Well, I have said it before, and I will say it again. Very few will upgrade. This is the next LaserDisc. I think it will be far more successful than LD, but still never reach the masses. It has some chance - way down the road when players are backwards compatable and very cheap. Hell, it will still be a decade before the majority of America has HD sets. Yeah, they are better - but hell, lots of things are better and fail.

I will personnally get a few movies I really love upgraded, and then buy things I do not already own on DVD in HD if the price is right. Cheap disc is more important than spotless presentation in many instances for me. I enjoy movies and I enjoy technology, but it does not have to be perfect for me to gain enjoyment from it. I still watch LD and DVDs are much cleaner than LD. I still watch VHS on a rare occasion and though rough, it is tolerable under certain circumstances. That said, even if it is better, Joe 6 Pack will be like damn that is expensive - give me the cheap one.

Even if I had never bought the first disc, I just don't see this replacing DVD. Windows in general sucks. There are better alternatives to it, but as I speak millions are using Windows 95/98/ME. Windows - like DVD is part of society. No matter how Good Macs, Unix or Linux systems are, they remain niche markets. Niche markets can be strong - millions even - but they still are niche markets. Has BB and Hollywood said they were going to buy into HD and stock them in mass - they are still trying to phase out VHS.

I have a question:

How many of you who ARE NOT embracing HD-DVD/BlueRay have DVD collections of over 100?

...I'm willing to bet that most of you who have massive DVD collections are cringing at the thought of having to upgrade your collections to HD-DVD. However, we already know that the new HD players WILL allow you to play your beloved DVD discs...

The fact of the matter is that you do not have to repurchase anything if you don't want to...

If you don't want to upgrade or can't afford it... fine, don't. Nobody's making you. But for the rest of us who have seen HD and can appreciate it, we're looking forward to it. Rest assured, the rest of you will too...

Peace.

Perhaps so, but I think affordability won't be an issue. J6P can stroll into Walmart today and buy a 32" HDTV for $650. It's not the best TV (nor the best price for it), but it's at least within shouting distance of many family budgets. And the prices are only coming down.

It won't be long before every television available for sale will be HD-capable, and with digital cable, satellite, and over-the-air HD channels, it won't be long before most folks have access to HD programming.

Once they see it, trust me... regular ol' DVD will look to be severely lacking.

And I suspect they'll go through much the same thought process as I: formerly, I'd get home in the evening and peruse my DVD collection for a movie to watch. Now, I check the HD movie channels and network schedules first, and then move to the DVD collection.

I'm still not sure I understand that reasoning. Again bear in mind that I'm not a technical expert but even considering that a regular DVD only has a resolution of 480p, there are already DVD players on the market that can upconvert to 780p or 1080i if your tv can support it. So the technology to make your regular ol' DVD look better already exists.

You're right that there are DVD players that will "upconvert" to 1080i, some of which will even do so via the component outputs (most only via HDMI or DVI). Unfortunately, the improvements are only slight even in the best circumstances. It does not look like HDTV.

That said, I do plan to get the new Panny with the Faroudja chipset that upconverts to 1080i via the HDMI output! It's been put through it's paces on the AVS Forum, and seems to be a fantastic player. But it does not produce an image comparable to HD. Some reviewers even prefer 480P via the components to upsampled 1080i via HDMI.

This brings to mind a question... will Blu-ray or HD-DVD be capable of outputting 1080P?

BTW, this thread should answer any questions you may have regarding "upsampling" DVD players: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=423609

I remember an article posted here recently saying that HD-DVD/Blu-ray players should drop to around $500 by late 2006. Even then, it would take at least another year or two beyond THAT for the players to drop into my price range. Couple that with still-expensive HDTVs, which I understand are falling, and I'll stand pat.

Thank heavens for backwards compatibility. First I'm going to wait until they settle the format wars and decide on one standard HD-DVD format. Then I'll probably wait until prices come down to a reasonable level and any initial bugs are resolved (inevitable with all first generation models). Then I'll buy a HD-DVD player for the living room (where my HDTV is). After that I'll replace the other players in the house and start upgrading little by little (probably starting with big blockbuster-type movies and epics where visuals are magnificent like Star Wars, Lawrence of Arabia, etc.). Frankly, the advent of HD-DVD has never really scared me much. And I seriously doubt the format is going to explode and take over the way DVD overwhelmed VHS. It will be a slower growth format. Just look at SACD and DVD Audio for an example. Despite superior sound quality, people are not running out in droves to replace their CD collections or abandon CD as a medium. CD still rules and will for awhile. HD-DVD will be the same. Keep in mind that statistically the average household in the U.S. just got their first DVD player within the last 2-3 years.

Do we really already know this?, I thought it wasn't a done deal yet on backwards compatibility..certainly not for Blu-Ray.

My thought isn't so much what looks better, but rather how many of the lesser known films that I favor will ever make it to HD and how long.. my guess is you will be in for along wait if ever for the smaller films..there is very little in the way of new films I would really want to collect they are mostly bad remakes anyways. I can think of hundreds of titles that I want that still arn't and may never be be brought over to DVD..HD will forget some more..I have a feeling I will be glad I hung on to allot of my collection because I just don't see the studios putting much effort into older titles as they will newer ones.

I for one am not willing to wait another 5-10 yrs to get all these movies again. I'll keep my DVDs instead.

I'm a bit familiar with this techy stuff (although it bores me to tears) because I did weeks of reading on AVS before I bought my Panny DLP. I also bought the LG upconverting player since at this point in the game of changing technologies it didn't make mush sense to me to spend mucho bucks on a DVD player.

I guess my point is that upconverting players are fairly new and that the technology will improve. Who knows maybe in a year or two, there will be players out there that will do a fantastic job at upconverting. Not to mention that it won't matter if HDDVD can output at 1080p or more if your tv can't support it. And I'm not about to buy another tv anytime soon just because I'm limited to 1080i.

But then again I'm not PQ obsessed. If it looks good to me that's all that matters. When I read forums like AVS I get the feeling that people there get hard-ons because of the gear itself and not because of the actual movies.

My path will be much like joliom's. I'm not going to get caught up in another format war, unless the cost of players is so slight that the number of available movies justifies the expense.

I've slowly built my DVD collection over the last 5 years, and I plan to build my HD DVD/Blu-ray collection just as slowly. I'm not the sort that must have every movie... I rarely blind-buy and never get a film that I don't expect to watch 2-3 times year, and none that I won't be watching within a week or two after the purchase. I'm goddam picky about the films I put in my collection, and constantly rotate out ones that have fallen out of personal favor via trades or sales. I've probably owned about 1,000 DVDs since I started collecting, but only have around 4-500 at any given time. And, frankly, there's about 100 that I may not watch again until they come out on HD-whatever!

As for the topic of this thread, my DVD buying might be slightly attenuated given the new formats on the horizon, but I've always purchased fewer discs than most of you. Netflix did more in terms of slowing down my purchases than this eventuality. I think the only folks who should even consider "holding off" are those with scads of unwatched DVDs, particularly if one doesn't plan to view those films more than once in the coming year. But that advice would be sound whether or not HD was coming round the bend.

Probably fodder for another thread, but if my monitor will display 1080i, shouldn't it be able to display 1080p?

No because I like mostly old TV shows, so I don't plan on ever going HD, it would be a waste for anyone who likes fullscreen shows. However, for widescreen movie fans...Get ready to dig deep into your pockets

In discussion of older films on both formats as well as upconverting standard dvd:

I'm not an expect on this either but I think the quality of older films is more a factor of the condition of the film print being used. If correctly restored, or preserved if possible, they will look better in 1080i b/c you are still getting more resolution. Remember the film negative itself has more information than 1080 lines. Maybe around 3-4 times for 35mm? I don't remember the actual figures but you still lose a lot with HD as well.

Now my HDTV (Toshiba 50H81) looks better to me using 480i over 480p b/c if I use 480P the TV upconverts it to 540P! On my TV the 540P looks pretty crappy compared to 480i. Go Figure! I am not capable of upconverting to a higher resolution yet b/c I have no dvi input. When you do scale to higher resolutions you have to remember you still using the same information on the dvd disc, which would still be half of what is available on a HD format. I am also somewhat suspect about where the quality is increasing when upscaling. If it does in fact look better as many have said, is the quality increased b/c of the player scaling itself or the DVI input?

I have to be honest when I say that I think the people that are going to love this new format will be those of with larger screens. In all honesty I wouldn't care about this format one way or another if I was only using my bedroom's 28 inch TV. The difference in quality is more noticable as your TV size increases. Bigger set and more resolution will equal less viewable scan lines! Go into Best Buy and see how close you can stand to a HDTV playing HD material. Now stand that close to a HDTV playing dvd and you will see the difference.

Im not going to stop buying because HD will be stupidly expensive at first and first generation products are always iffy so ill wait for the 2nd or 3rd generation to come out.

I'll also wait till either Blu Ray or HD-DVD wins. until then, ill continue to enjoy my dvds

I was stunned when news of the HD-DVD format to replace current DVDs. After 5 years, Ive collected a modest DVD collection and the idea of replacing my DVDs really makes me angry. This new development forces me to downsize my DVD purchases for the next year. Also, the drop of standard TVs and rise in new flat LCD TVs will probably push the sale of HD-DVDs.

I will probably upgrade to HD-DVD but only purchase select titles (Boxoffice Hits, Epic Pictures & Personal Favorites). I believe that it will take a while for old TV shows and films to appear in this new format. They would probably start out with some recent films (2000 to present).

Seriously, nobody needs to run to the panic room over all this. DVD's hit the market in 1997 and here we are in 2004 and I still haven't seen movies like The African Queen, Lifeboat, Sergeant York, King Kong, etc. yet. And those are all award-winning classics. There will be plenty of time to gradually transition. And a lot of movies won't even look all that much better anyway. I mean, is some old Chaplin film from 1924 going to suddenly burst out of my HDTV screen glistening with perfect clarity just cause it's encoded onto an HD-DVD disc? Doubtful. Just do what you already do now: buy DVD's that strike your fancy, upgrade the ones that you aren't happy with, and don't have an anxiety attack. DVD will not be dead within a year or two of HD-DVD's arrival. And unless you have an HDTV in every room in your house, it probably isn't even necessary to rush to replace all your players until you have amassed enough HD-DVD's to make it practical. As for the possibility that these new formats will not turn out to be backwards compatible afterall, remember, all these corporations are going to proceed cautiously with HD-DVD. There is way too much money being made with standard DVD to risk sending the general public into a tailspin getting hysterical that their investments are now all obsolete. They're making billions right now, so they don't want to upset that. These formats will definitely be backwards compatible. If they aren't, all hell would break loose and HD-DVD would die at the starting gates. There's no way they will not be backwards compatible.

Frankly I wouldn't care if DVDs had VHS-like audovisual quality. I have 300 DVDs and I watch them all on an old-ass 20" TV with the tinny internal speakers. Obviously I can afford a much nicer set but I just don't care enough to get one. Plus I plan to switch apartments many times over the next two decades (penthouse condo is the goal), so it's just not practical to have a big TV.

The reasons I adopted DVD at all are:
(1) non-linear digital format
(2) extra features
(3) popularity of the medium

This third one is by far the most important for me, because it means that studios have an incentive to to release non-mainstream fare that wouldn't make sense with VHS, which unless I'm mistaken was a rental-driven market. Now, almost everything I care to see is out on DVD or will be in the next few years. Given that I don't much care about audiovisual quality, I see no reason in the world to upgrade.

I am staying out of this debate because it reminds me way too much of the VHS/DVD debate in 1997 when I actively was a part of the Stereo Review forums. Lots of people insisted DVD would never overtake VHS and would be a niche format, often for the same reasons given here for why HD-DVD/Blu-Ray will fail, and look what happened. Proves no one can predict the future.

When I bought my 1st DVD player in early 1997 for $799, I would never have thought in the entire lifespan of the product that a DVD player with far better features could be found now for under $20. Same thing when I bought my "budget" 36" TV for $1299 a few years ago when they are now $399. Technology can drop in price very quickly especially now that the DVD format has allowed all these el cheapo Asian manufacturers to make their way into US stores. Once these manufacturers have established their relationships with Walmart, Best Buy, etc., they have a major customer already in place for cheap HD-DVD players so who knows how low the price can go.

I like the reasoning, and yeah, me and a lot of others may very well eat our words.

Oh, I thought of one more thing that makes me say it will not replace DVD - Fullscreen DVD sales. J6P still has not got the hint about OAR, why does everyone think they are that worried about image quality. Just because us obsessive geeks are does not mean they will even care when they see the difference.

raytrade,

You sound like me. I say let's grab some other guys who did the same and have a Kool-Aid party.

speedyray,

Cheap widescreen televisions are the answer to more widescreen media sales.

HD-DVD's success is obviously going to be the price. I suspect around $29.99 for a title. Only the high-action, high-effects, and highly popular titles will come out first--just like DVD did, and we'll have a few not-so-popular ones just to make a fast buck.

Another point I would like to make, is that most of our titles wouldn't look better on HD-DVD anyway. We're talking maybe films made since 2000 and later qualify. I'm at the point now where I can almost tell you the year of the film just by looking at the image quality.

J6P might be an idiot when it comes to widescreen and image quality, but J169 (Joe 16 x 9) will probably buy a damn HD-DVD of a crappy made film, just because it's on HD-DVD, thinking he's getting a "better" version.

So, I see a lot of room for unloading a crock of shit titles on HD-DVD that didn't need to be. What's scary, is that we will have an all-new plethora of crap added to the HD-DVD, because we have so much more room now. This is a marketing company's dream, and I hope that HD-DVD won't become a cryptic maze of "enter here" and "Press Menu Here" requirements, just to see the damn movie.

Also, I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up, but HD-DVD has the capacity to easily make WS and FS on the same side with little reduction in quality. The compression will still be better than a current DVD, so J6P and J169 can enjoy both versions, regardless of the television of choice.

And those are my thoughts this morning.

I'm very happy with the quality of the picture on the movies I own. I see no reason to upgrade them. While I certainly like and marvel at the higher picture quality on DVD, I don't get obsessed over every little speck of dust or grain I spot. And to be honest, I hardly ever notice the dreaded edge enhancement.

I agree and I think that THIS holiday season will mark the turning point for mass adoption of HDTV in to the mainstream market. Look at it this way: As prices on the HDTVs come down, there will be less and less financial benefit in manufacturing and marketing a SDTV when the difference in price is small. The same will end up being true of the players. At first the standard early adopters will be out. As time passes, prices will come down and those cheap DVD players will be replaced with cheap HDDVD players much the same way CD players (for the most part) were supplantd by the DVD player that can do both. Even now, inexpensive portable DVD drives are getting better and cheaper, much like portable CD players got cheap once the DVD player supplanted the CD player.

Noone will need to replace their entire collection. I will replace certain films in my collection, but not most of them. At first, I am sure the discs will be a more premium price, but as soon as the prices align with standard DVD pricing, then all my future purchases will be in the "SUpersized" format.

WRONG!

It all depends on how the digital transfer of the film was handled. If we took the 1978 Star Wars and compared it on DVD and a transfer made for HD, you would DEFINITELY notice the difference. If the transfer was originally created for 480P then you will notice no difference.