Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > DVD Discussions > DVD Talk
Reload this Page >

is the canadian Passion of the Christ really full bit rate DTS?

DVD Talk Talk about DVDs and Movies on DVD including Covers and Cases

is the canadian Passion of the Christ really full bit rate DTS?

Old 09-01-04, 12:15 PM
  #1  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Rypro 525's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: a frikin hellhole
Posts: 28,264
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
is the canadian Passion of the Christ really a full bit rate DTS?

theres a rumor floating around on htf that the dvd thats in canada that was released by Warner/Equinox has a full bit rate DTS track. why can't fox do the same for the US?

Last edited by Rypro 525; 09-01-04 at 12:58 PM.
Old 09-01-04, 04:27 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Nashotah, WI, USA
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I didn't think a full bit rate track could fit on one DVD as seen with Dances with Wolves.
Old 09-01-04, 04:38 PM
  #3  
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 2,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by gbub
I didn't think a full bit rate track could fit on one DVD as seen with Dances with Wolves.
Sure it will. It all depends on the length of the movie. DWW is only that way because the film is 181 minutes and they would have to compress the hell out of the video to make it fit.

Another good example of this is Apollo 13. The Dolby Digital version has a few extras, but the video is also at a higher bit rate.
Old 09-01-04, 05:54 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Fox just wants to get your money twice.
Old 09-01-04, 06:25 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Jakarta, INA
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
so.... is the 'rumor' true?? where's our fellow canadian, eh?
Old 09-01-04, 06:35 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 33,615
Received 611 Likes on 436 Posts
Well, I have the disc but my pre-amp only has DD5.1
Old 09-01-04, 06:45 PM
  #7  
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Southlake, TX (DFW)
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ouch!
Old 09-01-04, 07:28 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Somewhere in the boonies, MA
Posts: 9,480
Received 274 Likes on 219 Posts
Stick it in your PC- if you have a DVD-Rom that is.
Old 09-01-04, 07:48 PM
  #9  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 33,615
Received 611 Likes on 436 Posts
I just tried that but my audio card doesn't support DTS either.
Old 09-01-04, 08:00 PM
  #10  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 33,615
Received 611 Likes on 436 Posts
I can ask folks on a Canadian forum I go to. How would one know if a DTS track has "full bit rate"?
Old 09-01-04, 08:02 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sitting on a beach, earning 20%
Posts: 9,917
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Full bitrate is about 1500 kbps, I believe.
Old 09-01-04, 08:10 PM
  #12  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 33,615
Received 611 Likes on 436 Posts
Ok I asked. There are a few people there with the disc so hopefully we'll get an answer.
Old 09-01-04, 08:48 PM
  #13  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
According to a thread over at HTF, the Canadian release is indeed a full bit dts track along with some of the other regions over seas. The US R1 is the standard half rate 754.5Kbps. Full dts bit rate is at 1509Kbps
Old 09-01-04, 09:08 PM
  #14  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,697
Received 468 Likes on 374 Posts
What's the point on having a 1509 kbps bitrate Audio track, if the picture quality is correspondingly degraded because of that high bitrate audio? 1509 kbps is a *huge* cost to pay, which is probably > 25% of the total bitrate of the movie itself!! Is the difference in 768 vs 1509 *really* worth it? I'm just trying to understand, that's all. For all that's worth, how is 768 really better than 448 kbps 5.1?

Thoughts on maximizing audio at the expense of picture quality?
Old 09-01-04, 09:09 PM
  #15  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So, the obvious follow-up question is... What's the best deal available to acquire the Canadian version?
Old 09-01-04, 09:14 PM
  #16  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Max DVD bit-rate is on the order of 9500kbps. So you are looking at 9500kbps - 448kbps(max AC3 track) - 1509(max DTS track) = 7543kbps available for video. That is still a substantial portion of the bits for video, a lot of DVDs are down in the 5000kbps range and still look pretty good.
Old 09-01-04, 09:20 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What's the total storage capacity of a dual sided dvd? Passion is using up 7,484MB's. The DTS track is only using 679MB's (full bit rate would be like 1300MB's or something). For the curious, the DD track is taking up 399MB's of space.

I thought storage potential was something like 8.5 gigs. If that's the case they could have gone full bit rate without sacrificing any video quality (I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong here).
Old 09-01-04, 09:27 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by zyzzle
What's the point on having a 1509 kbps bitrate Audio track, if the picture quality is correspondingly degraded because of that high bitrate audio? 1509 kbps is a *huge* cost to pay, which is probably > 25% of the total bitrate of the movie itself!! Is the difference in 768 vs 1509 *really* worth it? I'm just trying to understand, that's all. For all that's worth, how is 768 really better than 448 kbps 5.1?

Thoughts on maximizing audio at the expense of picture quality?
Actually, the Canadian version also has a higher bit rate for the video as well.

Canada:
Video - 6,738 MB's

USA:
Video - 6,010 MB's
Old 09-01-04, 09:59 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: DVD Rehab
Posts: 607
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I check this out at work tomorrow for you guys. I'll see if it says DTS or not.
Old 09-01-04, 10:01 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sitting on a beach, earning 20%
Posts: 9,917
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally posted by Masamune
I check this out at work tomorrow for you guys. I'll see if it says DTS or not.
Appreciated, but the question isn't whether or not it has dts, but does it have full bitrate dts.
Old 09-01-04, 11:34 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,697
Received 468 Likes on 374 Posts
Very interesting info posted on the space consumed by video for Canadian vs US version... Looks like the Canadian Release is the one to *definitely* get: a 12% increase in average video bitrate (6734 MB vs 6011 MB) and full-rate 1536 kbps DTS also?

Yes, the capacity of a DVD-9 is 8.5 GB. Infuriating is the fact that this full capacity is *very often* not utilized... Case in point is THE PASSION US release, as documented above! Most Superbits are not so "Super" when one discovers that the movie only takes 5 to 6 GB out of the 8.5 GB available. I know bitrate isn't everything, but, all else being equal, find me a case where more bits does not equate to better picture quality.

Can we assume the same master for THE PASSION was used for the US and Canadian Releases? Therefore, by default, we know that the Candian version will have better picture quality than the US version.
Old 09-02-04, 12:47 AM
  #22  
DVD Talk Legend
 
cultshock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: True North Strong & Free
Posts: 17,310
Received 662 Likes on 467 Posts
I guess I'll be picking up the Canadian version. I saw it at Walmart for about $25.00 CDN. Anyone know if there is a cheaper price at other Canadian B&M stores (Futureshop, Best Buy, Costco?). Or hell, maybe I'll just wait for a PV copy at Blockbuster or Jumbo.
Old 09-02-04, 10:08 AM
  #23  
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 2,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Jah-Wren Ryel
Max DVD bit-rate is on the order of 9500kbps. So you are looking at 9500kbps - 448kbps(max AC3 track) - 1509(max DTS track) = 7543kbps available for video. That is still a substantial portion of the bits for video, a lot of DVDs are down in the 5000kbps range and still look pretty good.
I'm not sure of the exact technical aspects involved in this, but that math just doesn't work out. There are plenty of discs out there that list:

Video = 9800
DD = 448
DTS = 754

That totals 10554 bps for DTS and 10248 for DD since only one audio track is being used at a time. Plus there has to be more room for subtitles if they are turned on (although that would be minor).

Last edited by Green Jello; 09-02-04 at 10:30 AM.
Old 09-02-04, 10:45 AM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Edge of Obscurity
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
...a 12% increase in average video bitrate (6734 MB vs 6011 MB) and full-rate 1536 kbps DTS also?
Not exactly correct. 12% increase in video file size, not average bit rate.

Also, the potential problem with a 1509 kb/s DTS track is not the total file size, but the amount of headroom consumed by audio that is taken away from video. DVD uses variable bit rate MPEG compression which means the bit rate varies based on what any particular frame needs at any particular time. It is quite common for difficult-to-compress material to require the maximum available data rate to avoid artifacts. If 20% or more of the available bandwidth is given over to audio, then it is possible the video will have to be compromised at some point.

Lastly, the maximum data rate for DVD of about 9.8 mb/s is for everything, and audio and subtitle tracks are part of that, even if not selected.
Old 09-02-04, 11:34 AM
  #25  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto Canada!
Posts: 1,756
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by cultshock
I guess I'll be picking up the Canadian version. I saw it at Walmart for about $25.00 CDN. Anyone know if there is a cheaper price at other Canadian B&M stores (Futureshop, Best Buy, Costco?). Or hell, maybe I'll just wait for a PV copy at Blockbuster or Jumbo.
$23.99 at Shoppers Drug Mart.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.