demonio

Feathers McGraw

The only people saying that are those trying to discredit those of us who don't like these changes, and won't be buying the dvd when it's released.

Simple question for those of you who either like or don't care about all these changes:

Is there nothing that can be done to a favourite film of yours that makes it contemptible?

Let's say the director decides that whole "Rosebud" thing needs to go. Or that Civil War stuff is just too distracting, we need to concentrate more on the love triangle between Rhett et al. Or hey, that monkey climbing the Empire State Building looks really cheesy, we can use computer graphics now and make him look real.

As my favourite meerkat would say:
And everybody's OK with this!?

PixyJunket

Yes.

KnightLerxst

Lucas did not rape my childhood. If I want to watch the original movies I can throw them in the laserdisc player

I just think it is kinda sad that there is such a denial from him that the originals even exist. Being and artist I understand the feeling that a work is never finished, but I don't understand denying the original existed.

I would just like the originals on dvd, thats all.

Jason

Plus, we still don't know what will happen in Episode III.



I have no problem with this, in terms of integrating all six movies together. Anakin as an old man never really existed anyhow. The ROTJ Anakin is a "what if" projection of what he would have looked like, except that he looks nothing at all like Haden or Mark Hammil. Obi Wan shows up as an old man because that's how he died. Same with Yoda, who didn't age that much anyhow. I hope they change his costume to the black leather thing he wears in II and III, too, since he has never been seen in the old sackcloth robes he's wearing in ROTJ.

I also hope they do not add Padme, Mace Windu, or any other characters that the OT characters would not know.

LorenzoL

KnightLerxst, my feelings exactly.

I don't mind that Lucas wants to change the original trilogy (they are his movies after all and he can do whatever he wants with them) however, I want him to at least release the original versions along with the altered ones since that's how most of us remember the trilogy. His strong dislike (almost hatred) of the original trilogy is very disturbing.

Memo to Lucas, you are not God, please come down from your high horse.

Captain Harlock

I'm thinking that if the original cuts of the film were released in his mind that would invalidate the work he did on the the SE's. Maybe there's this mindset "I'm gonna make these people like it!!" at play here. Remember all the people who thought Jar Jar sucked? And he kept saying how Jar Jar would still be in the next two films and how he thought the character was "well recieved". Kind of the same thing I think.

LorenzoL

Excellent point.

I don't know when exactly this happened to Lucas but he has developed a strong annoyance to all of the "fanboys" that made him rich and help him create his Lucasfilm empire along with ILM (My guess will be after the release of Episode 1 when the whole backlash started). I almost feel like he's going to do exactly like Shatner did in an old episode of Saturday Night Live and tell his "fans" to get a life.

Basically, everytime there's a request or petition to Lucas about the original trilogy, he treat the "request" with disdain.

The more this whole debate drags on, the more I'm starting to despise the man.

jough

That just shows how delusional Lucas has become.

Now, to disregard reality like that could mean that Lucas is suffering from some kind of mental illness, but since he surrounds himself with yes-men and has lots of money, no one is willing to say that the emperor has no clothes at all.

So we get an insane Lucas furiously scribbling over his old work, wearing a tinfoil hat and muttering something about the government trying to steal his movies...

Since he has a world-class art and CG effects department at his command, his scribblings look pretty good, but they're no less the random scribblings of a mad man.

Mike Lowrey

What's scary about that is that your 5-year old face looks more like the scared Sebastion Shaw face than Hayden's does.

Mike Lowrey

Look folks, the only thing that I want out of the Star Wars Saga is that they all look at least visually consistant through-out the entire 6-film run.

Having Ep. I-III look like they were shot in present times, and then having Ep. IV-VI look like they were shot 25+ years ago, just doesn't make much sense to me.

Because as someone said above that in generations to come, people will ask, "How come Ep. IV-VI look so different?"

I'd be happy with just up-dated f/x, maybe some filler environmental f/x (such as ships and vehicles flying around in the background). I'd also wouldn't mind seeing some additional scenes in the Battle for Hoth, eg. AT-AT force landing and snowtrooper and Hoth rebeltrooper battles. I always felt cheated that we didn't get to see a Hoth infantry battle.

jim_cook87

This is the worst idea I've heard. Star Wars' visual effects, editing, art direction, and sound won Oscars. They were milestone achievements that set the standard for many years, pushing the envelope and inspiring other directors to expand their vision. Re-working them to match today's standards denies us the opportunity to see the achievement that it was and to appreciate the place Star Wars holds in the history of film.

jough

I just watched the old original trilogy on VHS, and one thing about the SFX stood out in my mind:

Episodes I and II look really good, but not much better than comparable work done for other films today, whereas the SFX in Eps. IV, V, and VI are still marvels to behold, and I look at the original trilogy and think "Man, that's awesome - how did they do that?" far more than I do with the recent films. There was a certain majesty to the visuals when they were shooting models that's missing in the cartoony-looking SFX in the recent films. The original trilogy SFX looked REAL, whereas the recent films look more fake than films done 25+ years ago.

Yes, there are mistakes and some failed experiments, but for the most part, I'd take the model work over the CGI any day.

The only place that the CGI seemed to improve upon the models and puppets was in the case of Yoda - the CGI version in Ep. II was amazingly expressive (albeit cartoony looking when he was flying around like a whirling dervish).

And yes, I look more like Darth Vader than Hayden Christanssen does.

BizRodian

Or he could just be making the films the way he wants to make them, still have tons of fans, still pleasing his target audiance, and still making a ton of money.

I think the changes are stupid too, but to say the kind of things you've said is really out there.

I wish every filmmaker was like Lucas, I think we'd have better films if everyone made things they way they thought of as good and not the way they thought people would like them. Yeah, some things would be worse (like the new Star Wars movies) but judging by the number of directors cuts I've seen that are way better than the originals, I think it'd make up for it. Of course, it'll never happen, as most directors can't afford to finance their own films.

jough

Has ANYONE, EVER said that they loved Jar-Jar? Little kids hate Jar-Jar. Everyone has been pretty vocal about hating Jar-Jar. Yet Lucas is in la-la land, and thinks that everyone loves him.

There's a word for that: delusional.

milo bloom

You know, if Jar Jar had been in a little side adventure, and had much better comic timing, he wouldn't have been so bad. Some of his bits are funny, but they don't belong in a Star Wars film.

I'm still hoping he'll redeem Jar Jar by having him die for one of the twins in 3.

darqleo

Hey anyone seen this yet? Lucas isn't stopping with his Star Wars movies ....
What's next? Howard The Duck? Heh!!

http://www.thx1138movie.com/trailers/1/thx480dd3a.mov

jough

Wait until you see his re-edit of American Graffitti with planes and more traffic crammed into every scene.

Terrell

I think it's the people who piss and moan like babies and imply things about a man changing his own work, a man they don't even know, that are frickin' lunatics.

I'm glad he changed it, for the simple reason to piss those kinds of people off. Those kinds of people don't deserve to be satisfied. As for the pic, it's fake people. If it's not, which it isn't, it's change that was not needed. It's creates a bigger continuity issue than it already did.

Another completely ignorant and inaccurate statement.

jough

Well, if you read the entire thread you'll see that the change IS legit, and has been confirmed by LFL.

So you're saying that it creates a bigger continuity issue than "it already did" - it being the original scene?

How was the original scene a continuity issue?

Michael Corvin

Maybe he is completely aware of the fact and just doesn't give a damn since he makes these movies for himself first and then the audience second. Maybe GL is a big Jar-Jar fan.

It is easy to mock GL behind a fake screen name on the internet, yet I don't see any of you writing better scripts or filming a better movie. Criticize all you want, I'm sure he doesn't care. He thinks he is an independant filmmaker who happens to have a big following. Since when do writers and directors take input from fans anyway?

Spiderbite

The whole "hatred" of Lucas would go away if he would just release the original theatrical trilogy on dvd and wash his hands of the controversy. Release the originals, the special editions and the new revised special editions. Do whatever you want to the originals and act like they don't exist but still give the fans a chance to own a decent copy of them unaltered instead of crummy bootlegs on dvd.

The Special Edition (or future revised editions) is not the movie that won seven or so Oscars for 1977. Star Wars was a historic landmark in film history at the time with unbelievable special effects. King Kong and Logan's Run won for Best Visual Effects the year before Star Wars. Star Wars makes those movies look like they were made a decade before it. I think the originals (especially Star Wars) should be made available just for the historic value alone. As someone mentioned before, miniatures done right can look better than most CGI. Star Wars did it better than anyone ever had and raised the bar on special effects for the entire industry.

I liken some of this to Paul McCartney recently redoing The Beatles' "Let It Be." He was never happy with Spector's work on it and after 30 years, he decides to release a completely new version. Does McCartney state that once his version of Let It Be is released that the original Let It Be will never be available again? No. Both copies of Let It Be are available and the buying public gets to decide and buy which one they want (with most Beatles fans owning both copies).

I personally am not buying Star Wars when it comes to dvd this fall unless the originals are housed with it. I was going to pass on E.T. until Spielberg graciously allowed the original version to be released. I would hope that those of you who truly want the original trilogy on dvd would also join me in passing on buying the altered versions that are coming this fall. It may not be much but it could at least make a small dent.

It is humorous to see many people who claim that Lucas can do whatever he wants to his movies also join in discussions wanting Original Aspect Ratio and no Colorization of films.

I don't feel that Lucas has raped my childhood or anything like that but it does make me sad that I have to own a dinosaur Laserdisc or VHS player to watch a legitimate copy of the originals. I do own bootlegs of the originals on dvd and will continue to purchase bootlegs if they make better copies than what I have now.

jough

Your argument is flawed, though, simply by the easy proof that he releases these films for sale to the public. In other words, they're not for him, they're for US.

I wouldn't complain if he made movies for himself and watched them in the privacy of his own home.

I don't really have that much of a problem with Jar-Jar. That's not really the issue. The issue is that it's pretty obvious that even ardent fans of the franchise HATE Jar-Jar, and Lucas continues to state how much he thinks people love him.

He's either a liar, or delusional. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt.

It is, but I use my real name on the internet.

You won't be able to make this statement by mid-2005.

I'm not suggesting that he take fan's input. I'm suggesting that he's delusional that he hears "WE HATE JAR-JAR" as "WE LOVE JAR-JAR." Never once did I suggest that he change the films to suit the fans. In fact, I think his attempts to placate fans has ruined his later films.

My point was that any rational person who HAS read reviews and HAS gotten fan feedback could not in a million gazillion years assume that Jar-Jar is a popular character - yet listen to the commentary tracks and watch the documentaries on the Eps. I and II DVDs where Lucas talks about how popular Jar-Jar is.

Do you just think this is wishful thinking on Lucas's part, or is it a symptom of an altered state of reality?

El-Kabong

Sorry - worlds apart.

If Lucas wants to retro-colorize the movies into black and white, more power to him. They are his movies.

If Lucas wants to physicaly snip 1/3rd of an inch of of each negitive making them all pan and scan, more power to him. They are his movies.

If he wants to put a CGI tu-tu on Darth Vader and make him sound gay, more power to him. They are his movies.

I support him doing whatever he wants to the movie. It's HIS movie. If the studio wanted to un-colorize the film, remove 1/3rd of an inch and make vader a poof - that's bad. It's not their film to do that to.

Oh yes, before I forget - here is a dead horse for all you in the "Luca$ Eats babies". Go ahead and beat it some more, will you?

chanster

The whole joke is that you will rarely find a fan who claims "Lucas raped my childhood" or "Luca$ Eats babies". - its just a straw man to bash fans who seem to just want the originals out on DVD.