DJ,

Comparing Citizen Kane to an 80s flick, The Karate Kid, is absurd. I think a film appreciation class might help you.

Now, let's get back to the original post and address what's happening with DVD and how it is perceived by many, especially at the HTF, as negative!

Would this be the class that teaches that a film will reach its full potential when it has sound blaring out of all speakers? Gee, I think I'm too overbooked to sit in on that one, sorry.

DJ

Rise up and overthrow these evil overlords who dare to throw us the 2.0 scraps that fall from their gluttonous mouths as they feast upon the paychecks of the poor working man!! I'm off to do a Google Image Search to find a picture that properly depicts my outrage!!!

[QUOTE=Matt Millheiser]Then later on, we can purchase a new release with full six-channel digital sound to fill up our speakers with better quality. QUOTE]


You assume that full six-channel digital sound to fill up your speakers IS better quality. You know what they say about people that assume.

I'm amazed at the number of J6P members here! After DVD household penetration reached 50 million, I predicted this.

Again, let's get back to discussing the sometimes deplorable treatment regular DVD is receiving from the studios - MGM being one of the worst!

DD5.1 and DTS tracks are fine with me as long as the original soundtrack audio is also present. Frankly, a poorly mixed 5.1 track ruins the movie for me.

I'm really not sure what the "outrage" here is for. DVD is a product, just like any other. Apex makes cheap barebones dvd players and other companies make expensive ones; both let you watch movies. There is no gun to your head making you buy one or the other. The same is for dvds, the barebones release and the loaded one both let you watch the film. You might have to wait a while for the loaded one to come out, but such is the game. The multi-dipping is so obvious at this point its like the bitching doesn't even matter, because you know if you want the best version you are going to have to wait.

He's not comparing the two movies. You'd see that if you took the time to cool down and try and understand his point which I happen to agree with.

DVD, when it was first introduced, was a marvelous format. We were told that the discs would hold both the FS and WS versions, 5.1/DTS promised superior sound, cover art was usually the movie poster... Today we have a J6P driven format and if we don't make our voices heard, it will get worse.

My current personal pet peeve? Big head cover art - Finding Neverland just had its fabulous cover revised. It's now cr*p.

Why is nobody getting my sarcasm??

I believe he *is* comparing the audio presentation.

Matt, I'm just too displeased at this point with the majority of people posting here and the studios.

Sarcasm can be, in my opinion, wonderful.

Then you're wrong. I never mentioned Citizen Kane and The Karate Kid in the same sentence, no less made a comparison of the two. I applied your general statement about what constitutes a "full quality" presentation to a particular film. No comparison between the two films was made.

Either a) you don't understand a word of my posts or b) you're trolling. In either case, I don't have the time or patience to bother.

DJ

When you refer to Citizen Kane while you are attacking my position on a 5.1 mix for The Karate Kid it implies a comparison. You meant to imply that I would insist on a 5.1 mix for Citizen Kane, which is completely untrue. CK is an old movie classic not some current flick that could use a touch-up!

You said that 5.1 or DTS sound is "full quality." You never limited this comment to The Karate Kid. You made a general comment about what constitutes a quality presentation of a film, and I applied it to a specific circumstance. No comparison was made, implied or otherwise.

If it's not true, then say so. Then go on to explain why 5.1 wouldn't constitute "full quality" and "fully potential" for Citizen Kane, but it would for other films.

DJ

I get it. Nicely played.

DJ,

I think you understand my point quite well. I'm not here to play games, troll... I am simply trying to generate some discussion about DVDs and quality. Obviously my taste (education and interest) in film is a bit more refined than yours. That's not to insult you, it's to state an unfortunate fact.

I, for one, will not watch this film until someone releases it in color. I mean, I don't have a black and white 53" DLP, do I?

I do? What the heck is it?

Then you're failing miserably. You haven't made a single cohesive argument in any of your posts.

Bravo.

Guy, if you think that modifying films to have sound blaring out of all speakers is what is needed to have a film realize its full potential, your taste is about as refined as feces.

DJ

I'm sure the studios are pleased, to say the least, that a post criticizing their sometimes dubious DVD practices has degenerated to this point. Sad - we all lose.

I really have to agree with djtoell on this matter.

People on here make a *HUGE* deal about how they want thier movies presented the same way they were in the theater...yet bitch the moment these movies aren't in full 5.1/DTS mix on DVD. The orginal theater experience didnt include surround sound...so wouldnt this 5.1 business take away from the "orginal theater experience"

The exact same thing happened when "Back to the Future" came out. I remember someone saying something like "Well, if they had surround sound at the time they would have shot the movie in it." Then someone else said that by that reasoning all B&W movies should be colorized because, had the ability to film in color been affordable/availible, they would have shot the movie in color.

You obviously don't get it, if you refer to those who prefer original soundtracks as J6P. Do you not understand that they can't create 5.1 channels from 1 or 2 channels very well? Please search for threads on Godfather soundtrack for all the complaints about NOT having mono available since the pseudo-5.1 is questionable on the DVD. I often find that using the stereo tracks on 80s movies decoded with DPL II is more engaging than the crap 5.1 tracks the studios foisted on us. Or just the stereo in stereo.

Well, I doubt they give 2 shakes for anything here or anywhere else that fanboys like us chat. But it's again a J6P issue. Most people don't give a damn about what the cover looks like or anything else. You're right, the multiple versions are a ripoff in some ways. On the other hand, it often gives those who care the product they want. Eventually...

The most important aspect of dvd is the presentation of the film itself.

Extras are the least important factor in purchasing a dvd. So it does NOT matter if a film is released bare bones now or not.

If you want to purchase a newer film and it is released bare first,then loaded later. You have a choice,pick it up now and rebuy later,or wait and buy later. NO one is 'forcing' you to purchase either version!

So complaining about it is pretty lame and pointless.

Also most extras on newer releases(especially those lousy 'commentaries') are pretty worthless. Studios are killing the appeal of extra features but basically 'requiring'(or forcing) the cast and crew to participate immediately after filming.

Being so current,the commentaries are pretty lame and lack the 'charm' of most older films being discussed years later(when they have plenty too look back on). "hey I remember when I was filming this..."..you don't get that on 'current' commentaries..and most of the participants seem disinterested,just going through the motions. Just one of many examples how studios 'requiring' dvds too be loaded with 'features' is killing them in general. So much so,that I don't give much care about extra features today,unless they are truely something special and worth my time.



On the audio front,you know how I feel about that

I appreciate original audio mixes over revamped versions. The majority of 'updated' audio mixes sound lame,less atmospheric and just not 'right' at all. They completely change the tone and feel of a film,when they go out of their way to 'update' the sound. Even when the new mixes are largely mono,but spread out abit with the music. They still don't sound 'right'.

The Godfather remix sounds atrocious. The voices don't sound natural now and have this tin can echo effect. Some reviewers proclaim "it is a 'limitation' of the original sources' attempting to say "The film was never recorded 'properly'. When I have seen and heard the original mono mix of The Godfather a few times and not once did the dialogue sound as unnatural as on the 5.1 remix! Yet the 5.1 lovers living in their fantasy land of ignorance think all 'bad' dialogue sounding 5.1 remixes are '"limitations of the original sources which were never recorded properly. Afterall,mono means subpar quality!"


Also replacing sound effects just to 'update' the audio does'nt always work well.

The 'transmission' sequence in the 'alternate'(the so called 'directors cut') version of Alien is ruined with the new 'updated' sound effects replacing the 'alien transmission signal'. Viewing the original deleted scene on the original dvd release. Not only is the signallouder,but far more disturbing and creepy sounding! Meanwhile the remix/replaced effect is lower and sounds lame with uncreepy sound effects and sounds pretty generic.

Just because a film was made in 2.0 stereo,or mono in the 70's or 80's(or any time) does not mean 'updating' the audio to 5.1 will sound 'better'. In fact many times the remixes sound pretty lame.

New Line Cinema's 5.1 mixes of 2.0 stereo films sound beyond terrible. They always come out lower sounding,and very shrill compared to the more atmospheric natural sounding original mixes.

Ocasionally an 'upgrade' from stereo to 5.1 doesn't sound 'too' bad. But too many times,the mixers screw it up with attempting to 'update' the audio in the first place. So it is better to just leave original audio mixes alone. Restore them to perfect clarity and they will kick as much ass as any 5.1 mix. It is not about how many speakers are being used,but how well the film sounds in it's original form.

So a true film fan would appreciate both the original aspect ratio and original audio mixes of a film. Since they appreciate the actual work and effort put into the film by the makers.

Meanwhile a less caring person has no problems with a piece of art being altered to suit their needs.