD Talk Legend.

My 99% bare bones number may be somewhat exaggerated, but I buy all DVD's I watch (and I watch a lot of movies --probably about 15-20 a week): I don't rent any. Most new releases (of recent movies) I buy used. When it comes to movies that are "canonical" I do the opposite, and will most always choose an edition with commentary over a bare bones realease. I will almost always buy the Criterion edition over any other edition of the same film. But these kinds of films are a very small part of the market.

My only complaint with the article is that it doesn't tell us that Bullitt isn't sold separately (right?), but only in the McQueen boxset.
Anyway, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Anchor Bay. They are prime targets for this.
I can understand to some degree having a bare-bones and an SE for the more discerning fan, but again, like Pirates, it was absolute rubbish. For me, the most important thing is the film, so if the presentation is improved, like the 20th anniv of Scarface, it's worth it to me. Of course, special features with some SUBSTANCE help, too.