Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > DVD Discussions > DVD Talk
Reload this Page >

Has anyone compared the 100th Ann. Great Train Robbery to Kino's Edison Box

DVD Talk Talk about DVDs and Movies on DVD including Covers and Cases

Has anyone compared the 100th Ann. Great Train Robbery to Kino's Edison Box

Old 03-21-05, 01:27 AM
  #1  
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,306
Has anyone compared the 100th Ann. Great Train Robbery to Kino's Edison Box

Has anyone compared the 100th Ann. Great Train Robbery to Kino's Edison Box. Just wondering if they are taken from the same print...and any other reason to have the 100th anniversary dvd.




Cameron is offline  
Old 03-21-05, 01:30 AM
  #2  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Compton (Straight Outta)
Posts: 1,130
Both prints were provided by the Library of Congress, so I'd expect them to be identical. Transfer quality is a separate question but based on what I've seen from VCI it's unlikely the Kino/MoMA release would be worse.
Dan Average is offline  
Old 03-21-05, 07:58 AM
  #3  
Defunct Account
 
John Sinnott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 5,920
I wanted to compare these for my column on the Edison box, (http://www.dvdtalk.com/silentdvd/003763.html - shamless plug), but I couldn't locate a copy for rent. The VCI does have some extra movies on it, which aren't included in the Edison set: "The Heart of Texas Ryan" (1916), "Tumbleweeds" (1925) and "The Battle of Elderbush Gulch" (1913).
John Sinnott is offline  
Old 03-21-05, 05:12 PM
  #4  
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,306
thanks for the updates...where else are those movies found on dvd? I read your column...good stuff, keep up the good work. I bought a sealed copy, and just wondering if i should unload it since i have the set now.
Cameron is offline  
Old 03-21-05, 11:59 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,277
Originally Posted by Dan Average
Both prints were provided by the Library of Congress, so I'd expect them to be identical.
They aren't identical. Kino's Edison set includes color scenes for the first time. That would be quite a difference between the two.

"This is the first time that the hand-colored 'The Great Train Robbery' has been put on DVD," said Steven Higgens, the film curator of the Museum of Modern Art who compiled the Kino DVD. "That was a wonderful discovery when that turned up, and we were able to make a copy of that."

Last edited by rasalas; 03-22-05 at 12:04 AM.
rasalas is offline  
Old 03-22-05, 09:16 AM
  #6  
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,306
^^^thats what i thought but the VCI release states on the back of the box...

"This special 100th Anniversary Special Edition version contains two versions of this historically signifigant western, the original silent archival version provided by the Library of Congress and a digitally enhanced version with a new music and effects track and color tinted sequences"
Cameron is offline  
Old 03-22-05, 10:18 AM
  #7  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,277
Cameron, I think the difference is as stated on the VCI box and as clarified by the Edison set's curator: VCI's tinting was done digitally (and recently) in post-production using a B&W print, while the Edison set used an original hand-colored print from the era that was recently discovered.

That's my understanding, anyway. I'd be interested to see if anyone has further info.

If I can find my copy of the VCI disc, I'll compare and post screen grabs. I have a feeling the VCI disc will have whole-screen tinting, while the Kino disc will have individual items, such as clothing, hand-colored in different hues.

Last edited by rasalas; 03-22-05 at 10:24 AM.
rasalas is offline  
Old 03-22-05, 09:18 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,306
i would love to see some side by side shots...That makes sense though...Can't wait to see those pics...thanks again rasalas
Cameron is offline  
Old 03-23-05, 01:50 AM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 251
Originally Posted by rasalas
They aren't identical. Kino's Edison set includes color scenes for the first time. That would be quite a difference between the two.

"This is the first time that the hand-colored 'The Great Train Robbery' has been put on DVD," said Steven Higgens, the film curator of the Museum of Modern Art who compiled the Kino DVD. "That was a wonderful discovery when that turned up, and we were able to make a copy of that."
Well, they can say that, but hasn't it been available in this hand tinted color version in Kino's "The Movies Begin" set?
unclehulot is offline  
Old 03-23-05, 02:22 AM
  #10  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
The Monkees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,984
Sorry to get off topic, but that just looks weird, never in my life would I have thought I would have seen a 100th aniversary movie. WOW!
The Monkees is offline  
Old 03-23-05, 09:43 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Durham, NC USA
Posts: 994
wasn't the hand tinted version already released by Image in their history of film series a while ago?
Steve is offline  
Old 03-23-05, 12:37 PM
  #12  
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,306
i think what rasalas is saying is that this is the first time a master print with the tinting has been used, any other release (Image, Kino, VCI) has always been color corrected with a computer, and covers the entire frame, not just the certain elements. I am hoping the screen grabs will clear some of this up.

and the monkees...its a good one to say wow...100 years, and we have come a long way.

for the sake of the search engine, and in case anyone is ever searching for edison conversations I am posting this link Edison: the invention of the movies...whose getting it so they can read more on the Kino set.

thanks again
Cameron is offline  
Old 03-23-05, 10:21 PM
  #13  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,277
OK, I found my copy of the VCI DVD and did a comparison tonight. As the screen captures below show, my assumptions about the differences between the coloring of the two discs were correct. The VCI disc has whole-screen tinting, which was done recently by computer over the B&W print. Kino's Edison set uses an original hand-colored print. The latter also is of much higher quality, as shown below.

Please note: I have tried as much as possible to capture the exact frame. This was not always doable, because there was not always a corresponding frame between the two discs--a clear indication of different prints being used for each release.

I hope you find the results as enlightening as I did.


"THE GREAT TRAIN ROBBERY"
Comparison between VCI'S "100th Anniversary Special Edition" and Kino's "Edison: The Invention of the Movies"


Scene 1

VCI


KINO




Scene 2

VCI


KINO





Scene 3

VCI


KINO





Scene 4

VCI


KINO





Scene 5

VCI


KINO

Last edited by rasalas; 03-23-05 at 10:24 PM.
rasalas is offline  
Old 03-23-05, 11:35 PM
  #14  
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,306
great pics...that clears it all up.
Cameron is offline  
Old 03-24-05, 04:30 AM
  #15  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
PatrickMcCart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 1,030
The Library of Congress holds the original camera negative to The Great Train Robbery, by the way.

It would be neat if someday, the LoC could do a digital restoration using the negative and that hand-colored print. Perhaps they could somehow overlay the color over the flawless photographic quality of the negative.
PatrickMcCart is offline  
Old 03-24-05, 06:57 AM
  #16  
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 246
Originally Posted by Cameron
great pics...that clears it all up.
Yup, I've never seen this movie before, heard a lot about it but looks like I'd pick up the Kino verson.
Digital Groove is offline  
Old 03-24-05, 07:17 AM
  #17  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,277
I should add that I did captures of all but one of the hand-colored scenes from the film. I believe I left out only a scene in which there's tinted gunfire exchanged among galloping horse riders, the one just before the shootout in Scene 4.

My point is that the entire film doesn't look like the sample scenes. They are pretty much it. I'd guess those scenes total less than 3 minutes of the film's 12-minute duration. Scene 1, for example, doesn't appear until 3 minutes into the film. Then it's about a 5-minute gap before Scene 2 appears. Then they come in quick succession, but not usually back to back. The rest of the film is black and white--or maybe sepia, more accurately.

I just don't want anyone to think from my examples that the entire film looks like that.

Last edited by rasalas; 03-24-05 at 08:00 AM.
rasalas is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.