cultshock

They didn't develop LD if thats what you mean. Laserdiscs were developed by Phillips and MCA and later on, Pioneer helped too. (Sony and Phillips did develop the compact disc together though. I guess you could say that format was a bit of a success for Sony )

Josh Z

No, there weren't. Every laserdisc player ever manufactured could play both CAV and CLV discs. These were not separate formats, just separate recording speeds, similar to SP or EP speed on VHS (though without the same severe quality dropoff).

MisterHowie

Thanks for the post - this is good news for those of us who will wait for the format to level out in price and reliability. By the time we're ready to upgrade, there should only be one choice, I hope.

sracer

Oh well, my memory must be going. Because I thought I remembered pre-CLV players being unable to play CLV discs. I must be mistaken.

Fok

Good news. I guess DVDs will still be around for a while, I can't imagine this format being cheap.

DthRdrX

This is nothing short of Sony playing the part of the good guy. They know Toshiba and W-B is not giving in to them. So why not look good in the eyes of the consumers.

Sony once again has the better video format on paper, we just have to see how they run with it. Prices will come down faster with both formats trying to win the marketplace, but one format will get market acceptance much faster if the other is canceled out before any hardware is released.

Breakfast with Girls

Throw them in the trash.

DthRdrX

Hide them in a closet somewhere, a BIG closet.

nightmaster

Heerrrrrre we go again.....

I'm gonna enjoy them- while the industry starts bringing out more HD titles, while the hardware is perfected and the price lowered. People have already made mention of the fact that lots of titles on SD-DVD will probably never make their way to HD, and if they do it will be a case of years from now when it happens. When HD discs are comparable in price to my current discs I'll start buying the ones that I want in their enhanced state. This isn't the same leap that was made from VHS to DVD, not from a viability aspect. Discs have the potential to be watched their 100th time 5 and 10 years from now and still look and play as well as they did when you first opened the case for the first viewing; they shouldn't erode in quality over time. I'm all for getting my favorite movies in HD format as well as buying future movies in HD. What I'm not for is double dipping on titles that really don't need to be in the absoulute best looking format in order for me to enjoy them. There's nothing I have to 'do about' my current library other than take care of it and make it feel loved as I'm sure I'll also love HD

Iron_Giant

I remember 5 years ago that someone on this forum said that we should not buy DVDs because "HD" DVD were coming out in a few years.

So, I would have had to wait 6 six for "HD" DVDs to come out. I am happy with Regular DVDs and will wait for as long as it takes for the "HD" problem to work it self out. I am guessing that it will be another 2 years before all new titles will be shipped in "HD" DVD, so I will keep on enjoying my DVDs and not give the HD-DVD/Blue Ray another thought.

Good day all.

DthRdrX

They should have put a sticky on that person's post. Maybe we wouldn't see so many posts that look like this now.

"OMG!!! My collection is ruined!!! I have to rebuy everything! No one else will ever upgrade, it's not worth it!"

I've been reading about HD for the same time period as you and agree completely on your stance. I wouldn't expect anything regarding technology to stay the same, ever.

I must say though that I watched I, Robot in HD tonight via D-vhs. The dvd is going in the closet asap. Best HD transfer I have seen so far. The future looks good if this is what is coming! When you double dip on a dvd what do you do with the older transfer? I usually don't give it a second look. Eventually I think I'll replace 50% of my current collection in HD.

Qui Gon Jim

Great post. Also great news about the convergence. Hope it is true.

stp115

BetaMax - Well, this was technially superior to be fair
Minidisk - Has done well elsewhere, and you're forgetting a couple of formats. DCC (Digital Compact Cassette) and to a lesser extent DAT
Memory Stick - A good format that needs to be better thought out. Not completely compatible between the 3 current variations (which is a pain). better now that 3rd party maunfacturers are making some.
UMD - I thought this was an idea only a content owning manufacturer could love...

bboisvert

Here's a recent editorial on the subject:

http://www.videobusiness.com/comment...10167&catID=13

In summary, many people are buying HDTVs, but have no clue what HD programming is really all about. Many are buying HD sets just to get a large, flat screen... and don't give a shit about HD programming. Many are watching analog cable and think they're getting HD because of the set.

The end result is that you have a marketplace that is already confused -- and even early adopters are watching their DVDs and analog cable thinking they're watching "HD" programming. In this environment, launching an 'improved' format is going to be very difficult. Launching 2 competing formats is going to be pretty much impossible.

I'm excited to have HD movies on DVD, but I'm sitting this one out for a year or two (or more) to see how things go. This could very easily crash and burn.

Easy

I have no doubt this will go the same way as the DVD-A/SA-CD format war. People will sit on the sidelines waiting for a dominant format to emerge and as a result both formats will fail. I'm amazed the manufacturers involved can't see this. I guess it's tough to see beyond your own greed.

rdclark

I don't think high-resolution audio failed because of a format war. It failed because the mass market isn't interested in a high-end audio-only format. The mass market can hardly tell the difference between a 128k MP3 file and a regular CD, and cares even less.

HD is different. Tens of millions of HD displays will be purchased in the next two or three years, and most of those people will be watching HD programming via digital cable, dish or broadcast. That's a market that's already proven they're ready to buy movies and TV on disc in huge numbers, and a market that will buy HD content instead of SD content if it's available to them and the price is right.

The industry won't let that market disappear. Whether blu-ray and HDDVD converge, or combi-players become the rule, or whatever, this change is going to happen. With hi-rez audio the potiential market was never that big; with Hi-def DVD it's immense.

RichC

bboisvert

In theory, you're right. But, again, some of these recent polls are pretty startling.

There seems to be a large percentage of people buying HDTVs for the larger screen or because someone at Best Buy says that's what they should get. And these people are watching analog cable and standard DVDs -- hell, probably even VHS tapes -- and think they are watching "HD" stuff. They don't know the difference.

These are so-called early adopters. If there is that much ignorance among *that* crowd, I don't know how you're going to be able to convince the masses (or even a decent niche market) to shell out for a new format (or two!).


The companies are definitely seeing things the way you do: decent and steadily increasing sales of HDTVs means people will buy HD over SD. I'm just not convinced that anyone fully understands the "average" HD owner at this point. I think a lot of people just wanted the big (often flat) screens and don't give two shits about picture quality. (I certainly know a couple of people who own $3000+ TVs that look like crap because they're watching analog cable and haven't bothered to change the factory TV settings. They don't seem to care.)

rdclark

The current situation is unprecendented. In the past, the truism that "software drives hardware sales" has never really failed. There had to be broadcasts before people bought radios, color shows before people bought color TVs, plenty of music and movies before people bought CD and DVD players.

People buying HDTVs without having HD sources, just because of screen size or form factor, doesn't have a technological precedent that I can think of, at least not on a mass-market scale.

Nevertheless, pretty soon awareness of HDTV is going to become widespread. As the local stations gear up for the conversion, and invest more and more money in their digital infrastructure, they will be plastering the airwaves with discussion of the format. Cable companies will push their digital services more aggressively ("If you already have a digital TV, you NEED this!"). And eventually people will understand that their HD-ready TVs can do a lot more.

Meanwhile, plenty of people *are* seeing HD content on their HD screens, more and more every day. And that's without a a lot of strong and consistent pushing from the industry. When the content providers and the media all decide to start really promoting digital TV, change will come fast, IMO.

RichC

Easy

Well, I stayed away because of the format war and I know I'm not alone. When I first looked into it players were $1000 or more and played only one format. That turned me off completely. I looked at it again recently and althought there are universal players available at reasonable prices it hardly matters as both formats are now dead, or so close it makes no difference.

Maybe. I've owned a HD RPTV for years and frankly the difference between an upconverted DVD and a HD OTA broadcast doesn't knock me out. Based on that and the fact I think one or both formats will fail, I have no intention of buying either format initially. If they ever get around to native 1080p I might be swayed... I'd have to see it.

Qui Gon Jim

Then you need to get your equipment and/or HD signal source checked. Even upconverted DVDs can't touch a good HD picture; the original information for such a high resolution is not there.

This argument drives me fucking nuts! Just because you may not want to spring for a new player (and I don't blame you, I'm not going to for a long time) DOES NOT mean that the picture is inferior. You are akin to the PS2 Fanboy talking down XBox. The picture on HD FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR surpasses a SD picture when everything is configured correctly. EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Easy

No, I really don't. They're just fine.
Is there a slight improvement? Sure. But at the risk or repeating myself... It doesn't knock me out. The jump from VHS to DVD was dramatic. The jump to HD is... Bleh.
That is my opinion and I'm entitled to hold it without being called "fanboy" or anything else.

First, cost of a new player is minor. Which format/success of the format is far more important.
Second, I never said HD is inferior. You're reading things that aren't there.

MJKTool

From what I've seen programs on channels such as Discovery HD is where the jaw dropping dramatic difference is. HBO and other movie channels I definetly noticed a difference but it was not miles ahead of a good DVD picture.

Ejunior2

Well now - getting back on topic a bit....

I read an article in a recent S&V issue where the author discussed the possiblilty of having both the Blu-ray and HD-DVD data stored on the same disc. Something to do with the fact the one is a surface reading technology whereas the other is substrate reading. Similar the the layer changing deal on current disks. Technically you'd just need two lazers on the pickup focused of defferent layers. I believe he even mentioned seeing a prototype of sorts at the CES.

RocShemp

Though that sounds tecnically interesting, it also sounds comepletely idiotic. Why have a disc that is both instead of having a player that simply reads either format, if they are to insist on having the formats compete?

hogfat

While that's technically accurate, one must note that almost all HDTVs are rather inferior in their ability to actually display an unadulterated 1080 HD signal.