ScottsDvds

Warner Bros took a stand against laserdisc when DVDs arrived. They (Image wasn't allowed to use a lot of material) stripped down the laserdiscs and built up special editions on DVD. It could happen with HD and standard DVDs.

Coral

Not a chance.

The Laserdisc market was puny - so there was almost nothing to lose, whereas DVD had so much potential and they really wanted to push it.
For Warner (or any studio) to now ignore the HUGE DVD consumer base that has brought them so much revenue would be one of the dumbest business decisions ever made.

hifisapien

Laserdiscs never really had much bonus materials to begin with because the discs were very expensive to MFG and only held 120 minutes using both sides so it was not viable to add much bonus material except in VERY expensive box sets. So by abandoning bonus materials on Laserdisc they werent removing much anyway. The
DVD situation is different. There is way more on them now than LD ever had so if they tried to remove them from DVD releases lots of people would notice a BIG difference.

chipmac

You might still disagree but I think you're either misunderstanding the original question and what I said. I never said that movies will only be released on HD DVD and not on SD DVD. I said that studios might not re-release new SEs on SD DVD and wait until they release the HD DVD version to add the extras to a movie like Braveheart that has already seen a bare bones SD DVD release. In other words they'll release only the SE on HD DVD rather than release a new SE on SD DVD. This way for people who need to have the SE will be forced to make the switch to HD DVD. If they release the SE on both SD and HD DVD then the only incentive people have to upgrade will be PQ alone.

ScottsDvds

If a studio makes let say ten dollars on standard DVD and twenty dollars on a HD-DVD, they will force the higher profit margin. The studios could care less about quility and more about money (copy protection). The laserdisc market was small, but remember the DVD market was small the first two years and Warner Bros saw it as a competitor. I have a bunch of laserdiscs from Warner Bros during 98-99 and most of them lack a lot of the special features (Rosewood didn't even include the audio commentary), but most of them had space on side three and four. I think this could happen, but HD DVD has to be released. I remember hearing about DVD in 1995 0r 1996, but didn't purchase until 1997.

hifisapien

How much money the studios make on HD-DVD and DVD for that matter will be driven by consumers and competition. You have to remember that when DVD came out the reason it was so sucessful was it was CHEAPER than laserdisc while providing higher performance. If HD-DVD is same price or cheaper than DVD, DVD will be history. If it costs more than DVD then how much more will be critical. My feeling is that HD-DVD will eventually replace DVD once the cost of the Disc MFG comes close to DVD disc mfg. The studios will not be able to keep a "bubble" price on them as competition always kicks in and brings prices down to reality in the longer term.

hifisapien

You were not very clear but if what you are saying is that DVD SE REISSUES may be held off once HD-DVD hits the market, I think you may be right. Why would a fanatic want the DVD SE reissue when he could get the HD-DVD version. In other words if you bought the basic DVD and want to upgrade, why waste your time with a better DVD, just go for the SE HD-DVD and be done with it.

Zodiac_Speaking

You hit the nail on its head as far as I'm concerned, buddy.

ScottsDvds

I'm saying the studios can manipulate the market and want to be in control. They can load up HD DVD and strip down DVD, because they can. I'm not saying they will, it's pure speculation.

speedyray

it was pointed out that 10 million HDTVs have been sold. SO! The U.S. poulation is almost 300 million. Wow, 3% has one. Wait, that number doesn't take into account that a crapload of those sets are owned by businesses. Or that several have probably died and or are for some other reason no longer in service. DVD on the other hand sold 13 million players in the first half of 2004. Todate it is estimated that about 60+ million homes have DVD. Still quite a few that do not.

Oh, and you can find a "normal" tv at any electronics store - at least that J6P would go to. Best Buy, Circuit City, Sears, Target, etc all stock several to choose from. I know exactly 1 person that has an HDTV. I plan to add my name to the list in the next year or so, but I still see no real pressing need to upgrade. A pretty picture is not why I watch movies - it just aids in the enjoyment. I invest in sound - audio is more important to me - I have nice THX receiver and some nice speakers with a 32 inch Toshiba.

Some form of HD-DVD will be here to stay - there is a market, albeit small right now. The vast majority of people don't care though - just like OAR vs. P&S. That is why DVDs and HD-DVD will be two seperate categories and not dependent on each other. I will not be suprised to see different SEs in both formats or possibly the same SE with better video on HD disc. The DVD market is not going anywhere, just like VHS is still around. Once enough switch, almost everyone, DVD will wither and die as VHS is doing currently. It took a shade under a decade with DVD. I figure HD, due to set issues (most people dod't have a HDTV) - I figure it will be 10 years before HD can dominate. in 2015 most people should have HD sets and HD everything else.

ScottsDvds

There's no doubt HD DVD will be more expensive than DVD. I don't know why everybody is worried.

hifisapien

This is a very illogical post. There may be close to 300 million people in the USA but there arent 300 million households. To call 10 million HDTV owners "niche" is wrong and I doubt that 10 million LD players were ever sold which is the thing I was comparing HDTV to. In less than 5 years HDTV will be the standard, no more analog. This is not niche now and will only become mainstream year by year.

Regarding "normal" TVs ( I call them "smellivisions") there are VERY few models left and those are all real cheap small CRTS where hi-def is not justified or even visible. There is always a market for real cheap junk for kids
and stuff but I doubt even those will be available much longer because analog is being phased out by law in a few years.

Regarding "pretty pictures" if you dont care about picture quality you are 1 in a million because I have never met anyone prefers a crappy picture with great sound over a great picture with great sound. You dont watch movies for the pictures? If you only want sound why not just listen to music?

You dont have to give up sound quality to go to HDTV image. Secondly there is current no home video formats with great sound to begin with. Both DTS and Dolby Digital are overcompressed very limited bandwidth audio that approximates mediocre CD
and doesnt get close to SACD or DVD-Audio quality available today. I think you are thinking with your wallet instead of your brain. Have you ever seen anamorphic DVDs on progressively scanned high definition 16:9 screens? If you have you would know that the DVD picture quality improvement is not subtle and the result is quite beautiful. Who wants to watch UGLY blurry images with visible scan lines when you can watch BEAUTIFUL crystal clear ones with no scan lines? and this is with DVD, let alone HDTV. I'll take beauty over ugly everytime. I am of the opinion that it is well worth buying a HDTV just for DVD usage even if you dont get HDTV signals because the improvements in DVD playback is really outstanding and visible.

Secondly, I disagree than most people dont care about HDTV. It is so much better than SDTV that even non-videophile "joe sixpacks" instantly see the and appreciate the improvement unlike OAR/P&S which takes some understanding. To appreciate HDTV all you need is a pair of normal eyes.

I think your "decision" to not buy HDTV and settle for mediocre SDTV when HDTV is here NOW is very typical and very shortsighted. You are like most people, you greatly undervalue home entertainment and foolishly try to save
a few measely dollars and suffer for it culturally. Buy a HDTV. They are cheap enuff that it is a no brainer decision. The 1000's and 1000's of hours of enjoyment you will get out of one makes one an outright STEAL. Sticking
with SDTV displays for DVD is really dumb by now....HDTVs are not $10,000 items anymore. Hell you can get nice ones for under $1000. I paid $1000 for a 25" sony tv in 1983 that would be junk by todays HDTV standards so you can now get better value on home video display than ever before and you are going to stick with SDTV? Not very smart IMHO. Bottom Line : HDTV is much better, even if only for DVD playback. So the question is: Is it worth buying one at the current prices or not? The Answer is : YES! Without a doubt.

speedyray

Did you read what I posted. I actually said I plan to buy an HDTV in the next year or so. I am disputing that the general public cares.

I have been shopping for a new set for some time, so i spend a lot of time at the store looking at these things and this is what I see day in a day out. Someone sees the HD and says"oooooooh & awwwww" and then walks out with the cheap 4:3 analog tv or complains they are too expensive and walks out $1000 is a good deal of money to some families. Just cause people think it is nice, they are not going to buy it. During the holidays I saw a lot of sets sold and I would say it was 50/50 maybe 60 (HD)/40 whether it was HD - its not like everyone is willing to adopt yet.

Oh, and 32 -36 inch tvs are small - because I see plenty of those that are "normal." In fact I think there is poll going on here in the forum and that is what the majority of DVDtalk uses (very slight majority last time I looked) and in theory we should be the leaders of this new HDTV - DVD trend.

I never said the picture was not important at all. I said it was less important to me than the movie itself and in particular I like a great soundtrack. I don't like bad transfers with good audio. The Highlander disc (old one) had a THX certified soundtrack and a horrid transfer. I did not enjoy that. I prefer a good picture as much as anyone, but I, like most, will not go out of my way or my pocket for higher resolution for higher resolution's sake.

By your thought process no one would buy a digital camera because they cannot equal the quality of film, yet film is nearly dead. Even those really badass digital cameras that cost 900 bucks don't sell well compared to the sub 50 buck 1 megapixal variety - sharper picture, eyes can see the difference yet they do not change.

Laserdisc had uncompressed audio, so there are disc with great audio if compression is your basis. Still not as good as new technology can do, but pretty decent. As for DVD-A and SACD - if they ever come to a reasonable price point count me in, but since I listen to music mostly in my diesel pickup, I doubt the subtle difference would help much over the engine roar.

You are a technology guy, and I am fine with that. I am to a certain extent, but I have grown out of it. I stopped trying to tell my friends how great this and that was and how something was better than this other thing. I just enjoy things for what they are now. If I like a movie, the picture can be a little blurry and I can still enjoy it, so what if it is only in 2.0 not 5.1 sound - its just a movie (pretty much how 99% of the country feels when it comes down to it).

Oh, and your comment about kids, they are the ones that drive technology, not the people that can afford it. Most "kids" can out tech their parents by the time they want a computer or tv or dvd player.

Oh, I also read that by 2008 40% of households will own an HDTV - 3 years from now the majority will still not have converted according to analysts. It may not be niche, but it will not be mainstream. It will be for videophiles, tech geeks, and those with cash to burn.

In conclusion, I will not argue that HDTV is not great. It looks great, I like the move to 16x9 and digital technology. Yes the prices are coming down. Yes eventually it will be the standard and most will own it including me (maybe sooner rather than later). However, DVDs are here to stay for quite some time and we are going to continue to get lots of special features and good stuff on the regular DVD disc. The market saturation is very good for DVD and getting better every day. HD-DVD in some form will survive and probably flourish years from now 2010+ as people replace tvs and prices plumet. I just think you are WAY overzealous about the speed at which people will change.

nightmaster

Let 'em. Then we would see how they like it when those HD SE releases are sitting on the shelves in the early stages because the mainstream hasn't ran out and plunked down $1000 for the hardware. The change needs to be progressive.....had this been done with laserdisc it may well have caught on and been the one to do the damage to VHS that DVD came along years later to do.

chipmac

I don't know the answer to my question but perhaps someone else does. When the recent Indiana Jones and Star Wars box sets were released were they rereleased on VHS? This could be a telling sign of the same transition to HD DVD. If they didn't release them again on tape it could mean that a disc won't get released again on SD DVD but only HD DVD in the same manner. I agree that SD DVD will hang in there but I don't see studios spending time and effort to upgrade already released SD DVDs when they're concentrating on HD DVD.

hifisapien

I will try to make this breif. An HDTV monitor/TV purchase RIGHT NOW is probably the single greatest value/buy in the entire home entertainment arena. It is really really foolish IMHO to still not have one yet. They are so good and so inexpensive when you consider the hours and hours of sheer pleasure they provide to do without. I stated you can buy a good one for under $1000, and thats not the cheapest, there are some HDTV sets selling under $400! I know I saw them at K mart and Walmart. One thing that I didnt know before I bought my HDTV is how much they improve DVDs. I was under the mistaken impression that in order to see any benefit with an HDTV set you needed a HDTV signal so DVDs would look roughtly the same on HDTV as the they do on SDTV. W R O N G!!! If you are into DVD you need a HDTV to see them. The improved DVD display is called EDTV. With an anamorphic DVD and progressive scanning you end up with a picture much better than SDTV but less than HDTV. Why stick with SDTV when you can have EDTV NOW and with the DVDS you already own and rent? It makes no sense to wait. Get a HDTV immediately if you like DVDs. The only regret you might have after buying a HDTV is for waiting so long. It really is a no brainer.....I havent met a single HDTV owner that has regretted switching or god forbid went back to SDTV. If your issue is cost, trust me THEY ARE BARGAINS AND WELL WORTH THE CURRENT PRICES. P.S I am not a "techie". To me the equipment is nothing more than a portal to the arts. I love music and movies not amplifiers speakers and TV set hardware. I buy that stuff only to get the art. The music and movies are the message, the speakers and TVs are just the messengers....

hifisapien

I yeah I forgot to mention regarding the audio. I am praying they do better than Dolby digital and DTS with HD-DVD. What I would like is either DSD (like SACDs have) or Uncompressed PCM ( like DVD-Audio) in both in 5.1/6.1/7.1 format. I know it will take more bandwidth and storage but if HD-DVD wants to offer something good that that HDTV broadcasts dont offer, this would be a killer specification/feature. I still cant believe we are stuck with Dolby digital for HDTV broadcasts. It just shows how much things have changed in the 10 years or so since the HDTV standards were being formed.

Brian Shannon

http://www.dvdtalk.com/features/002948.html

nightmaster

Yeah, but not forever. It was a very fast downward spiral in DVD hardware as opposed to VHS hardware, and HD will do the same in a few years; 2008 seems like a good time to see the prices drop if HD hits the streets smoothly. My guess is they will at some point be priced about the same as what the average joe walks into Walmart and pays for DVD today.

speedyray

I don't think they did, but the VHS market is nearly dead, why would most people that still rely on VHS buy a box set of tapes that have been available for some time. 13 million DVD players were sold in the first half of 2004 and I bet at least 13 million were sold in the second half. The ultimate Star Wars set coming out when the Episode III drops will be on DVD, you can count on that. It may be on HD as well, but they will sell it to the DVD market, because there are going to be plently that do not upgrade. At some point, years from now it may be the case that only a limited number of DVD will be released and most will be HD, but it will be a very long gradual shift - probably slower than VHS to DVD since the difference in quality/features will be less dramatic. Backwards compatability and HDTV may speed the shift, but that is still yet to be seen as we are 4 years into HD sets and they are just now starting to gain any real momentum.

chipmac

But my point is that VHS isn't dead to many people. Sure DVD players have sold like crazy the last two years but many people still haven't upgraded to a DVD and rely on VHS. If the studios wanted to they could have made more money buy rereleasing these films on VHS again but they didn't. The same could happen with scheduled SE rereleases for DVD. They might decide to only release HD DVD versions of these SEs.

Really there are too many indicators that it could go either way. On one hand there's money to be made in SD DVD for people that won't or don't upgrade to the new formats. On the other hand we keep hearing that studios are anxious to move to the new formats for reasons like copy protection and higher profit margins.

Josh-da-man

The original question -- With HD DVD's coming so soon, will companies forgo SE's on DVD? -- is a valid one.

I could certainly see studios with a stake in hardware, like Sony, wanting to push the format. And making the standard DVDs less desirable is certainly one way to coerce consumers into adopting the new format.

Plus, we're gearing up for a format war, so each format -- HD-DVD and BluRay -- would want to seize upon any market advantage they can get.

WestEndRiot

$1000 is inexpensive? you wanna buy me one? have it delivered saturday after 10am.

in all seriousness, the only foolish thing here is the rationale for your arguement. the cost of a HDTV is a relative factor...relative to the set's previous cost and relative to the buyer's spending ability. sure, they are less expensive than they were 2 years ago but for the average working family $1000 is a lot to spend on a television, regardless of its spectacular picture. you're right, you can buy an Advent HDTV for somewhere in the neighborhood of $400 but you wouldn't be getting a very good one. and the fact that both kmart and walmart stock them is a bit of a non-issue since we all know how concerned both are with product quality.

it may be foolish for some people to not upgrade but only those who can afford it. i, and i suspect many others, cannot and therefore i'll be sticking with standard dvd and tv for the time being. the studios know this and i would look for most HD-DVDs to be bare bones at least until one of the formats pulls ahead and becomes the standard.

bboisvert

Not everyone has the same opinions you do... for example, if you were to interview 100 random people on the street and show them the prices for HDTVs, how may would categorize them as 'inexpensive' (as you are doing)?

And, while I enjoy my HDTV very much, the 'hours and hours of sheer pleasure' is a bit of an overstatement. I think that the first complaint most HDTV adopters have is the lack of quality content available, either via cable or sat. Until more stations start delivering more HD content, and until HD-DVD/Blu-ray becomes a consumer reality, I hardly think you can blame people for sitting on the fence or waiting for prices to drop further.

When I first got my set, I watched nature programs on Discovery HD and PBS-HD for hours. I watched Korean sumo wrestling. Hell, I watched golf. All to see the pretty pictures. And it was impressive. But, after a while, I really starting itching for content that actually interested me. For the most part, I'm still waiting.

HDTV is a great thing. But is isn't worth the cost yet for most people.


(And to answer the original poster's question... No, I don't believe that studios will hold back standard DVD content in favor of HD-DVD. Not for quite a long time -- 5+ years at least. The market for HD-DVD is going to be niche for a loooong time, and they aren't going to jeopardize current revenue in the hopes of encouraging upgrades. They'll get more money by continuing to release in DVD format and letting HD upgrades happen at a natural pace.)

Fok

I just hope that the new players are backwards compatible. I don't think the studio's will hold off from releasing SE's, we all know that they're greedy.