Some Cable TV DVD a rip-off?
 

First these cable networks overcharge for as few as 14 episodes and now we are expected to swallow 12 episodes of Six Feet Under for $100! No way! This is ridiculous the average number of episodes in a typical TV season is approximately 22. That people are willing to buy these faux seasons on DVD at such a high price will only encourage HBO, Showtime...

Yeah, see, Six Feet Under episodes are an hour long. Next question.

Yes, so are Star Trek TOS episodes. Your point?

My point is that there's nothing "faux-season" about it. 12 hour long episodes with no commercial breaks beats out the running time of 90% of the TV season boxes out there. Is $100 pricey? Absolutely. Is the fact that there are only 12 episodes a non-issue? Absolutely.

Point is that these cable networks don't have the luxuary of having a paid advertisment system on their chanels to balance out the cost of production and the cost of subscription is no where near the amount that is needed to produce these original content shows. So it's the consumer at the end of the dvd sales that needs to pay a little extra.

No one is forcing you to buy so I don't see why folks complain. It's a choice.

It's absolutely faux! Smallville, Dead Zone and the first two seasons of QAF all sport more than 20 episodes! However, QAF eventually suffered from Showtime's greed. To say that these "pay" channels are justified in charging $100 or more for as few as 12 episodes is idiotic.

Wake-up people! It is my money and I will not consume these faux seasons. To the extent that you and others purchase you will suffer. I bet 10 or 9 episode seasons will eventually appear. Then what will you say?

I think it's a show by show basis... Entourage seems reasonable at 39.98 retail.

Personally, I think outside of most HBO shows, Nip/Tuck is the most overpriced, average of $60.

Maybe it's just me, I think over $40 is too much for TV sets.

I'll say quit whining and don't buy it then. BBC The Office seasons are 6 episodes.

Criticism is now whining!?!
 

Oh and maybe we can call 2 or 3 episodes a season? Wow! The producers of The Twilight Zone (1950s) could make a killing with that attitude.

I would like to own a house. I can't afford a house. Even if I could, it would only be in certain cities and certain parts of town.

Do you have a problem with Criterion prices? They're certainly expensive. But people generally seem to be OK with that because of the work Criterion puts into restoring the print and including interesting extras.

The production value of HBO series' is incredibly high compared to most television shows. How much do you think they spent making an episode of Star Trek? How much making an epsiode of The Sopranos or Six Feet Under?

12 episodes x 1 hour = 12 hours / 2 hours (average movie) = 6 movies
$100 / 6 = $16.66 per.

Is that outrageous price gouging?

Buy it, don't buy it, rent it. Is a season of The Sopranos worth more or less than a season of Enterprise?

Do you rank your favorite shows according to running time?

If a two hour movie on DVD lists for $20 should a three hour movie list for $30?

If a movie that cost $20 million to produce lists for $20 on DVD, should a movie that cost $100 million list for $100?

The obvious point is that "the worth of a thing is the price it will bring." Market value is set by whether people are willing to pay the asking price for something. These are luxury items. Nobody is required to buy them.

RichC

why you still bitching about it? It's very simple. If you do not like it, do not buy. If enough people feel the same way as you do and act upon it they will get the message. Remember when Twilight Zone and Star Trek sold the episodes in little 3 episode disc? A season set is much better.

Production cost and quality do count in this. Should they be lower? Anything could be lower. But if folks are still willing to pay for it, the price will remain the same. simple as that.

I know that episodes of Star Trek TNG averaged over $1,000,000 per episode. Furthermore, I didn't have to pay $40 - $60 for premium cable to view that show and it's now available on DVD at a reasonable price considering the number of episodes per season.

Episodes of TNG may have been that much, but they also had plenty of cost balance with paid advertisment on the network it was shown. Add to that syndication in that the production company can make money by selling it to other networks.

HBO shows are really only HBO shows ever. No syndication selling option and no paid ads make it cost more.

When? In the Six Feet Under thread - that was a comment. This is intended to spur intelligent discussion and thought among the forum members!

Finally a well reasoned argument. However, Sex and the City is syndicated!

Well I can at least give you a reason. Prices are set with demand in mind. Will "The Wire" sell as many sets as CSI or 24? No way. Bottom line is that even Star Trek and XFiles are niche releases. They are priced accordingly, which is why Friends goes for $30 (plus the fact that it's only 20 odd 22 minute episodes as opposed to full hour length ones).

After SEVEN years!!

With that I can agree. However, QAF Season One at 20 some odd episodes can be found for $99 if you look around. QAF Season 4 at 14 some odd episodes is on sale most places for $80. Same demand, far fewer episodes and only a very slight "sale" price reduction. Explain that! I will. It's called greed and price inflation. Produce fewer episodes, charge nearly the same price as a real season and make a "killing" in profits. It's not right.

and it's not HBO. Showtime episodes have gone down a great deal and Josh makes a great point. it's a niche market and must be priced accordingly. You can ask the same about Anime. Which shares the answer. Not many people will buy it so the price needs to get bumped up a little to balance out all those who aren't going to buy it.

When you look at it, Showtime's shows are lower in price then HBO. The L word is around 50. Bullshit is around 30. it all depends on how marketable the show is.

What is QAF by the way?

Besides, doesn't anyone here like a show enough to want at least 20 episodes. My god, when did we come to expect so little?

QAF is Queer as Folk, a gay themed drama on Showtime.

Honestly my friend, I'd rather shows like Nip Tuck, The Shield, Sopranos, Oz, etc. where I get 13 great episodes instead of 22 decent ones. I'm sure Jack is with me on that, right brother? :)

Of course I too would prefer a smaller number of high quality shows in a season over a large number of mediocre episodes. However, this isn't usually the case. The shows we've been discussing are consistently well written and could easily contain 20 thought-provoking episodes per season.

whaaaaat? :whofart: I don't think they are thinking of the DVD price raising when producing the season. They factor in how much budget they have, how much time they have for their run and how much of a story to tell.

"a real season" This sort of logic doesn't apply to those networks because they don't follow the traditional season guide that other networks follow.

Much like Shield. it usually has about 13-15 episodes per season. Is it a rip off that Fox has it for the 50 or so that it charges? It's all depending on the cost of production the budget and other factors of future reselling or packaging to others. A lot of shows have very narrow markets so it can't be sold to anyone else for re-airing and the number of fans out there that will buy the dvd does not equate the amount that it would take to price it much lower.

Just like you can buy shrek 2 for 9.99 and have to pay 20 for garden state. the amount of folks that they will sell shrek 2 to will out number the amount that will buy garden state so they can price it lower.

I'm not arguing price so much as quantity, though price is important. I expect at least 20 quality episodes of any show per season. What's next? Are we going to call lengthy commercials mini TV shows and market 6 of them as a TV season? :)

So... you want to force filler episodes and stretch story arcs instead of getting well paced and good amount of storys in a show?

If the season of the shield is only going to have 13 good episodes, I want them all in top form instead of having the writers create filler episodes to meet some sort of requirement in episode count and pad out another 7 forced episodes which will increase the cost of production and potentially make it so that it doesn't get renewed. That's what you are asking. To make a film less profitable and potentially putting it on the chopping block if it doesn't make its worth with the added filler episodes.

If you guys have a problem with the price of a show, just Netflix it.

Please reread post #25. Thank you. :)

I did, if you don't like the answer then that's your problem

I already said it, you want filler episodes to pad that count to 20 when it's just 13-15? that's on you. If you wont buy something because it's not 20 Quality episodes according to you then that's also your choice and I see no reason why you should be complaining about the price structure or the story structure per season of any given show.

Have you even considered the possibility that the only reason these shows can maintain consistent high quality is BECAUSE they produce fewer episodes? Each episode takes longer to write, longer to rehearse, longer to shoot, longer to edit because they're spending the same amount of time and money to produce 10 or 12 episodes that a typical network series uses to make 22.

RichC

As a member of the DVD community from the very beginning, I have every right to criticize price and quantity when discussing Cable DVD TV season sets. BTW, "quality" means just that, not filler. :)

Irrelevant. These pay cable networks have been aroiund since the 80s, but TV on DVD has only been big for maybe 4-5 years. If this was the case, then how did they survive before DVD? I cant imagine VHS tape sales were that substantial.

The R2 of Six Feet Under (and most HBO shows) are almost half the price of their R1 counter parts. They also come out sooner in R2 - 6'U season 3 has been out in R2 for almost 2 months now.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...9262864-3823240
$70

vs.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...1155540-4137220
minus VAT = 30 pounds = aprox. $55.

What's up with that?

The length that a person has been a "member of the DVD community" is irrelevant. Every person has an equal right to criticize and/or discuss these issues if they so desire.

I think that demand is an important factor. Take two "like" examples...X-Files and 24. Both are hour long network shows with roughly 24 episodes a season. X-Files comes out at $100+ (they since have been reduced) and 24 can be had for at least half the price. The X-Files has had a larger following and has been around longer. There is high demand for this show. The same is true for the Star Trek catalog which Paramount has been using to their advantage for a long time.

The HBO series' like the Sopranos and Six Feet Under are highly regarded (particularly the Sopranos) which creates the demand. That's why I gladly fork over the $60-65 per season for The Sopranos and may take a pass at other shows. Quite frankly, the number of episodes has little to do with it for me. Of course I would rather pay less for a 13 episode season than a 24-26 episode season, but the bottom line is what quality we perceive the show to be and do we feel it's worth the price we pay to own it.

The amount in the quality and the amount put into production have gone up over the years. Showtime's heads have moved away from films and moved towards bringing in film writers and actors which come with a bigger price tag. But in turn, they bring in a better product which can be worth more.

If you want to toss up the cost of a dvd. Lets look five years ago. How much was an average season set? very easily in the 100's. Why? because DVD wasn't in demand at the start of it all. They needed to justify the low sells by the higher price.

Put that forumla to this. These shows aren't the mainstream powerhouses that sell millions of units like most other stuff that is priced lower. So the price has to be a bit more to counter balance the lower amount of units that will be sold.

So was Dream On, The Larry Sanders Show, Mr. Show etc.

But more often than not they are not meant to be syndicated, but they could be if there is enough mass appeal for a non premium network to show it.

Actually Sex and the City ran for 6 seasons (the sixth one was broken up into two different parts) for 6 years: June 1998 to February 2004

First off, anybody who actually pays $100.00 for Six Feet Under or Sopranos are idiots, as you can often find them in the $60.00 range, especially online.

And I would think that the fact that the advertising costs cannot be figured in would be a no brainer, but I guess that was lost on the OP and some others. Also, more than likely you won't see these shows in syndication. Sex and the City got a good deal on TBS, but it will be a while before you see that show on regular TV, if ever.

If you don't subscribe, and you don't want to buy the sets, then rent them. If you really want to see them, you will find a way. I would gladly take a quality season set of any of those shows than three mediocre season sets of network programming.

Incorrect. Not only is "Sex and the City" syndicated, but "The Sopranos" is as well. Not too long ago, A&E bought up rights to "The Sopranos" for $2.5 million dollars an episode, which is actually the highest price ever paid for a syndicated series.

So HBO will have made $187,500,000.00 from syndication of that series alone.

And another thing we have to consider about pay cable series like 6FU and Sopranos is that the DVDs are competing with the pay cable channel.

I'd wager that a number of premium channel subscriptions are from people who want the original programming. The main draw of channels like HBO (which means Home Box Office) at their inception was that they played uncut theatrical movies. At the time, in the late 1970s and early 1980s, that was really the only way to see complete movies without commercial interruption in the comfort of one's home. Now they're competing with home video (both for rental and purchase), so they still need some kind of draw, and original programming is that draw.

If HBO let their original programming be sold at bargain prices, like $40.00 for complete 12 episode seasons of 6FU, Sopranos, Deadwood, and Carnivale, then people would probably start cancelling their subscriptions in favor of buying the cheaper DVDs.