Giles

so are going to get Super-Superbit DVD editions of movies then

Dammit

Super-Duper Bit.

jough

True, but as of right now the quality of WMV is inferiour to the quality of a decent MPEG-2 encoding.

That was my point. But you missed my main point, I think, which was that non-compressed full bitstream sampling is always going to be better than its compressed (lossy) counterpart.

This is why people love DTS over DD - it's less compressed, meaning it takes up more disc space - but it offers better quality.

So the compression algorithm is far far less important than the losslessness of that compression and the lack of digital artifacts - there are MPEG-2 encoders that do amazingly well with HD resolutions. So far the Microsoft HD demos have been less than impressive - even on high-end hardware there's a lot of digital noise and compression artifacts visible (even on a small screen).

It'll get better, and of course the HD-DVD players will have hardware dedicated to decoding the video stream. So until there are demo units available, it's really a moot point. But they're going to have to do better than the video on T2, which looks like bad DivX.

You're assuming a lot here. First of all, MPEG-2 is only somewhat less efficient tha MP4 - and again, it's the bitrate that matters most. A 2kbps MP4 stream is going to look really horrible next to an 8kbps MPEG-2 stream no matter how efficient the compression algorithm is.

Actually, this isn't really true - because the difference in compression efficiency is still less than the 20Gb of extra space afforded by the Blu-Ray disc. So Blu-Ray will be able to hold more data - how much more remains to be seen.

But think about this: Blu-Ray is almost certain to take off in the PC market - and 50Gb over 30Gb is a HUGE difference. Plus, so far the DVD Forum has been rather silent on adapting HD-DVD as a computer data format (the HD part doesn't make much sense if you're storing PowerPoint presentations on the disc).

Well, go ahead. You can buy a D-VHS player at Best Buy right now, as well as some pre-recorded tapes. If you can't wait, or don't care about the format (disc vs. tape, I mean), then go nuts.

But I'm willing to wait to see what matures a little faster.

diespine

i think blu-ray is better, it has got a cartridge to protect the disc, and who has not gotten a dvd with scratches that skip and jump and stall, plus bigger storage, but i think that hd-dvd will probably win out because it will be cheaper to make the dvds without the cartridge, and money is the only thing that really matters

DavidH

I think that is an incorrect assumption - the "better quality" part.

jough

Well, theoretically DTS can always sound better than DD because of the higher bitrate/less data loss due to compression.

The fact of the matter, though, is that one is not necessarily better than the other. DTS should generally be superiour, but in many cases the differences are negligible, if even perceptible at all.

And in some cases, like with the Se7en: Platinum Series, the DD track is actually better than the DTS track.

ProfessorEcho

I just hope that whatever new formats come out they are, at least for a few years, compatible with the current state of DVD technology, in other words can still play the DVDs we have in our collections now. This is going to be on a much larger scale than going from Laserdisc to DVD; there are many more technophobes out there who are amassing huge DVD collections and they may decide to just sit tight with what they already have. I want better technology, but a lot of people simply don't care, and these manufacturers are going to have to strike a compromise every now and then or risk going to the well once too often. Ideally, the improved formats won't make current DVDs obsolete for a few more years.

tacomantt

One of these days I am going to be able to plug the video player - directly into my brain. Only then will people start to consider the importance of tetrabits/second entering the canal.

Dammit

Actually they're trying to do away with the need for a cartridge and that's a Good Thing. The cartridges would add to the cost and I've said before how sticking something with moving parts into something else with moving parts is a bad idea and prone to more reliability problems than just using a bare disk. I don't have a single DVD with a significant scratch on it so the protection argument is moot for anyone that takes good care of their disks.

jough

I have several hundred Minidiscs and have never had one problem with the cartridge. I like the idea, as I don't have to treat the disc gingerly or worry about my fingers touching them. CDs and DVDs suffer for being so fragile.

In any case, Blu-Ray will never hit the U.S. market in a cartridge-based form.

Dammit

I have had a few dozen mini-discs and a sony player and had several problems. I live in the desert and dust still manages to get inside those cases and there's no easy way to clean them. I had the opening mechanism malfunction twice on two different discs resulting in the disc getting stuck inside the player which required me to open the player up to get it out. Everything was well taken care of. Could have been the product of the environment I live in. Either way I won't be buying such a format again if I can help it.

I used to use it for mastering in a little home studio I had. Got rid of it and got a DAT instead. Much less trouble. Eventually got rid of that and started using my pc and cd burner.

jough

How do regular CD players stand up in the desert, though? Not very well.

And I'd bet that if you put a Minidisc and a CD in the same pocket you keep your keys in, at the end of a week the CD would be unplayable whereas the MD would be just fine.

Hendrik

...hear! hear!...

(signed) A Fervent MD Fan

. . . . . .

dbmottle

Really? Se7en was one instance where I thought the DTS blew the DD away. It along with Gladiator are the two DVDs that I find the biggest difference between the DTS and DD.

Drexl

I wonder if their 2.35:1 HD titles will be panned and scanned to 1.78:1.

ProfessorEcho

I also believe DTS is better than DOLBY for the most part, though that would be a good topic for another post.

Ever hear the DTS on U-571? The separation was incredible; you thought you were in that sub. Best sounding DVD I've ever heard.

Dammit

CD's hold up brilliantly, actually. Just don't leave one in direct sunlight. Then again, I've seen cassette tapes left in direct sunlight out here that don't fair any better.

You've had good luck with MD's and I'm glad for you. I haven't. We could argue the advantages/disadvantages all day. On one hand, they're protected, on the other they can still get dirty and are difficult to clean, on the other you can throw them around without the case, again on the other they have moving parts that can malfunction etc etc etc.

For DVD's that you don't throw in your pocket with your keys, a bare disk is a better solution in my opinion. They're cheaper to make (very key point there), easier to clean and have no moving parts.