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One & Only Thread About Star Wars Trilogy Audio Quality

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One & Only Thread About Star Wars Trilogy Audio Quality

Old 09-20-04, 01:31 PM
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Star Wars audio changes?

Pretty extensive list of changes to Star Wars audio listed here:
Star Wars audio changes

This one sounds pretty bad:
"I have just viewed portions of the new Star Wars DVD and while I won't go into specifics over visual changes (I saw some that have not been covered yet) and I won't go into detail regarding all of the audio changes, as a fan of John Williams and his music for this movie, I feel I have to point out immediately an absolutely disgraceful, amateurish and negligent mixing issue. When the X-Wing fighters do their first dive towards the Death Star and the music builds up to a crescendo (1:11 into "The Battle of Yavin" on the RCA CDs) the music inexplicably is dialled down to silence during the grand charge. After a few moments it's brought back up a little, but the damage has been done and the scene and score continue to play out, only not as powerfully as they should.

This pivotal action moment has been dramatically destroyed and is certainly cause for a recall. The true unfortunate part about this is that it is merely the icing on the cake for a set that is riddled with amateurish, offensive, disturbing and incompetent sound work through out the entire picture. Had this one issue been all, that would be something else. Star Wars is a film I know very well, and while I've been critical of everything done to this film since 1981, I think it is now really fair to say that the movie I know of is quite dead.

There is more. You will not believe how bad this has gotten. I am not exaggerating. This is horrendous. Don't believe the reviews that are out there. I'll get to it all in a few days. "
Old 09-20-04, 01:40 PM
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Eh. Some people really LOOK for stuff not to like about Star Wars or reasons to complain about it. Wish I had that much free time.
Old 09-20-04, 01:49 PM
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My head hurts.
Old 09-20-04, 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by Kal-El
Eh. Some people really LOOK for stuff not to like about Star Wars or reasons to complain about it. Wish I had that much free time.
Agreed. Too much whining, not enough celebrating this release.
It hasn't even been offcially released yet.
Old 09-20-04, 02:02 PM
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Is this guy is comparing the music mixed into the film to the sountrack CDs? Is that is the case, there are always discrepancies, Always. Once the music is written, there are always changes done on the mixing stage by music editors (like me). Doesn anyone know if he is actually comparing them to the VHS tapes or the Laserdiscs or just the soundtrack CDs?
Old 09-20-04, 02:03 PM
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Here's the huge list from IndySolo in that posting (this is just for the first film):

Here is my list of sound changes. This is all in reference to changes made to the original film, except in a few instances I've pointed out differences also from the 1993 re-mix. Some of these new sounds obviously were heard in the 1997 re-mix, some are new to this mix. I've also included a few picture changes, but I feel they have been covered everywhere, while the sound mix has been virtually ignored. I have not noted any changes to specific SE shots (such as the destruction of Alderaan) since these shots are entirely new.


The 1954 recording of the Fox logo is still played though it sounds very distorted.

The new Lucasfilm logo is shown.

The “Star Wars” title card starts moving much too fast in relation to the original and can be seen “shifting gears” as it gets smaller and slows down.

New explosions can be heard over the opening shot.

The foley in this mix is very loud and in your face. Not subtle in anyway. Note Threepios footsteps. They've always been there, just never this loud.

The sound of the ship docking has some revised sound.

The shirts of the rebel troopers change colors. They were always gray before. In some shots now they are blue.

Vaders voice has been re-processed throughout the entire film to get him to match the sequels.

When Artoo opens the door to the escape pod, the button he pushes buzzes.

The laser blast that convinces Threepio to get in the escape pod was re-done in 1993. It is the same sound effect as a lamp blowing up in Raiders of the Lost Ark. This effect is also heard later in the movie.

When Vader is talking to the “Second Commander” (“Lord Vader, the battle station plans are not aboard this ship!”) the room in the background makes beeping noises. For fun, I’ll point out that this actor has the same voice as General Dodonna at the end of the movie. I suspect that the “Second Commander” is dubbed.

When Artoo is shot by the Jawas and falls over a tremendous bass impact has been mixed in.

The restraining bolt being installed makes a different sound.

Artoos arrival inside the sand crawler makes a new sound.

You now hear the sand crawler start up as it starts to move.

Later, you hear the sand crawler come to a stop. Threepio then says, “We’ve stopped” before telling Artoo to wake up.

The sound of Threepio rising from the oil bath has been augmented.

The lunch scene with Beru and Owen has some new foley (Beru’s chair makes a sound now). This is a quiet scene and you can literally hear the faders being brought down after every line of dialogue. Dailogue does not sound integrated in this scene.

Beru’s pronunciation of “father” has been re--done......again.

Luke’s land speeder can be seen in the long shot from the sand peoples point of view. Previously it was just a white speck moving.

The clanking of the sand persons gaffi stick is heard in this mix.

The Krayt Dragon sound that Ben uses to scare the sand people has been re-done. It almost sounds like a police siren at first. Definitely sounds artifical as opposed to the older, more organic sound.

The light sabers have not been re-processed to match the sound heard in the prequels.

In this mix it’s very clear that the bartender has been dubbed. It was not as obvious before.

When Luke is thrown into the table, it makes an all new sound effect.

When the stormtroopers walk into the bar they can be heard saying, “Undertand you had some trouble in here”. This is heard under Hans, “Looks like somebody’s beginning to take an interest in your handiwork.” line.

Alien sound effect is missing just before Threepios line, “I would much rather have gone with Master Luke than stay here with you.”

The music edit just after the Jabba scene is pretty bad. The music just starts. Also Bens line “If the ships as fast as he’s boasting we ought to do well” is different than the original mix. It sounds edited together here.

A quick dissolve is missing between the shot of the spy and the interior entrance of Docking Bay 94. It is a hard cut now.

The spy makes some more sounds before informing the stormtroopers of where Luke and Ben are.

There are new explosion sound effects in the shoot out in Docking Bay 94.

“You would prefer another target? A military target?” both sound crystal clear. “Then name the system!” is clearly from the old mix. Right in the middle of the line there is a quality shift. This happens through out the entire movie, but this may be the most obvious. It almost feels like a game, wondering if the next line is going to be the new clear dialogue or the older sounding dialogue. Obviously, there is a lack of consistency here and it’s jarring throughout the film. This is problably the worst feature of this new mix.

When the Falcon arrives at Alderaan there is some very deep bass. However, when the Falcon is captured by the Death Stars tractor beam, deep bass is missing that was heard in the 1993 mix. However there is a lot of sound of the cockpit shaking.

Also in the 1993 mix, the sound of the TIE fighter shooting at the Falcon could be heard. That’s not here nor was it in the original mix.

The PA systems line, “Close all outboard shields” sounds different.

Just before Han and company come out of the secret compartments, the two inspecting stormtroopers stop at the exit ramp and one of them says, “There’s no one here.”.

When Luke exits out of the Falcon and taps his stormtrooper helmet, static can be heard.

The dialogue keeps changing during the command office scene, between the clear dialogue and the older sounding dialogue.

The computer in the detention block scene makes new noises.

When Han, Luke and Chewie are shooting the cameras in the cell block area, the explosions are all re-done. There is also some new blaster fire added. When Han shoots the console, his blaster is much louder now then it was before.

The explosion as the stormtroopers blast into the cell block is much louder and has more bass.

When Leia shoots the hatch to get into the garbage chute, the explosion is different.

Chewie pounding on the door of the trash compactor makes new sounds.

The famous blooper of the stormtrooper walking into the door has now been punctuated with a loud “clunk” sound effect. What was once a tough to see mistake is now pointed ot for everyone to see.

When Ben is turning off the tractor beam (I guess this is what he’s doing since the display is no longer in English) some sound effects that were heard at Bespin in The Empire Strikes Back and in ALIEN are mixed in here.

The creature sound effects after they get out of the trash compactor are different.

When Leia fires her blaster during the chasm crossfire, it no longer sounds like Dirty Harry’s .44 magnum. This chasm also has the ALIEN/Bespin sound effect.

When Luke throws the grappling hook, it makes a “whizzing through the air” sound effect.

When they are shouting for Luke to come on board the Falcon (after Ben’s death) Leia now says, “Luke, come on!”. Previously, it was just “Come on!”.

Music reverb heard during the fight with the TIE Fighters is gone.

During the TIE Fighter fight, there is a long shot of the Falcon and you can see red blaster fire coming from it. There is now sound there to match.

During the first dive towards the attack on the Death Star, key music has been dialled out for a few moments.

“He’s on your tail” line from the SE mix is not heard here.

New sounds can be heard in Red Leaders cockpit as his ship is failing.

When Red Leaders engine is hit by blaster fire, it now makes the same sound as a lamp blowing up in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

As Han, Luke, and Leia walk off after the battle, new crowd cheering effects can be heard.

Neil
Old 09-20-04, 02:05 PM
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Are these people actual fans of this or just life-long critics? Stupid Nerds. - Watch the personal attacks!!!
Old 09-20-04, 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by FinkPish
Is this guy is comparing the music mixed into the film to the sountrack CDs? Is that is the case, there are always discrepancies, Always. Once the music is written, there are always changes done on the mixing stage by music editors (like me). Doesn anyone know if he is actually comparing them to the VHS tapes or the Laserdiscs or just the soundtrack CDs?
He's comparing it to the prior releases of the film. He's also posted several clips of from the latest release where the levels change greatly between lines of dialogue with comparisons to the prior mixes.
Old 09-20-04, 02:10 PM
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OK, thanks for the clarification. But wasn't every other mix in stereo? I know that doesn't account for all of the changes, but when you move things into a wider sound field, things are going to come out that you hadn't heard before.
Old 09-20-04, 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by FinkPish
Are these people actual fans of this or just life-long critics? Stupid Nerds.
I completely agree. Regardless of fanboys nitpicking every little thing, these will definately be the best sound mixes ever for these films.
Old 09-20-04, 02:44 PM
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I just can't believe the guy has ears that are that well tuned into to subtle changes between 3 releases of the film.

The only way to know this would be to go back and watch/listen to each on the exact same sound system simultaneously.

While not impossible, it's very unlikely. The saddest thing about this is the fact that the guy actually had the time to do it, think about it, and type it out.


I do wonder, though, if indeed all these sound above are "new." I suspect they are not.
Old 09-20-04, 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by bboisvert
(Some dialogue) is clearly from the old mix. Right in the middle of the line there is a quality shift. This happens through out the entire movie, but this may be the most obvious. It almost feels like a game, wondering if the next line is going to be the new clear dialogue or the older sounding dialogue.
Super.
Old 09-20-04, 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by Kal-El
Eh. Some people really LOOK for stuff not to like about Star Wars or reasons to complain about it. Wish I had that much free time.
No shit. Good God, why do people analyze every single second of the films looking for a reason to bitch?
Old 09-20-04, 03:12 PM
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that's what i'm afraid of most. many of us will probably be able to spot the changes (probably not to the level as the guy who found them first.) but there are ppl who know every sound/action of a movie, especially die-hard fans and film students/buffs. it's their input that many of our debates and conversations stem from, so i welcome their observations.
Old 09-20-04, 03:16 PM
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When significant changes are made to an audio soundtrack of a beloved movie, I think it's valid to point them out. I, for one, was annoyed during several of the audio mistakes in SUPERMAN (specifically, when Marlon Brando's voice was eliminated as Superman was turning back the world), and I'm glad there are others who notice these kind of technical deficiencies. Isn't that what a forum of this sort is all about?
Old 09-20-04, 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by Toad
I just can't believe the guy has ears that are that well tuned into to subtle changes between 3 releases of the film.
There are lots of people with your attitude, actually. I'm one of those people that have seen these films so many times, I can tell sound differences immediately.

I *still* have friends who are determined that there is no audio difference in ESB (original vs. SE) when the Hoth announcement is made ("The first transport is away!")

I've played the original for them. Then the SE. Then the original. They still claim there is "no difference". To me, it is clearly a different dub of the line. The inflection is completely different.

Sounds like this new edition of the trilogy has more changes like this.
Old 09-20-04, 03:36 PM
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I can't understand what pointing out all of these changes and errors accomplishes. It ends up sounding like some sort of Rain Man-esque list making, of no use to anyone but the list maker. I can understand the interest in noticing changes that were made from one version to another, but this obsession to list every minute detail just baffles me. All it does is make people upset, either at Lucas for making the changes, or at the people who made the list in the first place.

I can understand if people had noticed changes to something that hadn't already been announced as having changes, but it has been announced everywhere that this is a newer version than before. This isn't any different than changes Lucas makes to the picture; these are his movies, and he can change them however he wants.
Old 09-20-04, 03:37 PM
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Well, I guess I'm glad I can't (or don't) notice the differences. They seem very subtle and unimportant to the film itself; if film students or audio enthusiasts enjoy picking it apart and putting it back together, more power to them.

As I haven't seen the DVDs yet, I cannot comment on the differences. I suspect I'll have nothing to say about them. I haven't watched my VHS copies in several years, and my stereo has been upgraded significantly since VCR days.
Old 09-20-04, 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by FinkPish
I can't understand what pointing out all of these changes and errors accomplishes. It ends up sounding like some sort of Rain Man-esque list making, of no use to anyone but the list maker. I can understand the interest in noticing changes that were made from one version to another, but this obsession to list every minute detail just baffles me. All it does is make people upset, either at Lucas for making the changes, or at the people who made the list in the first place.

I can understand if people had noticed changes to something that hadn't already been announced as having changes, but it has been announced everywhere that this is a newer version than before. This isn't any different than changes Lucas makes to the picture; these are his movies, and he can change them however he wants.
So, you feel that listing the changes holds no value? That we should just say "Yeah, they're different" and leave it at that without being specific? That has never, ever happened in the history of the Internet. Not once.

Any director's/alternate cut results in a list of what's different. I personally think that's pretty valuable and interesting. I like knowing what's different and speculating as to why they made the changes. So there's one person right here -- besides the list maker -- who enjoyed reading that. I suspect there are quite a few more who care as well, given the number of views/posts that these threads inevitably receive.

I suppose the solution is that if you don't care about lists of changes, you probably shouldn't click on a thread entitled "Star Wars audio changes". Problem solved.
Old 09-20-04, 04:01 PM
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I don't think that last response was necessary. I wasn't trying to be a jerk about it. I was just commenting on the fact that I didn't understand the mindset of making these incredibly detailed lists. I'm not saying it's stupid or smart or other, I'm just stating that I don't understand it and so I'll ask if someone can clue me into the though process behind it. I'm asking does it really help to have all the changes listed other than to have a reference? That's all. I'm not attacking anyone here.
Old 09-20-04, 04:01 PM
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Thanks for the info Trigun. Just checked over at digitalbits.com and they are reporting the same thing. Their waiting to hear back from lucasfilm at the time.
Old 09-20-04, 04:05 PM
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You beat me to it Buddy - Digitalbits is also referring to it as a potential defect, not changes, as it impacts some dialog as well
Old 09-20-04, 04:08 PM
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Although I agree the list is nitpicky, and it's possible some of the sounds were always there but never audible before, I am concerned about certain changes like Obi-Wan's "Krayt Dragon" howl. I've heard this is very noticeable and sounds ridiculous compared to the original verison which no one complained about.
Old 09-20-04, 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Newfrd
Digitalbits is also referring to it as a potential defect, not changes, as it impacts some dialog as well
Can you guys imagine, if after all this hype and talk about this set, there was some defect in the mastering process and they had to be recalled?
Old 09-20-04, 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by Green Jello
Can you guys imagine, if after all this hype and talk about this set, there was some defect in the mastering process and they had to be recalled?
Why wasn't this shit reported earlier?

I thought various dvd reviewers (ie. press) had this set weeks in advance? Did they skip SW go straight into Empire, Jedi...assuming that everything was fine because the Holy Trilogy went through some "God-like" restoration process?

Reviewers are suppose to report this crap ASAP, not a day before the release.

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