It also has one of the best commentaries I have ever heard.

Also, the Spinal Tap CC and MGM extras do not overlap. The two commentaries on the Criterion disk are exclusive, as are a majority of the deleted scenes and promos. I also appreciate Criterion for keeping the location of the various venues in the film in the print, instead of doing what MGM did and make them player-generated.

Well, let me try to clarify my statement.

1) Criterion - as a rule - cost almost 50% more than any other DVD manufactuer. Sometimes more. The fact that they are an independent does not cut it for me because Image, Roan and even VCI does some very nice transfers at a fraction of the price.

2) I find most of their supplements to be focused on quantity rather than quality.

3) I am not saying that Criterion is a bad company. Only that they are just one of many DVD companies and - in my opinion - is no better or worse than the others. Thus I can find no justification for their high price tag.

4) Where Critierion does excel is on the sheer # of foreign films released. That I must give them credit for.

Perhaps it is just their high price tag and the internet forums that scream for "the Criterion treatment" that irk me. Image has done an incredible job of film restoration, silents and especially their new Milestone collection. Yet I never hear of someone wanting the "image treatment."

Every - repeat every - other company is reducing their DVD prices - if not initially, then over time. The average starting price for a full loaded SE is pretty much $29.95. A year later you the MSRP goes down to $24.95, or even $19.95. I have not seen many (any?) Criterions go down below their initial $39.95 - even for single disc editions! (Lady Vanishes, Fiend without a face, etc.).

if their price point were more in line with the industry then I would cut them more slack. But when a company consistently goes against the price trend of the industry and sticks to an (imho) insane $40 price point, then i feel they must justify it. And, again imho, they have not done it for me. Even the fact that they produce a large quanity of foreign films does not seem to me to justify that these films should cost $40 a pop.

And I have been VERY disappointed in some Criterion transfers. I was apalled at their handling of W.C fields. the 6 shorts was only marginally better than the Madacy verison (at least for some of them). Granted that wasn't a $40 item, but the A/V transfer was so disappointing (mediocre at best) that I feel a $9.95 price tag was more appropriate. And I am still shocked that despite the $60 price tag for the Brazil box set that I got essentially the SAME transfer as the Universal version. Are people so obsessed with supplements that nobody cares if the movie itself is not any better with Criterion?

I understand that I am in the minority in my opinion. The fact that some people think my comments were 'ludicrous' pretty much supports that.

However, we should all remember that this is a supply and demand economy. Companies like Criterion will continue to charge a premium for typical DVD releases as long as there are enough people who will pay this amount.

Thank you for listening..

Yes, but...

Image is usually just a distributor who handles releases for others. For example, the Milestone Films 2-disc set for Phantom of the Opera is a very Criterion-like release. In fact, it had the same heavy amount of digital restoration applied (compare the version aired on Turner Classic Movies with the DVD.) However, Milestone's transfer originated from Photoplay Productions who made it in 1996. So, they just had to add the additional digital restoration, which Scott MacQueen produced. If Criterion produced the set, they would have been able to justify a higher price because of the work they'd have to do.

Examples? Criterion seems to be one of the best when it comes to putting extras that aren't fluffy.

Well, I think a lot of Criterion's DVD's are just as good as Warner's 2-disc SE's. Warner prices stuff lower. However... no one but Criterion would put out those excellent editions of 8 1/2, The Third Man, and The Royal Tenenbaums. Also, they have great quality control.

Image doesn't own Milestone Films, they just distribute them. Milestone doesn't really deal with what Criterion would, except for maybe Phantom of the Opera and "It". Milestone is also provided with a lot of the transfers, which they really just tweak (like Phantom). Criterion often has to do everything from scratch.

I think most of their prices are justified by the content. I paid $26.99 for Notorious when it came out. I feel that it was worth it since the movie was newly restored ON FILM, plus it was given additional digital work. Same thing for 8 1/2 and The Third Man.

I've seen several of the W.C. Fields shorts on TCM (sourced from the Criterion disc) and I think you're wrong. All 6 were restored by UCLA. Even "Pool Sharks" looks almost new. I do think it's overpriced, due to it only having about 90 min. worth of material, and it's all shorts. They went for lower prices for two short documentaries, so why not this?

Well, one other problem is that Criterion makes sales almost exclusively on the internet, probably. I rarely see Criterions in stores, unless they're the Universal and Buena Vista licensed titles. 90% of what they release isn't going to be in most stores.

The funny thing is that this very point renders every other argument you made moot. I think a great many people would take umbrage with your impression that Criterion is more concerned with quantity over quality extras. That simply isn't true. They have more commentaries and consistently unique and inventive extra content.

The only point I sort of agree with is that the market seems to have shifted downward in pricing and Criterion alone has not budged. I would like to see them drop their MSRP levels $5 to make them slighty more affordable, and think that after, say 2 years, they should drop $10. However, i'm also willing to allow that while larger companies have curbed costs, it is reasonable to assume that Criterion's struggles with rights issues and the fact that nearly every title they release requires extensive restoriation both require a higher pricing structure. I don't know the economics of it, but I do know from just about every source that they are hardly millionaires.

In the end, the wonderful job they do on 95% of their titles justifies the premium pricetag. an occassional stinker is expected and can't diminish the incredible work they do. No one else comes close.

Roan & VCI specialize in Public Domain films, so they do not have the expense of licensing the films they choose to release. They typically do barebones releases as well. Their discs are priced accordingly.

Image mainly acts as a distributor of DVD packages produced by other companies (e.g., David Shepard's Film Preservation Associates, Milestone, Mosfilm, etc.). From what I know, they do very little in-house work.

Criterion, on the other hand, typically purchases the rights to a given film, often searches archives for the best available film elements, may pay for restoration work to the film elements, performs the digital transfer & clean-up, produces its own special features, commissions essays, booklets, and commentary tracks (and records & edits the latter); their producers fly around the world to interview surviving cast & crew members; produce their own featurettes; they design all aspects of the package: cover & insert art, animated menus; they license contemporaneous documentary material.

Criterion's only source of income comes from the sales of their DVDs (Image previously owned DVD Planet; they release a much wider range of product than does Criterion (25-30 new releases every month), & likely make the bulk of their money on TV-on-DVD (Dick van Dyke, Pee Wee Herman, Twilight Zone, Saved by the Bell, Father Murphy), cult horror, music videos, soft-core Penthouse videos---NOT from European art films.

That (again--ludicrous) statement makes me believe that you haven't sampled a Criterion release since 1999. In my experience (and I own over 200 of their DVDs) Criterion seldom if ever pads its supplements with puff pieces like all the major studios do. Their supplements are well thought out, appropriate, and well-produced. I'm not arguing that every release is a masterpiece of DVD production, or that other companies don't ever reach the same heights (Warner Bros. does routinely), but Criterion invented the Special Edition film treatment, and they continue to perfect it.

Some examples of Criterion's excellence in special features:
Fassbinder's BRD Trilogy, The Leopard, John Cassavetes: Five Films, The Adventures of Antoine Doinel, Straw Dogs, Rules of the Game, The Battle of Algiers ... I could go on & on.

To lump Criterion together with the Roans and VCIs and Kinos and Images is to ignore the fact that--within its niche of classic, foreign, and indie films--this relatively small independent company can produce releases which routinely exceed the quality of the deep-pocketed major studios. As an example, look no further than the abominable release of Satyajit Ray's Apu Trilogy by Sony/Columbia TriStar in 2003: Three totally barebones, unrestored releases at $29.99 apiece---that's 90 Bucks for the trilogy. Redirect your anger at the TRUE price gougers out there!

I own two dozen of Image's releases, so let's explore their quality and prices:

Image has cornered the market on Italian Neorealism, having released De Sica's Shoeshine and Bicycle Thief; Rosselini's Open City and Germany Year Zero; and Visconti's La Terra Trema, Ossessione, and Rocco and His Brothers. All of these films would be worthy of "the Criterion treatment." Yet Image released every last one of them barebones, unrestored (and in pretty rough shape), and at prices between $24.99 and 29.99. What a great value!!!

As for silents, Feuillade's Les Vampires will set you back $69.99 (!) for a single DVD (dual-layer, dual-sided). For the record, it includes a 7-page essay and 11 minutes of tangentially related material. A barebones copy of Griffith's Way Down East costs $29.99.

Fritz Lang's Dr. Mabuse, the Gambler was released by Image on 2 discs for $39.99 with a commentary by David Kalat. Criterion released Lang's The Testament of Dr. Mabuse on 2 discs for $39.99 with a Kalat commentary and a number of other extras. Where's the savings??

Compare the Image (via Mosfilm) 2-disc release of Tarkovsky's Stalker with virtually ANY 2-disc Criterion release. Yes, there are extras, but do they justify the $49.99 pricetag?

Finally, Marcel Ophuls' celebrated documentary, The Sorrow and the Pity was released barebones (not even an essay to place it in context) on 2 discs by Image (via Milestone) for $49.99. Not much value there, either ...

With the W.C. Fields disc you reach back to a release from four-and-a-half years ago. Is it a good example of Criterion's standard release? Of course not. The company has continued to add value to their releases over the last five years, but you're still stuck in the past.

As for Brazil, it was released in July of 1999 by Criterion, and in April 2003 by Universal. I hope to God that Universal could produce a transfer as good as that from 1999! Nearly six years later, the Criterion is still cited as one of the greatest DVD packages of all time (though other Criterion releases have clearly eclipsed it in quality in the intervening years).

You are correct that as DVDs have become a popular consumer commodity, prices have dropped from the major studios. Criterion is a niche product, but it's still not immune from market pressures. The folks at Criterion recognize that they cannot compete with the major studios on price (as I said above, they have no other source of income to absorb the costs, unlike the diversified, megaconglomerate studios and their owners). So they have chosen instead to add value to their releases. Gone are the barebones releases of yesteryear. The transfers have improved in quality. The supplements have improved in quality and quantity (though still without padding). For those of us who live in 2005 (and not 1999) and who purchase and devour Criterion's offerings, many still find the Criterion product worth its price (though most of us will still bitch & moan from time-to-time). I'm proud that the company has remained independent and continues to exceed its already high standards.

Thanks for reading.

It always bugs me when people say 'I'm not paying 40 bucks for a criterion release!!!'. Where are these people shopping??? I can pick up new release Criterions at Borders for $21 (single disc) or $26 dollars (double disc) regularly. The highest I have seen here is $36, but I wouldn't buy for that price. Also, at the local 'Movie Trading Company' I can buy new releases for between $23 and $27 bucks.

Pre-orders on Amazon and DDD also have new releases for $20-$28.

I have the entire collection and I never pay exorbitant prices for them. I also use coupons, sales, etc. to get a deal, just like everyone else.

Crying over a company like Criterion is insane! Criterion is a beacon for true lovers of film and has done wonders for the media. I think this has more to due with the jealousy and bitterness over lacking the funds to collect a good collection of DVD's. This is not an insult, but my observation.

People who 'hate' Criterion usually give bizarre reasons and vague accusations and then top it off with "Perhaps it is just their high price tag and the internet forums that scream for "the Criterion treatment" that irk me."

Total jealousy, no fact. I think there's no 'perhaps' about it...

True, and also a lack of taste or willingness to be open-minded. Many of the films in the Criterion catalogue are foreign, obscure, arty, or all of the above, which doesn't exactly contribute to it's popularity with the mainstream DVD consumer.

Have to say i can't argue too much with what FilmFanSea has so articulately stated and i would go as far as to agree entirely with the notion of Criterion producing supplemental material on a quantity to quality ratio as 'ludicrous' also...simple fact is the supplemental material compliments each release to perfection and the artistic merits of their covers just goes to illustrate (if you pardon the pun) the care and thought that goes into every release (i am of course referring to the last 3 years or so as has already been stated)

I may have been more inclined to listen to your argument if perhaps you had given Blue Underground or Synapse as an example..whilst both are very genre specific..i think it is fair to categorise them right up there with Warner Brothers in consistently releasing titles of a high standard etc.