Maybe you should actually READ before replying.

Criterions are NOT overpriced. If you really believe that they are, it only means that you have no idea how much time and work go into the restoration Criterion films go under. They often have to lease the right to publish these films, and in all cases they take immaculate care of their titles regarding supplements, intelligent essays/commentaries and superb packaging. That (and the fact that they almost always kick ass) is the reason why discerning film fans love the Criterion Collection and are willing to pay the few extra dollars for the ultimate presentation of the film.

Oh i forgot that they were the only company that does this kind of stuff. Sorry my mistake..... Wait.... no, they're the only company that does this kind of stuff and charges what they do. Ya that sounds better.

MSD, I'm sorry you are getting targeted about this, and I, for one, can understand your situation with Canada's currency conversion, plus all the other costs of buying imports in your part of the world. You do pay more that us in the States, so it's easy for us in the U.S. to say, "it's just a few bucks more." I must say, I do value Criterion's extra efforts in their DVDs. It is also important to note to look beyond the care they put into transfers and adding significant extras: Criterion DVDs have no extra promotional material like trailers that do not have historical value. Their DVDs do not have commercials in them like other special edition DVDs, and you can rest assured that the supplemental material are not simple back-slapping PR puff pieces but real, unbiased documentaries and interviews done by other filmmakers, journalists and film scholars. This is worth the extra $ and is actually quite priceless in this age of commercialism disguised as art. But, MSD, you are right that it is tough on the wallet, especially from Canada. I usually wait to get gift certificates to order Criterion DVDs.

C'mon... if MSD can't tell the difference, that's his very great loss. No skin off my nose.

Tell the difference between what exactly? I have no problem telling the difference between a Criterion disc and a non-Criterion disc (the price tag usually clues me in ), it's never been about that. My only problem with Criterion is that they overprice their DVDs. Their DVDs are great (most of the time) and don't get me wrong i actually have quite a few considering what i think of their prices but what they do nowadays is not so uncommon so i don't see the need for such high prices. So when a new Criterion disc is announced that i want i jump for joy but i wallet doesn't. That's all.

Actually what they do nowadays is very uncommon. I don't see MGM releasing 2-disc sets of Rhapsody in August or Fellini's Satyricon or Fellini's Roma. No other studio gives foreign films the kind of treatment Criterion does. I'm the same way with their prices though. I love Criterion DVDs but the pricing is almost like do I want these 2 releases or 1 Criterion?

There are obviously people here on stricter budgets than others. While it's easy for some to drop $30 or so for a DVD, it's harder for others. So if it's no skin of your nose, Richard, share the love and buy us each a Criterion disc.

Seriously, though, no one is going to agree on this unless they can empathize with the other. And, sorry, MSD, the States is falling very short of empathy these days.

I empathize with the folks up in the Great Northwest in this situation but I guess you'll just have to pick and choose wisely if money is a factor. You know Criterion is not going to lower their MSRP since they have a consistent price point for their niche market.

btw, MSD... very nice collection there

Two things must be remembered:

1. You shouldn't say what Criterion does is "not uncommon nowadays", just because other studios release great DVD sets too. The fact of the matter is that 20th Century Fox can afford to sell The Grapes of Wrath for $14 (which doesn't net them much) because they make up for it when they sell a gagillion X-Men, Fight Club, and Alien DVDs.

2. While their DVD prices my "annoy" some buyers today, their laserdisc prices of yesteryear would flat out piss you off. If you think paying $60 for Brazil on DVD sucks, I can't imagine how you'd feel about paying $180.

That's true but there are many independent DVD companies out there that don't charge what Criterion does and do the same work.

Alright. I'll take the bait.

Name just ONE other non-studio DVD company that consistently equals Criterion in quality and charges "reasonable" prices ....

Blue Underground.

Okay FINE... ONE company.

It's not like you could name another.



hehe, just kidding.

Anywhere here's the real reason I posted. My question is when do Criterions usually go up for preoder? I was hoping to order these on Amazon.ca today before the last of the coupons expire.

Actually not just Criterions, is there a site that has a list of when DVDs go up for pre-orders usually?

I'm really excited about the Slacker release, I"ve been waiting 9 years to see "It's Impossible to Plow..."

These are great releases...but, let's be honest: Many Criterions are grossly overpriced ($20-$25). The average MSRP of back catalogue DVDs has dropped in the past couple years to the $15-$20 range. Even many classics get released today with a $15 MSRP. But Criterion still won't budge. They're pricing themselves out of sales they used to get. They used to be just slightly over the average. Now they're often way over.


MGM just announced "Great Expectations" and "Oliver Twist." The bare-bones Criterions are $40 MSRP! The MGMs will have $15 MSRP's and, probably, better transfers.

....do you have any advanced facts or evidence to support your assumption? If you consider the OOP now Unbearable Lightness of Being as a basis for your claim you are incorrect-both the Criterion and MGM versions have poor transfers. (fact-look at the recently released Pan-European version for some further information).

With this said I do agree with you that the Criterion collection is slightly over-priced. The key word here however is indeed “slightly”...why? As many have pointed out already the answer is actually in your statement. Many classics are owned by the “majors”, Criterion does not own the rights and therefore acquiring the rights for a certain time-frame (or licensing them if you wish) within which they have to fit their extras, restored extra film elements, etc., as well requires more that needs to be invested, hence the higher price tag for he consumer. Again, even then the price is slightly higher if you consider their product as being targeted to the average film collector. If you consider them as the film-connoisseur, company that appeals to a niche-market then all of the above conclusions become irrelevant.

So you have to be selective and acquire only the titles that really mean A LOT to you. I have said this before and I stick to my words-EVEN the most avid film collector can not convince me that every single title in the Criterion collection is worth owning for cinematic reasons…if simply a collector ("name" collector...spine numbers, etc) then we step into another territory. For example many of the Asian titles that members around here favor so much I am interested in seeing but not owning. Of course there are exceptions but I lean towards the classic European titles Criterion has done such a superb job with. Even then I wont consider everything.

Example-
1. the horrid NIGHT PORTER transfer.

2. the poor Fellini AMARCORD transfer-

An anamorphic NIGHT PORTER edition is coming out in the UK which I will get and wont even look at the Criterion version.

A great AMARCORD version was just released in Holland. I will get it and wont consider the Criterion. (an even better lavish double set is coming in a few weeks in France).

Another example is the recent Jean Pierre Melville film Le Cercle Rouge released by Criterion. While the extras are quite interesting the R2 BFI British disc is simply superb image-wise. There is a striking image manipulation by Criterion that has changed the entire look of the film. While this may not be an issue for the average Criterion collector (though I doubt it) for the film completist this should be something to consider. I went with the British disc and when I did view both versions the difference really was amusing.

These are just a few examples that show that Criterion while a great company bringing some timeless classics to us is often given a status they dont really deserve. I suppose if you are an avid film lover with a limited budget you should do your fare share of research before spend the asked by Criterion price. If money is not an issue then all of the above becomes irrelevant…unless you really are looking for the best version available of a certain film.


Pro-B

The CC looks just like what I saw in 35mm 9 months ago.

As far as "pricing themselves out of sales they used to get"...does anyone know how good their sales were then, and are now?

I find it hard to believe that Criterion's scope, which continues to grow larger and explore new material with more and more supplements than ever, is out of synch with their profits.

Slacker Cover Art:

Not a bad incorporation of the original poster art. I probably would've liked it better if they'd just gone with the poster art itself, but I know Criterion doesn't really do that, so this isn't a bad compromise.

Can't wait for this DVD, no matter what the cover looks like...

Pants,

I understand what you are indicating however you saw the same print that was used for the dvd release (most likely)...already color-manipulated.

Look at Gary's points which in a way sum-up my feelings about the Criterion release.

http://207.136.67.23/film/DVDCompare...clerouge3.html

Cheers,
Pro-B

I read about the color debacle a while back... Thing is, how do we know what the correct color is? The Studio-Canal/BFI dvd's could have been taken from the same source which had incorrect coloring... Reason being is that I find it hard to believe that Criterion screwed up the coloring so severely, when they've been an almost benchmark on release after releases...

I dunno... I'd be nice if we could get a definitive answer from someone.

So what's the problem? The Criterion looks superior in all those comparisons. The flesh colors look natural, whites look natural and not washed out, and that pool table appears the proper shade of green in only the Criterion

Dear Pants,

Of course you are free to choose which version fits best your taste. However I would like to point a few things to you-

I think that DVDBEAVER's review touches on a few aspects of the video presentation that I think are quite interesting. I had a VHS tape of Le Cercle Rouge taped off the Swedish satelite channel FilmNet and the film indeed has the typical for Melville blue-ish look. In fact, what DVDBEAVER indicates regarding the filming style Melville utilizes in Le Samourai is indeed based on the very same moody blue if I could describe it this way.

I own two more Melville films that are yet to be released in the US and similar is the case with them as well. They were again taped from FilmNet so you could argue that digital restoration was not used however the quality is extremely good and the "natural" look the Criterion version has is not what Melville intended in my opinion. The blue-ish look in my view is very much part of the aura of the film...so typical for the noire genre (within Melville's work).

This are just my personal observations...you are of course entitled to have your own opinion.

Pro-B