Static Cling

What is a threadcrap?

A "threadcrap" is a term we've come to use here at DVD Talk for a post (usually negative) that is off the topic of the thread in which it is posted, or criticizes/ridicules the thread starter or the thread itself. Threadcraps usually have no reasoning behind them, but this is not always the case. This definition is not meant to be all inclusive, but it is meant to give you a general idea of what the term means. Ultimately, the moderators hold the final word on what is or is not a threadcrap.

Edit: This is different than a hijack, in which a thread (intentionally or unintentionally) happens to go off in a different direction than originally intended, usually because of someone asking a question related to the topic of the thread. It isn't against the rules, but it isn't exactly ideal, either.

Can you give me an example?

One commonly seen threadcrap is someone posting that "___________ is a crappy movie" in a thread dedicated to information about the movie's DVD release. The point of the thread isn't to discuss the quality of the movie, but to discuss the movie's DVD release.

Another commonly seen threadcrap is quoting someone else's post and saying "that's a stupid thing to say." If you think someone's wrong, point out the correct information or provide your interpretation of events without attacking the other person.

What's the big deal about threadcraps?

The purpose of the DVD Talk Forum is discussion. Threadcraps interfere with the flow of discussion. Something that goes against the purpose of the forum and rudely interrupts a discussion between members has no place on this forum.

What should I do if I think I see a threadcrap?

1. Don't reply to it with a snide (or otherwise) remark. Although it's often fun , it just leaves more for moderators to clean up afterwards. And since it's a reply to an off-topic comment, the reply itself is probably off-topic, so it doesn't belong in the thread either.

2. Do click on the "Report this post to a moderator" link that is in the post. An e-mail will be sent the moderators of the forum, and they will decide on what action to take. This could be anywhere from nothing (if the post is actually on-topic) to a suspension or banning (for repeat offenders), or anything in between.

I will be leaving this thread open so that people can ask for clarification, if necessary. Thanks for reading!

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Appendix

What do I do if I feel that one of my posts was wrongly deleted as a threadcrap?

1. Don't post about it in the thread. It's possible that the moderator who deleted your post will never read that thread again, so he won't see your concern and/or complaint. In addition, if the first post wasn't off topic, this second post about the first post definitely is.

2. If you'd like, do e-mail that moderator directly about the post. You are much, much more likely to get a response if you send an e-mail to the moderator.

GatorDeb

[Obligatory][/Obligatory]

Dudikoff

Just be careful in making the distinction between "threadcrap" and people's opinions. Some people may be logging onto the forum in search of real people's opinions, not just a glowing advertisement for a given film. Most true film fans do not like every movie they see and should tell others of thier dislike for what they would consider a "crappy" movie or "crappy" director.

Thunderball

No, people's opinion of a crappy whatever are one thing, this threadcrapping refers to such comments

There we have Static asking about some DVDs coming out, and saying he loves George Lucas. This thread is supposed to be about the Star Wars DVD.

here comes the threadcrap

That is what we are talking about, and it happens far to often on these forums. If you want to talk about the movie, go to the MOVIE talk forum, this forum is for DVD talk.

The Bus

I reserve the right to mock and insult the film 'A.I.' as many times as I see fit. Give me just this one. Please.

Static Cling

Hey, as long as you do it in the right thread, it's all yours.

Easy

Dudikoff has a legitimate concern and I share it. I could name one forum where dvds and movies are discussed that currently indulges in capricious censorship. I hope dvdtalk will not go down that road.

Static Cling

I understand your concerns. I added an appendix to the first post about what people should do if they feel their thread has been edited/deleted wrongly... please read it, in case you feel that this has happened to you.

As long as people follow the rules of the forum, they can post any opinion they want.

Jericho

This thread sucks the sweat off a dead man's balls!

Seriously though, I think the point is, should you want to voice your opinion, due it in the appropriate threads. There are thousands of threads here on this board, many of which are pretty insignicant. But no one wants to read someone say how much a movie sucks in a thread about the DVD specs or DVD prices. Limit film reviews to review threads. That's all

vaporware

There is something that is really bothering me about your definition of threadcrapping. I've noticed that you've deleted replies that were derogatory and that's fine. But to delete a reply that is against the subject matter or indirectly related to the subject matter seems a little excessive. I've seen that done on at least three seperate occasions.

Threadcrapping IMO was if someone were to post something purely to get flamed. If someone is posting their opinion, even if it's the slightest bit on topic, their replies shouldn't be censored.

Blade

If you have some specific examples, could you please email them to the moderator who did the editing for clarification?

In general, however, it's not so much an issue of "censorship" as it is one of "putting things in their place." Opinions of movies generally don't belong in a discussion about a movie's special features, problems with the DVD, or requests for release information. We don't edit out positive comments on a film because those types of comments tend to not take a thread off topic or generate bad feelings in the thread itself (ie, aren't likely to lead to personal attacks).

vaporware

I wish i had a specific example i could quote but they were deleted and i can't remember the exact structure of the replies.

If someone were in a movie dvd features thread and threw an off topic, "I really like the movie" or "I didn't care for the movie or this actor/actress" etc. would that be grounds for a deletion? That's how i'm reading your reply.

Blade

We (usually) keep copies of deleted material. If you send us a link, we can probably find the original text. Or even if you see another one in the near future, just send an email to the mod who did the editing.

The point of this is to make reading the forums more productive and enjoyable for as many members as possible, so we're always interested in hearing feedback. At the same time, let's try to not be too nitpicky either. We're not trying to squash independent thought here. The former, no; the latter, probably. People who are reading that type of thread are generally going to be fans of the film. Posting unsolicited negative comments is just going to unnecessarily tick people off, which leads to off topic discussion (remember, the threads about DVD features, not the movie or the actors in it) and possibly insults. Moreover, opinions like that are better reserved for threads asking for opinions on the movie itself or discussions of the movie's relative merits, not for threads discussing DVD release dates or features. Even a positive comment can get a warning about taking a thread off topic (should it cause that to happen).

But it's done on a case by case basis. If someone says, "I could have done with out xyz character, but otherwise I enjoyed the movie. I'm really looking forward to listening to the commentary/watching the deleted scences/etc..." then that's probably going to be left alone. The key here is if it's likely to take a thread off topic or start a fight.

Five Cent Deposit

Worst Thread EVER



Mike, congratulations on your Mod-ship. Looks like they made a good decision getting you on board. I appreciate your effort in this thread, and believe me, I think threadcrapping is a huge annoyance. It doesn't seem as rampant as it once did, but I understand your concern with how you as a Mod should deal with it. And while I am sure that there is a "party line" that all Mods must tow, and that all Mods have to agree on a thread like this before you go and post it, I'd like you (Mike) to take some time to look at how some of the "older" Mods handle things. I'm not fond of Blade personally, and I disagree with a whole lot of his ideas, but he always stands out in my mind as a really great mod for ONE reason- he is HIGHLY visible as a "cop" of sorts. I see moreposts from him where he quotes a threadcrap and tells the crapper that they are out of line, than from any other Mod. I've always had a problem with "censorship" of any kind... in fact I almost NEVER support the deletion of posts. One of my more compelling reasons pertains directly to this subject- I want to be able to see the boundaries of "right and wrong" CLEARLY. If Blade or some other Mod quotes the offending text in question and says, "Hey, that was a threadcrap. If you do it again, expect a suspension of your posting priveleges. Consider this a warning." then we all get to see what is acceptable or not. MANY would argue that "Well, I'm not here to rile people up and be confrontational. I am certain that I'll never overstep any boundaries, so I don't need to know exactly what those boundaries are." But I'm not one of those people. I sometimes come here for the sole purpose of "spirited debate". You KNOW that that sometimes unravels. I think I've skirted the edge with a number of my posts. Usually, when I think to myself "Gee, I wonder if I just warranted a suspension?", *I* will alert a mod and ask. But I shouldn't have to ask whether or not I broke the rules. Overall, I DO trust (most) of the Mods and their judgement. But you never know, and the "rules" ARE open to some interpretation. Let me provide a hastily imagined metaphor:

Imagine that you are cruising along on the highways at what seems to you to be a safe speed. You trust your own driving skills and your own judgement. You know that there will always be some who driver slower, and some who drive faster. What you don't know is the speed limit- it isn't posted. In fact, for all you know there might not be an "official" limit. Maybe the government puts all of its faith in whatever Highway Patrolmen happen to be on duty at any given moment. So there you are, cruising along. Another car overtakes you and passes you. You don't KNOW how fast it was going. Only that it was going fastER than you. So you figure, what the heck and step on the gas a little. This is fun! Scenery flying by, cool things to look at, wind in your hair, good music on the car stereo. Then suddenly a cop car goes flying past you. A couple of minutes later you see on the side of the road that he has pulled over the other driver who was going faster than you were. Okay, you think. THAT guy broke the rules- he went "too fast". But how fast was he going? You'll never know- he and the cop are already behind you, evidence of his crime fading to a speck on the horizon.

A situation like that would TOTALLY suck. That's the kind of situation that you can create when you delete posts. "Bad" posts that are left around serve as guidlelines for those of us who might like to "speed within the local tolerance zone" every once in awhile. And as long as those posts aren't actually HURTing the people in the slow lane, why erase them? I suggest that before you delete ANY post, you ask the "injured" for an opinion.

BTW, please check *this* out and let me know what you think...

Blade

Um, thanks for thanks for the compliment. I think.

I assume you're refering to my posts in the more issue oriented threads in Other, in which case, I guess I understand, though I'd like to think we could agree to disagree without actually disliking the other person. Or maybe I'm reading your statement wrong?

Regardless, just to give Static a little slack, I've deleted thread crap posts before as well, so it's not just him.

Also, keep in mind that these comments are almost always off topic comments. For example, your current post would not be considered a thread crap. It's on topic (people misunderstanding aspect ratios) and not insulting (maybe a little wordy ). Also, beyond what he put in the original thread, it's hard to specifically say what a thread crap is, but I think the above definition is a good one and covers the bases. This has nothing to do with spirited debate.

I know that a lot of people would like us to leave these things in place as examples, and while a great idea in theory, in practice, it doesn't work so well. What will happen is that someone will come along, read the thread crap and immediately respond to it with an insult or some other comment that addresses the thread crap and not the subject of the thread. They may never get to our post telling the member to "not do this." This is even more critical in the case of personal attacks. I remeber one time, we edited out a personal attack, left a message saying so and that he'd been temp. suspended, then the guy who was attacked comes back the next day and starts cussing out the guy who attacked him all the time saying he didn't know what the guy was saying. So we had to temp. suspend him too.

Static Cling

5CD,

Thanks for the congratulations. As far as the rest of the post... I respectfully disagree.

Basically, what you're saying is that bad posts should remain to give other posters an idea of what speeds... er, posts... to avoid. Right?

1. It seems that some people seriously cannot resist responding to a threadcrap. Someone's gotta quote the threadcrap, and make some smart-aleck comment about it. I know, because I used to do it. As I said above, the reply is off-topic because it's a reply to an off-topic post, which is what we're trying to avoid. Then someone replies to the reply, and so on, and this whole off-topic conversation spins off in the thread. This isn't good because it takes away from the original intent of the thread, and also because important information might actually end up being discussed that deserves its own thread, so people can find this information easier.

2. If people are seriously concerned about what posts they should avoid making, they can contact a moderator right off the bat, before making the post. Also, if moderators notice someone crossing the line too often, a moderator will be sending that person an e-mail warning him about his behavior before any "administrative action"... suspension/banning... takes place. Those are two ways that have been in place to let people know about the "speed limits" here, and I don't see anything wrong with them.

And I agree with Blade's thoughts on your post.

Josh H

A much needed post, I hope it is enforced this time around.

There should be no discussion on the merits of a movie in DVD Talk period. Good or Bad. That's what movie talk is for. DVD Talk is to discuss DVD release dates, specs problems and so on. Movie Talk is for discussing movies, so if someone wants to bash A.I. or whatever, they need to go to movie talk, and search for a post of reviews.

TELawrence

Sheesh! Reading these rules, I now understand why I seem to be hated so much on this board. Let me see if I've got this right.

If someone starts a thread entiled: "Glitter" is the best movie ever! It's okay to agree with them. But it's not okay to dog the movie or the actors. The idea being that the original poster was looking for a 'Glitter' joy fest and the negative post is making him uncomfortable or feel bad. Right?

So the correlary of this would be. it would be okay to start a thread: "Glitter" is the worst peice of trash ever! It would then be okay for everyone to gang rape this film. It would NOT be okay for Glitter lovers to comment on how great it is. Yea? Nay?

Just trying to understand the rules...

Edit: Josh just posted his message and now I'm really confused. Are these rules just for the DVDTalk webboard or for the site in general?

Static Cling

Well, if the Glitter is the best movie ever! post is in Movie Talk, I think that it's fair game for both Glitter lovers (if they exist) and haters to post in. It'd be good for the Glitter haters to actually post thought-out opinions on why this movie's so horrible (and really, it shouldn't be that hard)... something more that just "Glitter eats!" For a real example, there is an anti-Vin Diesel thread in Movie Talk that, as far as I can remember, is a good example of a thread that started out negative, but Vin fans posted in and discussed his acting ability. The topic is Vin Diesel's acting ability, and people on both sides were discussing that ability (or lack thereof).

If, however, someone posted a thread entitled I loved Glitter - please recommend movies like it, then the discussion is not about discussing the quality of the movie Glitter, but recommending movies that are similar to the movie Glitter. Posts slamming Glitter... no matter how much the movie deserves it... would not be welcome there, since quality discussion is not the point of the thread.

Of course, other people's feelings on the forum are something to consider whenever posting... but the rules against threadcrapping are primarily in place to keep threads on topic, and not necessarily to protect people's feelings.

The anti-threadcrapping rules apply across the entire forum... from DVD Talk Main to Other, and all points in between.

Hope this helps.

vaporware

Well then the other forum may as well be done away with. Rarely does any subject there stay on topic. Look at any thread concerning the middle east and it always goes off subject of the main topic. Religious threads do the same.

There have been many threads in other that the original topic yielded no discussion whereas an off topic matter created heated debate that brought life to what would have been a dead thread.

I'd like to think that topics on this board are much like conversations in real life. You may have the theme of a topic in your conversation but there are always related topics that can easily be discussed within the main topic.

Static Cling

There is a difference between a discussion moving to related topics, as they often do in Other, and someone posting in an Other thread "This thread sucks!" or "(Insert topic of discussion) is stupid... why are we talking about this?" Also, there is probably a little more leeway in off/related-topic deviation in Other as opposed to the more "directed" forums... as in, threads about DVDs releases and features go into the DVD Talk Main forum, threads about movie discussion go into the Movie Talk forum, etc. Threads about "other" topics go to Other... there's no "Other" Other forum on here where they'd go.

Startide

Do you consider it thread crapping if someone posts a correction even though it is small? I try not to post corrections to individuals about deals, but if the deal was posted by someone "advertising" their deals website in the SIG, then I consider correction in that case to be fair game. After all, part of the reason of posting is for that individual to advertise their deals website. If they are trying to hype up excitement for a deal (and thus their site) by being too optimistic on the bargain terms, then I feel corrections should be posted.

Static Cling

A fact correction isn't the same thing as a threadcrap. Just be respectful about it, and it should be fine.

People shouldn't be posting self-advertisements on the Forum... if you see this happening, please report the post to the moderators, and we'll take care of it.

MrVette99

Yes, it's simple in many cases, and not so in others, and your examples are fine for when it is.

Let me modify one for example of how I saw one of my replies get labeled a tread crap.

It should not be considered a thread crap if I post
That's not the greatest example but maybe it gets the point accross all the same. And BTW, that would be considered humor, and should not be taken as an attack, nor meant to be confrontational. Anyways, as I read all the verbage above there is plenty of confusion in what is being put forth as the "rule". Seems to me to be subject to interpretation by those with the biggest stick. Whatever ...

Static Cling

That's why this thread is remaining open... to have an open forum in which we can clear up any confusion over the rules. Also, as it says above, if you disagree with something a moderator's done, you're free to e-mail that moderator or, if necessary, an administrator to discuss your disagreement.
Well... yeah. The forum's owned by Geoff Kleinman, and he has rules he's laid out for the forum. The job of the moderator is to interpret the rules and apply them. Of course, we're not infallible... that's why we have multiple moderators, and then administrators over top of the mods, and then on top of the admins, Geoff himself, who all work together to interpret and apply the rules. Since he owns the place, I figure he has the right to make the rules.