MGM has as much right to sue DVDBeaver as they do to sue the New York Times for panning Jeepers Creepers 2. Or should we forgo freedom of the press so that MGM won't lose sales? Like it or not, DVDBeaver is a publication that reviews DVDs.

Given Bergman's status as a world filmmaker I find it hard to believe the OAR of Hour of the Wolf and Shame can't be determined. Can anybody read/write Swedish? This is listed as Bergman's "Official Site" at www.imdb.com:
http://hem.passagen.se/vogler/index.htm

I refer you back to my post: http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...50#post4514050

As far as internet information on this subject goes, I can't think of a more authoritative and reliable source than the Swedish Film Institute. I have also written the Bergman Foundation in an attempt to clarify this issue once and for all.

First of all, this "new member" ain't a new DVD buyer. And second, we are either gonna get this set with the weird framing or we're not gonna get it at all. And I want the extras. The most you meanies (YOU MEANIES!) are gonna get is a recall and a mass gravesite full of Bergman DVD sets.

Clearly, my use of the term "fascist" and "techno-geek" hit a sore spot.

By that logic, you would be hitting a sore spot if you called me a murderer and I complained about it. Weird. Can we stop the name calling and get back to discussing the DVD set?

First of all, lets all try to be ****ing civil here... Especially in a Bergman thread, it's not like we're talking about S.W.A.T. here or something.

Any way, I just cancelled my Amazon order (w/STL)... I've got enough stuff to watch and a ton of Criterions, etc to pick up this month. Maybe down the road I'll pick this up (or even a few of the Tartan's depending on the final verdict with the framing issue).

Come on, folks. If there's one thing about movie and dvd forums like this (and that includes the dreaded Cinemarati) its that they don't take much of a shine to outspoken new members.

I am a techo-geek dvd fascist. Okay? Not only will I not buy a fullscreen transfer of a widescreen movie, I won't even let you watch one in my presence.

All I'm saying is that we're frankly lucky to get this set from MGM. They're clearly testing the waters here in regards to interest in higher-end releases of relatively obscure (except for "Persona") foreign films. Hell, I bought every one of those Truffaut discs they released a few years back, and they ain't got NOTHIN'!

And I gotta say... this is getting close to nitpicking. What we're gonna hear back from MGM is that they are releasing the discs matted to comply with the way these films played in US theaters.
They will have some excuse, for sure.

I'm just worried that we're biting the hands that feed us here, aren't we? (Hey, that would make a great place to cut-n-paste-n-mock, wouldn't it?) I love movies just as fervently as you guys do, but I really have my heart set on this Bergman box, and I ain't havin' anybody rain on my 1.66:1 parade!

Nitpicking? For destroying my viewing experience of films I love?

I will say it again: SHAME and HOUR OF THE WOLF ARE 1.37:1. If you are happy with MGM's butchering, then go right ahead. Sorry, but this is Bergman we are talking about, not Fruit Chan or Bela Tarr. This "we should be grateful" for s*** commentaries (see: Persona commentary) and middling extras by MGM is utter bollocks. Criterion has consistently released quality Bergmans (well, maybe Autumn Sonata could be better), so I don't see why I should settle for less.

I may still buy "Passion of Anna" and even "Persona" from MGM, but the rest of my money I'll save for Criterion's "Scenes from a Marriage", thank you.

Yanci....

I am far from "nitpicking" or whatever else members on this forum would like to relate this fiasco to. I also happen to not divide people by "newbies" and "older members" but by the substance and logic of their posts. With this said I would like to point out to you that the mentality that you have adopted is not only wrong it is damaging for any movie fan.

The idea that we are "lucky" to get these films on dvd is precisely why so many foreign masterpieces never land on US shores. This is how Fox Lorber used to treat foreign cinema - as if we HAVE to feel lucky that we could actually see foreign films.

I hate to say it on this forum because I will get accused of being anti this or anti that...but look at the way the French or the Dutch for that matter treat foreign cinema....
The issue here is getting it right! As the film was meant to be seen. And in a case where we talk about one of the greatest film directors of ALL TIME- Bergman- it is simply a travesty to believe that people are blind fools. That's all. :)

The SFI says that Scenes Of A Marriage should be 1.37:1 for the theatrical version. Criterion released a laserdisc of the theatrical version of Scenes matted at 1.85:1. I hold Criterion in very high regard when it comes to releasing films in their OAR so who am I to believe here?

I mailed the SFI as well and no doubt others did as well. I hope to get an answer.

Ahem....

http://www.criterionco.com/asp/release.asp?id=229

Scenes from a Marriage - spine #229
1.33:1

Plus, how could it be in 1.85:1? That's the AMERICAN scope. This is a European film. It's either 1.33:1, 1.37:1, or 1.66:1.

Ahem indeed ...

I know reading is difficult for some people but I was referring to Criterion's LASERDISC not to their upcoming DVD. Criterion's LASERDISC was matted at 1.85:1. See for instance this old review: http://www.dvdlaser.com/search/detail.cfm?id=22401

I read you loud and clear the first time, champ. And I hardly know what is worse - parading a long OOP laserdisc as a backup even in the face of a new DVD out now with the CORRECT aspect ratio, or your insistence on continuing a tired argument just for the sake of it.

Technically the new DVD from Criterion isn't the correct ratio either.

Scenes From a Marriage should be 1.37:1, not 1.33:1.

Just in keeping with the theme of framing perfection. ;)

You know, I just want this damn Bergman box with the extras. Yeah, so the matting is a little controversial... I guarantee I'll still ENJOY making my way through the set. And, frankly, I'm such a black-bar junkie that I may get off on the letterboxing, even if its not essential.

And of course I'll be buying "Scenes From A Marriage" to replace my old laser... its the six hour version!

Yeah, what he(or she) said!

"He"...

um...so did anyone write or call MGM regarding this?
this is ABSOLUTELY INTOLERABLE!

Just got the latest DVD ETC mag - the Bergman set gets an "A" review. (Says it's 1.66:1 and widescreen)

Sounds like a lazy reviewer to me. I bet we'll see quite a few "A" reviews for this set, but that doesn't change the fact that two of the films have been wrongly cropped from their original aspect ratios.

The SFI came back to me regarding Shame and Hour of the Wolf:

I actually received my set this morning as it had already shipped before i had chance to cancel my pre-order....this has to be the first time i've been disappointed with what i've ordered before ever getting chance to check it out first.

Thank you for emailing them and getting an answer! Much appreciated. I am vindicated, though certainly I am not happy about it at all.....

MGM Recalls Bergman Box & Postpones Release!!!!
 

From the Criterion Collection Forum:

In an email to those who were sent review copies, MGM says:
So, you see, corporate America DOES listen to the little guys sometimes! Congrats & thanks to everyone who worked to publicize these issues (particularly Gary Tooze of DVD Beaver).


EDIT: It appears that Randy Salas, the DVD reviewer for the Minneapolis Star Tribune first relayed the above news at the Home Theater Forum -- a big thanks to Randy as well.

The "transfer problems on two of the discs" appears to refer to the modified aspect ratios of Shame and Hour of the Wolf (both were filmed in 1.37:1, but incorrectly transferred--and significantly cropped--at 1.66:1), and not to the framing of Persona (which was correctly transferred at 1.33:1, though some have criticized the cropping).

Re: MGM Recalls Bergman Box & Postpones Release!!!!
 

I'm glad this is getting sorted out!! unfortunately it doesn't help when retailers break street dates.....looks like i'll be firing off an e-mail to my chosen supplier in the hope they'll accept my boxset back again and ship a new one out once it gets sorted.

Some positive news for a change - I already cancelled my pre-order and will be looking forward to buying the set sans the transfer issues.