Burning Question about C3PO & R2
 

Hello all, I've been a lurker here forever, and love reading the forums. I have a question however that finally made me register an post...

OK...If C3PO was built by Anakin on Tattooine, and he lived in the underground house when Schmi married that guy, along with Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru...how come in ANH, he absolutely does not recognize anything? And R2 was there too in Episodes 1 and 2.

Now I remember that was mention of a memory wipe by Owen in ANH, but it would seem that would also erase their personalities too, wouldn't it? They seem to have the same personalities all the way through....

Of course there is also the question of R2 and his flying abilities, he never broke them out in Ep. 4,5, or 6.....

Don't get me wrong, I really do watch and enjoy them, and don't really get into the nit picking too much (well, I REALLY did hate the Greedo shoots first change, and while the new version is much better than the Spec. Ed. VHS...I still like the idea of Han just blasting him) but the droid question has been bothering me since Episode 1!

This question has been asked a lot, and presumably it'll be answered in Episode 3.

I think a memory wipe would remove whatever accumulated knowledge they've acquired, but keep intact their fundamental features. By Episode III, Threepio would know at least two very important things: Anakin has become Darth Vader and he has twin offspring.

I preferred the older version of Threepio's background (112 years old, multiple owners along the way). But Lucas decide to rewrite all that as a tie-in to Anakin's natural ability to make things.

You know, I just talked to an old friend of mine who is a real Star Wars buff....his explanation made a lot of sense.

Of course we know Luke and Leia are separated when they are born and sent to new "foster" parents to keep them a secret from Vader....Tony was saying that it should come out in Ep. III that there was a memory wipe to protect Luke and Leia...afterall if all the story through Ep. III is in their memory, it could come out and land in the wrong hands...

Like I said, it seems to make a lot of sense, I guess we'll see....

I still think R2 has kept his memories but C3PO had his erased because R2 seems to know a lot more C3PO in the original trilogy.

I agree with this. R2 seems to know a lot - even where the settlements on Tatooine are.

R2's Flying Ability
 

I had read somewhere (force.net?) a while back that the reason R2 doesn't fly in IV, V, and VI is that his little rockets are broken. Somewhere in the Star Wars universe, they came across warranty information for R2 units (not sure how many years) so it implied that his little flying rockets broke out of warranty and nobody ever bothered to get them fixed. I wonder what hourly labor was back then?!?

Sounds like a Steve Sansweet response. He has an answer for everything, regardless of how tough the question is. For instance, when asked about the "error" concerning Han's missing arm binders when he is thawed out in ROTJ, Sansweet says it is not a mistake. The binders just happened to be made out of carbonite, so when the unfreezing process began, it dissolved away, too.

How convenient.

I think Lucas said that they’re memories are erased. In the second half they have no recollection of the first half.

yes, they are gay lovers.


Wait, that wasn't the question? Memory wipe sounds like it is a must. Simple as that.

:lol: that wouldn't suprise me, have you heard 3PO's voice. Yeah probably a partial wipe will happen in Ep3

'human-cyborg relations' is the polite way of saying it. I wonder, does C-3P0 have a groinal attachment, and is its name Archie?

For the third, and hopefully final time, 3PO gets a total and complete memory wipe. That's why he doesn't recognize it.

is this the "attachment" you were looking for?

http://members.tripod.com/shpilz/c3p0obsenittya.jpg

face it, 3pO is a sister

then shouldn't Vader be all weepy when he sees the droids in the OT all those years later?

Luca$ and his re-writes. bah!

Ok, I can buy the memory wipe of C3PO and it's a toss up as to whether R2 had his memory wiped, but why does Obi-Wan not recognize R2 in ANH? I forget the exact wording, but it was something like "I don't ever remember having a droid"

Do you get all weapy for your old toaster or microwave after you see it years later shattered into tons of pieces?

Besides that, C3po seems like a generic human-relations driod when you look at the others in the star wars universe. His was just old and rusted till they gave him a shinny paint job.


as for obi's comments. It was "funny I don't remember owning a droid". And in reality he never did own a droid. Well he may have worked with R4-G9 as his droid for his star fighter, but other then that he never "OWNED" a droid. Another one of his half truths. And have you've seen those R2 units? They all look a like. Hard to tell the difference, especially after 10 years.

In ANH, the Uncle tells Luke to get Units memories erased. So it sounds like a normal procedure when people buy new robots.

When does Vader see the droids in the OT? On Bespin 3PO is in pieces and R2-D2 is pretty much like any other R2 unit. Vader is interested in Luke and commonplace hardware like droids is irrelevant.

Well I assume that Obi-Wan hasn't seen the droids in 20 years. With there being millions of R2 and 3PO robots around the galaxy that look the same it is pretty easy to not recognize them. His memory might not be as sharp as it was when he was young either. In Ep 1 & 2, Obiwan doesn't really spend a lot of time with the robots so he wouldn't be familiar with them as Padme would be. As far as 'owning a droid', Ben never actually owns them so the line is still true.

Owen probably has owned hundreds of droids over the years so he might not remember 3PO. Remember, 3PO was grey in AOTC but gold in ANH so Owen might not recognize him. With millions of 3POs in the galaxy, Owen might remember owning a 3PO robot but not a C-3PO.

Threepio could still have had many owners in the past. Anakin built him but they didn't say from scratch. 3PO does have parts that are definatly from a protocol droid so Anakin might have found protocol droid in parts in a junk yard and assembled him.

As far as we know R2 did have his memory wiped out as well. Leia might have programmed where Ben was and what Ben would look like (as well as the cover story of a previous owner). So R2 is just trying to complete his mission and does not recognize stuff in ANH. As shown in TPM & AOTC, R2 doen't really see much of Tatooine so he can't be running around just on memory.

Leia told Kenobi to get R2 to her father... so why didnt they just give R2 to Vader and be done with it? ;)

YES, IN THE RADIO DRAMA, IT'S MADE CLEAR THAT lEIA GIVES r2 THE MESSAGE AS WELL AS THE COORDINATES OF HIS WHEREABOUTS.

Edit, sorry about the caps lock, but I'm not retyping all that

That would make sense, cause how lucky would it be that they were caught right above Tatooine?

ROFL... My thoughts exactly.
Man Ep 3 is gonna have A LOT of gaps to fill. Is Ep 3 gonna be a 6 hour epic with an Intermission or maybe Kill Darth vol 1 and Kill Darth vol 2? Sheesh.

Maybe R2 had a backup of his memory...ever think of that ? He could fit an extra harddrive in that body of his :) Or a backup system just like the Terminator...its possible

[James Earl Jones Voice]OH my God!!! Boba Fett!!! CHECK THIS OUT!!! I USED TO OWN THAT DROID!!![/James Earl Jones Voice]

Leia’s “father” in this case is actually her step father who is a senator in Alderaan (there’s still an imperial senate at that point before the Emperor disbands it early in ANH). In ep III Obi Wan puts baby Luke in Tatooine and baby Leia in Alderaan. He probably separates them because if they were together maybe Vader would more likely be able to sense them. So to hide them better he had to separate them.

As for Owen, Obi Wan, and Vader not recognizing the droids, there are loads and loads of them around. Vader did not even have sentimental feelings towards Obi Wan, much less common droids.

Also, in Ep I and II, Obi Wan never formed any sort of bond with either of the Droids.

One thing I don’t get, why did it take 10 whole years for Anakin to go back for his mom!! With his new found position as a Jedi in training, you’d think he’d try to pull some strings to get some Junk dealer to release his mom!!

Also, if there's a memory wipe with C3PO and R2D2, how would the two robots remember each other, much less have a relationship together?

They must have had a second "introduction" to each other sometime, somewhere offscreen between Episodes III and IV.

:lol:

who says ALL their memory was wiped? Even if it did, then they likely had it wiped together, so they got reintroduced together.

In the SW universe, droids typically have memory wipes yearly or so (think...Win98). This was discussed to death in SW books dealing with these 2 droids and Whistler, a modified R2 unit belonging to another jedi x-wing pilot. Threepio would've had several over time as he was passed around, or was he? Tough to tell about Artoo since all he does is beep, but neither of them had wipes after Luke owned them. Of course, Eps 1-2 destroy all of this and make everything not make sense. We'll see what #3 does to this particular inconsistency.

The reason that I dont think R2 and 3P0 dont get memory wipes? A bunch actually:

1) That would esseintaly "kill" two main characters. In his bad guys/good guys black and white universe, it's very unlikely that Lucas would do that.

2) The story is told from the point of view of the droids. They're the greek chorus commentating on the events unfolding around them, so to speak. To reset them to zero half way through the story wouldnt work.

3) While there's no evidence to support that they did get a memory wipe, there's plenty to support them NOT getting one.

What R2 knows or doesnt know - well, is impossible to tell. Unless another character interprets or responds to his remarks, we dont know what he's saying. There were numerous instances when R2-D2 made lengthy comments that may actually recall events from the prequels era. For instance, he was quite talkitive when Obi-wan first showed up to rescue Luke in Jundland Wastes - but Kenobi had good reason to conceal any previous acquaintance. Artoo also demonstrated a burst of excitement (and perhaps recognition) upon sighting Anakin's lightsaber, when Kenobi presented it to Luke. And perhaps BECAUSE R2 knew who Kenobi was, R2 was exceptionaly eager to find the old Jedi. Luke says it himself "I've never seen such devotion in a droid before".

C-3PO, on the other hand, is a protocol droid whos primary function is keeping senstive and confidential information. In his early conversations with Luke, he was downright evasive about Leia. When Obi-Wan began to tell Luke a tale about Anakin and the Jedi, Threepio requested to be shut down, perhaps to avoid facing hurtful memories about his Maker's tragic fate.

Or what about 3P0's claim that his first job was programming binary load lifters, which are very similar to your vaporators. This type of work isnt consistent with what one would expect from a protocol droids - unless they were previously on a moisture farm (or with Annie's mom).

Or consider this - at the start of Return of the Jedi, 3PO tells R2 about the stories he'd heard about Jabba the Hutt. A diplomatic droid wouldnt be in a position to hear about Jabba's underworld dealings - but a droid built on Tatooine would be in a position for all kinds of gossip.

Why didnt 3P0 recognise Kenobi? He very well may NOT have met the Jedi - they didn't meet in The Phantom Menace, and dont appear to have met in Attack of the Clones. As for Tatooine - He did seem unfamiliar with the Dune Sea crash site. His prequel-era travels might have only covered the rockier, more inhabitable regions.

Well then why doesn't C-3PO recognize Owen and Aunt Beru. Or their home. He didn't say "Oh master Owen good to be back here" or "good to see you again" :p

At the very least 3PO got a memory wipe. As for the tales he heard about Jabba, he had over 20 years to gain that knowledge.

Also, he never tried to talk to Vader and is always scared of him. He doesn't say "Don't you remember you created me" :D

20 years is a LONG time, and people change a lot. 3P0 may not have recognized him. Or again he was smart enough not to start blabbing about the past. The droid certainly has tons of reasons to avoid discussing his history, even if he wasn't under orders or constrained by some kind of obligation to protect Luke and Leia.

They may not know the whole story. Artoo was Naboo royal property, and presumably stayed with Amidala. Both droids were wound up with Leia in the royal court. So R2 and 3P0 may have been absent during Anakin's turn into Vader. Or simply they dont recognize their former master under the mask.

On the other hand, if the droid indeed know Anakin's backstory, they weren't promted to reveal their knowledge. Neither droid ever got close to Vader. R2 was separated from Luke on Bespin and 3P0 spent all of his time backwards on chewie.

Vader, on the other hand, knows the two droids - but again he had no time to interact with them. He never got close to R2 and he may not have cared enough to expose himself to C-3P0 at Bespin. Remember - Vader did allow the dismembered 3P0 to be delivered to Chewbacca for repair. Seems kind of out of character of the Empire, donchaythink? Perhaps some kind of lingering feelings for the droid showing up in a small act of mercy?

Again, even if he saw them there are plenty of these droids around. Same reason Owen didn't recognize C-3PO after 20 years.

I believe Lucas did say the Droids get a memory wipe. Even if they didn't get a memory wipe in ep III they could have gotten one a few years after that.

If memory serves they weren't delivered, Chewbacca picked them up and basically kept them.

I just hope the tie it up properly and we're not left in the dark.

Well, someone had to take the 3P0 bits from the lounge where Chewie left them when Lando invited them to dinner all the way down to the prison cell. Chewie didnt have them with him at the time - so some Imperial (or perhaps Lando) had to put the droid in there.

I love the way we are all looking at the original trilogy and saying things like "why didn't Vader recognize C3PO?"

Now I'm not trying to be a party pooper, but the obvious reason (which has been stated hundreds of times before) is that the PREQUELS DIDN'T EXIST THEN!

The best we can do is look at the original trilogy and ask ourselves how it fits with the new trilogy. If Lucas can make it all fit nice and tidy, then good for him. But we honestly can't expect the decisions he made 25 years ago to match with his current "Ultimate Vision".

One way to think of it is instead of saying "Vader should have recognized the droid he built as a boy (who can forget their first dog after all?)" we should say "here's a plothole that Lucas needs to address".

Yeah I'm sure that's what Lucas was thinking 25 years ago when he wrote it