This is kind of off-topic but I don't think LOTR: EEs are double dips fora number of reasons, only one of which is all the great extra material. The main reason is that they announced the EEs when they announced the other versions. They told you "buy the first one if you want, but the fancy one is coming a few months later, so you might want to wait." A "double-dip" has the taint of the studio selling you something and then breaking out a fancier edition later to sell it to you again. Panic Room definitely is a double-dip.

I'm disappointed they didn't mention the Superbit edition of Spider-Man 2 as part of the Top 20 list. Though they dispense with the commentary tracks on the Superbit edition, they used the extra data storage space to get VASTLY better picture quality and that awesome DTS sound track.

I think I'm the only geek who actually saved that sticker on the shrink-wrap of Clerks X....that set was excellent, #&@%ing marketing aside.

The write-up could have mentioned that Superbit was available (and fullscreen and the SE/gift)....

I scored three of the top 20 today....only cost me two dozen anime trade-ins at Amoeba Hollywood

First, admittedly it was a cheap shot on my part, point taken.

However, as you mentioned it was in with the "mainstream" lists. I don't think it is right that a woman/kid/parent surfing in to a seemingly innocent header of "DVDTalk's Top DVDs of 2004" need to see adult theme specific links particularly with the knowledge that you might branch out into even more categories next year. A general link to the adult DVD section should be enough.

Not to pick on this one replier, but this does get down to the heart of the matter to me.

As my Granddad would say ... you don't put a 50 dollar saddle on a 10 dollar horse. Additional content matters little if the whole reason you were interested in the first place (the movie) isn't worth future viewings or even one viewing.

My point for writing is that many people do pay attention to DVDTalk as a source for information. All I'm questioning is how about some thought leadership rather than knee-jerk praise of uber editions of mediocre films or second/third/fourth dips of mediocre films?

To be fair, what natevines said does not represent the decision making process. Just because something has more discs didn't guarantee it a higher slot.

Again, for the consensus top 20 the number 1 factor in something getting on the list was that more of the reviewers had seen it. I put DVDs like "How's Your News?" "Bus 174" and "Wildboyz" on my ballot but enough reviewers simply hadn't seen it. Similarly, I don't care about Star Wars or the Matrix but in a consensus environment where people vote, that's the way it works. Granted, I should have done my own top 10 list but this year I just didn't have time. Remember, this is all just a guide. You should enjoy the lists, debate them, etc... but don't look at them as some sort of bible that must reflect your opinions exactly.

I Agree, and also don't forget what went into getting "Freaks and Geeks" and "Popular" released as well.

The lists are fun and all, but I really would've liked to have seen each reviewer's personal top ten lists, even with minimum or no comments.

I seriously doubt that was anyone's approach. Speaking for my own Top 10 list, if I posted the number of hours I spent watching TV box sets this month in preparation for the list, you probably wouldn't even believe me. The process of splitting hairs and choosing the "best" among all the candidates was quite difficult and somewhat painful as I left off some personal favorites that sadly didn't measure up. I can assure you there was nothing "knee-jerk" about any of it. While I cannot speak for others, I'd be surprised if the other reviewers didn't go through a similar process. It is folly to assume that because you do not agree with a selection, it was made in a knee-jerk fashion.

As for the Top 20, the final list does not represent my opinions as an individual (I personally wouldn't have the uber collections of The Matrix or Star Wars in my Top 10), but it does contain my input, as it does the input of the others on the review staff. I'm disappointed with some choices and thrilled with others. None of us will agree with the list in its entirety, but as a concensus list, I cannot complain. And speaking on a broad scale, the fact that the list represents each of the reviewers' unique styles and opinions in some way makes it more likely that the list as a whole will have value to a broader audience.

The whole thing is all in good fun, and we cannot please everyone, nor should we attempt to. However, as I said before, it is not wise to presume just because you disagree with an opinion that it was made in a knee-jerk manner. Agree or disagree with the final result, people put a lot of thought and effort into this.

das

Exactly!

If I was publishing a list, I'd toss in a couple "where did THAT come from" picks just for fun. Maybe that is why EW left off Return of the King EE but included Crazy People. Mix it up a little! It's just a list and God won't kill a kitten over it.

Democracy's a bitch, ain't it?

I think the top 20 is a good representation of some of the best DVDs of the year, not the best films or best DVD treatment for new films. Just best DVD releases of 2004.....whether it's Star Wars on DVD for the first time, or Dawn of the Dead for the fifth time, the list is only the reviewers' consensus for the coolest DVDs of 2004. I'd love to see an anime on there (Tokyo Godfathers) just like Gil would like Bus 174 to get its due....but enough reviewers thought these titles were good enough for the nod, and looking at it, I'd be happy to have every one in my collection (though if I start buying Criterion, I'd go broke).

Really though, I think only a top 100 would make everyone happy....but that would be insane.

While I can understand with your comments, I still disagree with them. Adult reviews have only been on the website a few years (having previously been off limits) but they seem popular with a lot of consumers and readers alike. If a parent has a moral qualm with reading them, they are free to bypass the link to the adult themed lists but segregating them any further hardly seems fair considering the limits we place on such reviews (unlike some websites, DVD Talk doesn't show graphic stills from the movies, for example). As far as kids reading them, let's be open and honest about it; kids on a computer are far less likely to want to read text about a porno when they can easily download the movie (if so inclined) or graphic pictures that'd make even a jaded old porn hound like me wince.

While placing the lists together on the front page/email/other means of advertising them makes sense, I just thought the fact that a separate list of Asian oriented (pun intended) material wasn't a bad idea. If I take what you're now saying as a call to leave off the adult lists altogether, referring folks to the adult section of the website, I'd be opposed to that too. If we were to have extensive lists like "reviews for small children", "hey kids, read my top ten list", or any number of other related themes, I'd be in agreement but the focus of DVD Talk has long been for adults to read up on DVDs and related topics.

I'm sure that many parents enjoy porn too (most of my friends have kids and seem to enjoy borrowing my better stuff all too often) but I'd be in agreement on a future upgrade where paying a certain amount of money allowed you to view a "kid friendly" version of the website, with no adult ads, no adult reviews or forum, and the like. Otherwise, exercising restraint and simply not clicking such parts of the website seems like a good alternative.

Thanks for clarifying your comments though. I always encourage people to speak their mind (and intelligent people can agree to disagree). Until then, I hope others will give feedback on the lists, particularly well reasoned feedback, as that's what helps us improve.

Would ya'll PLEASE quit teasing me about a Good Burger CC?