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Opinions on this DVD-Practice

Old 02-08-05, 10:43 AM
  #26  
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I'd hate to be this guy's relatives. I can see him now, digging up his mother's bones, trying to pry a ring off her finger with a screwdriver, and then finally taking a pair of shrub trimmers to her handbones to get the ring off.

Yes, this person would probably do just that. And he'd probably screw her corpse afterwords as well, just to "get a good deal".
Old 02-08-05, 11:19 AM
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Maybe libraries should start charging fair market value for "lost" items. I can guarantee you that if I was at a museum and accidently destroyed the Mona Lisa that I would get sued for more than the orginal cost of the paint and canvas.
Old 02-08-05, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by illennium
With regard to your last post, you seem to be conflating illegal with unethical. They are not the same. Smoking pot is illegal but not unethical. Cheating on your spouse is unethical but not illegal.
I think it's debatable as to whether or not smoking pot is unethical.
Old 02-08-05, 11:43 AM
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We'll sum up my thoughts: Your -ahem- "friend" is scum. A dirty, rotten piece of shit for stealing from the library. The sooner "he" gets caught and busted, the better.
Old 02-08-05, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by paulringodaman
I have a friend who searches libraries all over the county borrowing OOP/rare DVD's, claims he lost it, pays the cost of replacing it and sells it on ebay for MUCH more...Is this a bad practice or is he a genius? I am very conflicted. Is this ethica?l...I mean, nothing has been stolen. Any opinions??
Your "friend" is stealing from the community - taking those items out of circulation deprives others the opportunity to see this material without having to pay a large premium. That's why libraries should charge replacement value.

Your "friend" is not a genius; he's a selfish asshole.
Old 02-08-05, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Pillowhead
Pot meet kettle.
Old 02-08-05, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by brizz
Jack gets served.

I was the one who provided the link to that thread where Jack posted that unethical behavior and I don't get any credit for my detective work
Old 02-08-05, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by paulringodaman
I have a friend who searches libraries all over the county borrowing OOP/rare DVD's, claims he lost it, pays the cost of replacing it and sells it on ebay for MUCH more...Is this a bad practice or is he a genius? I am very conflicted. Is this ethica?l...I mean, nothing has been stolen. Any opinions??


Nothing has been stolen? Your 'friend' is stealing from the library and lying about it. If you have to ask if this is OK or ethical.....

To put it bluntly: Your 'friend' is stealing merchandise and fencing it. Really no different than anyone who breaks into your car, home, etc. takes things and sells them. I'm really hoping your friend sells them to people in other parts of the country on Ebay, that would make it a federal crime for trafficking in stolen goods. That's a felony with a 5 year minimum in Federal "pound you in the ass" prison.

And again... you need to ask if this is OK?

Last edited by renaldow; 02-08-05 at 12:57 PM.
Old 02-08-05, 12:57 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Dabaomb
Jack gets served.

I was the one who provided the link to that thread where Jack posted that unethical behavior and I don't get any credit for my detective work
I actually remembered it from the other day when he posted his response to that thread (the losing DVDs one). I just scrolled down to post my response to this thread before reading the others posts.
Old 02-08-05, 01:39 PM
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I also have a question for everyone... Is it ethical to randomly approach old people on the street, beat the crap out of them, and take all their money? Any opinions??
There are some poor analogies here, but this one takes the cake.

You know, some libraries have a Rare Books room.
If so, libraries should have better knowledge of what they offer and be keeping these DVDs in the same room.

It's "unethical", but in many cases in today's world that is about the same as "shrewd".

Last edited by gbub; 02-08-05 at 02:05 PM.
Old 02-08-05, 01:56 PM
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One quick thought -

While it is indeed stealing, "losing" a disc from blockbuster isn't nearly as bad as "losing" one from the library. Your average blockbuster is funded by The Man, and has deep pockets. It's a privately held business, and nobody loses but The Man himself.

Stealing from the library on the other hand - the often under funded library - is stealing from the community. In short, this pathetic shitbag is stealing from all of us. That's magnitudes worse than lifting discs blockbuster.

Don't get me wrong - they both suck. But one outrages me morally a whole lot more.
Old 02-08-05, 01:59 PM
  #37  
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It's sad that you have to ask our opinion if what your "friend" is doing is ethical. I hope you're not serious. And you won't find justification here either.
Old 02-08-05, 02:05 PM
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I'm having trouble deciding just how unethical this even is. There is no crime. Nothing was stolen (he checked it out) and retributions satisfactory to the library were made. There is no difference between the money he paid then and say if the library was moving and had to liquidate some inventory. If the library sells the DVD at a moving sale substanially lower than its worth, is it unethical to buy it. The question being can you buy community property and sell it for a profit. This often happens at state/city auctions.

The only actual unethical thing he did was the lie about what happened to the DVD. To say he deprived the community of it is to assume it is some significance to society. Salo or The Little Shop of Horros SE being checked out and never retured is no big loss to us all. 99% of the community probably didn't even realize the DVD was there.
Old 02-08-05, 02:07 PM
  #39  
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that is some shady business. I'm sure if your "friend" has been doing it for a while and can find nothing wrong with "losing" DVDs from the library, I'm sure a handful of members on a message board isn't going to change his mind. Neither will a "friend" that says "HEY WAIT BUT THATS WRONG!". Hell if he has been doing this for a while we can safely assume he doesn't give a shit.

also the fact that he is paying for these DVDs that he supposedly lost, doesn't justify the fact that he is stealing from the library. even if he does pay some sort of replacement cost, I'm sure it won't cover, 1. the prices they really sell for on places like ebay, and 2. if the library will be able to get their hands on another copy.
Old 02-08-05, 02:10 PM
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I would equate this to going into a store and taking a cheaper price tag and sticking on a more expensive item and then getting away with paying the cheaper price. Even though he is paying for the "lost" library DVD, he is not paying what it is really worth or what it would actually cost to replace. Not only is he lying, he is doing so to make a profit. Completely unethical.
Old 02-08-05, 02:10 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by gbub
I'm having trouble deciding just how unethical this even is. There is no crime.
Unlawful conversion is a crime in every jurisdiction, I'm sure. The "friend" committed fraud in order to assume ownership of property, and such ownership would not be given if not for the fraud. This is a crime. Duh.

Nothing was stolen (he checked it out) and retributions satisfactory to the library were made. There is no difference between the money he paid then and say if the library was moving and had to liquidate some inventory. If the library sells the DVD at a moving sale substanially lower than its worth, is it unethical to buy it. The question being can you buy community property and sell it for a profit. This often happens at state/city auctions.

The only actual unethical thing he did was the lie about what happened to the DVD.
First, I love how you know that a lie is involved, yet you're having trouble deciding how unethical it is. What amazing times of ethical decisionmaking we live in.

Further, you're ignoring the fact that the discs, apparently difficult to obtain items, are being taken out of free public circulation. Yes, libraries often liquidate inventory, but circulation decisionmaking is supposed to be in their hands (not the hands of an individual outsider seeking profit) and rare and in-demand items are unlikely to be liquidated. Libraries are generally taxpayer-funded entities that allow for the free circulation of materials. This undermines the basic goal of libraries and it is the blatant defrauding of taxpayers. If you're having trouble deciding whether this is unethical, DVDs are the least of your worries.

DJ
Old 02-08-05, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by gbub
I'm having trouble deciding just how unethical this even is. There is no crime. Nothing was stolen (he checked it out) and retributions satisfactory to the library were made. There is no difference between the money he paid then and say if the library was moving and had to liquidate some inventory. If the library sells the DVD at a moving sale substanially lower than its worth, is it unethical to buy it. The question being can you buy community property and sell it for a profit. This often happens at state/city auctions.

The only actual unethical thing he did was the lie about what happened to the DVD. To say he deprived the community of it is to assume it is some significance to society. Salo or The Little Shop of Horros SE being checked out and never retured is no big loss to us all. 99% of the community probably didn't even realize the DVD was there.
Suppose the "Library" is "You".
Old 02-08-05, 02:17 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Dabaomb
you've gotta be kidding me. I can only imagine that you don't have too many friends
My friends know how I feel about burning (stealing) music and DVDs. If they would rather be thieves than be my friend, I don't really need them around. Some of them still do it, but they are careful to never bring it up around me or ask to borrow any of my movies (as this would land them a big no and a lecture). Don't think I would just turn someone in randomly, I would give them plenty of warning that what they were doing is illeagal and they should stop. Thieves drive the price up for everyone.

I have done plenty of wrong things in my life so I am not saying there should be zero tolerance, but I "grew" and took responsibility for my life and decisions and I expect my friends to do so as well.

Last edited by speedyray; 02-08-05 at 02:20 PM.
Old 02-08-05, 02:20 PM
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On a similar note... my friend is a seriel killer that kills hookers but denies it. I mean, hookers lives are pretty much done already, right? This is ethical right? The police and families of the hookers would understand right???
Old 02-08-05, 02:23 PM
  #45  
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For one, it's lying. If your 'friend' doesn't have a problem with that at all, that says a lot.
Secondly it is depriving the community of 'their' assets. Either the library will replace that dvd [possibly at a very high cost, thus affecting the budget and taxation again], or not, which deprives the community.
Thirdly, it's stealing from his neighbours. Who bought that dvd or book? Your community with its taxes.

I can see a similarity between this and the price tag switch. But those items, at least, are both meant for sale--the library usually doesn't sell books. If you were 'legally' offered a book/dvd for sale by the library, well, that's different. My library has a book sale every year where they sell probably 200,000-400,000 books, for prices ranging from 4 bucks each on opening day to 5 bucks a box on closing day, and I definitely get my twenty bucks worth. But that is the library deciding to sell particular inventory, and stating a price they are willing to accept.
Old 02-08-05, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by gbub
If the library sells the DVD at a moving sale substanially lower than its worth, is it unethical to buy it.
And speaking of poor analogies... you honestly don't see the difference between the library voluntarily selling something versus him keeping the rental and lying about it?

As far as my "analogy" goes it was tongue-in-cheek and not meant to be taken literally. Obviously, assault and robbery is worse than what this guy's friend did. The point I was trying to make is that what his friend did is so clearly unethical that the average 10-year old would know it was unethical. Just like the average 10-year old knows beating up and robbing people is clearly unethical. Of course, since you are the only one defending this selfish jerk, I'm not surprised you didn't comprehend my analogy.
Old 02-08-05, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by El-Kabong
*snip*
It's a privately held business, and nobody loses but The Man himself.
*snip*
Actually, "The Man" himself, doesn't lose. He never loses. He simply shrugs and passes the losses on to the customers.
Old 02-08-05, 03:17 PM
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First, I love how you know that a lie is involved, yet you're having trouble deciding how unethical it is.
All right there's only so much time in one day, but...calling work and telling them your too sick to come in: a lie...unethical? Telling someone you're too busy to talk on the phone: a lie...unethical

Point being that calling something unethical because it's a lie cuts a pretty sharp line down society and thus 99.99% of the world is unethical unless you've never told a lie.

I'm no lawyer but calling this illegal or fraud is beyond my comprehension. If it's fraud then anytime someone goes in for a price mistake, they willingly know that price is incorrect and even argue to get that price. If that's not fraud, then this surely isn't.

The library could have asked him to replace the DVD or send him a bill when they replaced it. They asked for what they thought it was worth. Does anyone think the library took the $25 or whatever he payed for it and tried to buy the same movie only to find it's out-of-print?

I don't think the guy should be going in and lying about what happened to the DVD. He should ask if he could buy. He could try to trade a few shiney Academy Award Winners for it. But equating what he did in "obvious wrongness" to beating up old people or killing hookers and all the horrible things said is absurd.
Old 02-08-05, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by gbub
All right there's only so much time in one day, but...calling work and telling them your too sick to come in: a lie...unethical?
Sounds like it to me.

Telling someone you're too busy to talk on the phone: a lie...unethical
I guess it would depend on why you're doing it.

Point being that calling something unethical because it's a lie cuts a pretty sharp line down society and thus 99.99% of the world is unethical unless you've never told a lie.
So 99.99% of the world has acted unethically at one or more times in their lives. So what?

I'm no lawyer but calling this illegal or fraud is beyond my comprehension. If it's fraud then anytime someone goes in for a price mistake, they willingly know that price is incorrect and even argue to get that price. If that's not fraud, then this surely isn't.
That situation is so unlike this one, I can't even see the analogy at all. And you criticized bad analogies before? Yeesh. Maybe you're forgetting: there was no item offered for sale in this situation. Asking a seller to stand behind their mistaken price offering isn't even in the same universe as acquiring an item that wasn't being offered for sale by lying.

I don't think the guy should be going in and lying about what happened to the DVD.
Why? Because lying is...unethical?

DJ
Old 02-08-05, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Upper pylon 3
Maybe libraries should start charging fair market value for "lost" items.
Not a library, but there is an indie video store in Toronto that has practically the entire Criterion collection available for rent. There are big signs with the OOP titles stating the replacement cost if a renter loses (or "loses") the disc. I haven't been there in a few years, but I remember at the time, the replacement cost for SALO, for example, was about $300 CDN. Not a bad idea at all.

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