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Spielberg gives lackluster Schindler's List extras, are you surprised?

Spielberg gives lackluster Schindler's List extras, are you surprised?

 
Old 03-04-04, 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by KSC2-303
I just finally watched it yesterday, and I have to say, I was underwhelmed.

It seems to work on emotions already created rather than creating emotions itself. What I mean is you don't feel bad for the Jews because of this movie, you feel bad for the Jews because that's what you've been told to feel. Jews were dehumanized and completely unrelatable in this movie. The difference between Schindler's List and the Pianist in my opinion is that the Jew in Schindler's List is simply the target of Nazi aggression. The Jew in the Pianist is the victim of Nazi aggression.

What people need to address isn't how these horrors of the Holocaust could happen, but WHY they happened. The Holocaust was a horrible solution to a problem, but that doesn't mean a problem didn't exist. Of course, I'll be branded as an anti-semite racist for saying that, but that's the culture we live in.

The only thing I think Schindler's List did better than the Pianist is explain why the Jews were persecuted to begin with in one scene. During the Krakow expulsion, the SS are pushing everyone out of their homes to get them into the trains. In one scene, you see a Jewish family taking diamonds they hid and putting them into bread, eating the bread to save the jewels.

To me, this is a textbook example of why Germans persecuted the Jews. Even in the darkest hour, when there are so many more important things to have, like food, safety, and shelter, these Jews horde their wealth. This classified the Jews as people who even at the doorstep of their own apocalypse still valued money more than everything else. In all honesty, would you feel empathy for a man who values his own personal wealth over the well-being of his family? I wouldn't.

Keep in mind I'm not saying that every Jew was like that, but as far as Germany was concerned, enough Jews were like that to not care about them as a people.

Perhaps I'm just reading a bit into things.
do your parents know you bought this dvd? It is rated R right? You do still have to be 17 to buy R rated movies right?

"you feel bad for the Jews because that's what you've been told to feel."

REALLY, I don't always do what I'm told. I usually try and make some decisions on my own. Maybe pick up a book about a subject, or watch a documentary, or even take a class about it.
But definitely do one of these things before making statements like these.

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Old 03-04-04, 05:36 PM
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I'm a big Spielberg fan and I have almost all of his films that are available on DVD, and most of them are great DVDs. Granted, Hook, Always, and Saving Private Ryan didn't have many supplements (though Ryan will in about two months), but almost all of the others have had some awesome documentaries and behind the scenes stuff. Unlike a lot of DVD that just contain fluff (some bloopers, deleted scenes, trailers, HBO making of) most Spielberg flicks go behind the camera, interviews with the actors, director, producer, composer, cinematographer, production team, etc. Plus, they all have segments almost entirely devoted to a different section of filmmaking which is really cool (look at Minority Report, AI, The Color Purple, Close Encounter's documentary/deleted scenes, the great Indy documentary, Jurassic Park documentary, Catch Me If You Can, etc.).

Sure, it disappointes me that Schindler's List does not have a ton of supplements but it doesn't need to. The supplements it does have reinforce the film with the interviews and retrospects of the people the movie was about. It does not surprise me that Spielberg did not put as much making of and behind the camera information on this movie as he did on most of the others. I remember even reading he didn't except a single amount of profit from the film, calling it "blood money." I'm sure he thought extensive making of information would be doing a severe dis-service to the film. Of course, just my two cents.
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Old 03-04-04, 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Matt Millheiser
You have completely and utterly misinterpreted that scene.

Jews in the Holocaust did not hide and horde their gold and diamonds simply because of their love of money over anything else, because of greed or love of wealth.

They did so in order to have some kind of means in which they could survive: bribe guards, get food for their family, procure a means of escape, whatever it took in order to stay alive.

During many of the transports to various concentration camps, Jewish prisoners attempted to bribe guards to look the other way during their escape attempt with whatever precious jewels they were able to smuggle out with them. Most of them were shot anyhow.

To imply that the scene is meant to convey that Jews, even at the brink of death, still valued money and greed above their own lives is kind of preposterous. I'm not making a character judgment on you, KSC, I don't think you had any malicious and mean-spirited intent at all. But man, that's a serious misinterpretation...
I know that wasn't the way Spielberg attempted to make display it, but it's what I took out of it.

None of us were there, so we can't really describe the state of mind. But from what I've experienced through various forms of media, there were constant rumors which never made the situation you were in seem good.

What I mean is that basically being in a concentrated ghetto, forced to live in massively overcrowded apartments with no working utilities, little food, being forced to give up all your worldy possessions, forced labor, etc, all the negative things that came with ghetto life...well, why would you continue to horde things when you're already in such a horrific situation? The situation in the ghetto was bad enough that there was absolutely no way you could rationalize hording gold and jewels instead of food.

Another example is in the film "The Grey Zone". It not so many words, one Jew wants a diamond necklace. Why? Because he still wants to have something of value in the outside world because he thinks he can survive.

Originally posted by scott1598
For what you have said you are a f***ing idiot. I am sorry for saying such a disparaging word and i am not capable of saying such a thing, but that is all i can say of a god damn r**ist such as yourself. "a horrible solution to a problem" "not to say a problem didn't exist"?????? i cannot believe you actually uttered those lines in a forum such as this. Neither movie explained "WHY" they were persecuted!! Because there is no reason "WHY"!!! except for a raving madman...i got to stop..sir or madam whatever you are..you need to get the hell out of this thread and take a look at yourself and if you think you are not a r**ist i would check yourself you freggin moron!!
Yep.

No reason to persecute the Jews.

Let's ignore the anti-semitism that has existed for centuries, no, MILLENIA, throughout the world. Everyone in the world loved Jews up until Hitler.

Let's ignore the economic depression and national humilation of 1920s Germany that made the Great Depression look like a ****ing tea party.

Did you know that the price of an egg during the post-WW1 German depression was inflated 30 MILLION TIMES? How would you be able to survive if you went to go buy food and 1 grocery bag would cost you a few billion dollars?

Do yourself a favor, and research the reasons behind the Nazi rise to power and post WW1 Germany. Contrary to what you may think, Germans were not evil people seeking to hunt down Jews because Satan told them to.

To relate it to modern times, the Jews were to post-WW1 Germans as to Enron/Tyco/Worldcom CEOs are to present day Americans.

Originally posted by ivelostr2
do your parents know you bought this dvd? It is rated R right? You do still have to be 17 to buy R rated movies right?

"you feel bad for the Jews because that's what you've been told to feel."

REALLY, I don't always do what I'm told. I usually try and make some decisions on my own. Maybe pick up a book about a subject, or watch a documentary, or even take a class about it.
But definitely do one of these things before making statements like these.
Jesus Christ, I hate when people misinterpret what I say this badly.

If you make opinions on your own, but the material given to you to make those decisions are all biased, how can you form an unbiased opinion?

A few schools were talking about making "Hitler: The Rise of Evil" a program shown in history classes in HS. I recently watched the abysmally inaccurate and biased piece of made-for-TV trash and have to say that it's decisions like that that help cement ignorance into the public consciousness.

As an example, the 4 hour movie condenses Hitler's entire childhood to about 5 minutes. Don't you think you need a little more than 5 minutes to do an accurate character study?

Last edited by KSC2-303; 03-04-04 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 03-04-04, 05:52 PM
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I don't really mind the lack of behind the scenes material on this DVD. The 80-minute historical documentary doesn't sound like something to simply forget about. It's a personal film and I doubt Spielberg would have wanted a documentary with actors talking about all the funny behind the scenes stories.

Given the fact that his recent DVDs at least contain a good 90 minutes of behind the scenes material, it would seem that the reason why this doesn't have anything like that was a decision made by Spielberg.

Also, it's true that his more recent discs seem to be more on the fluffy side, but I really liked the material on A.I. and Indiana Jones. A.I. in perticular goes into a good deal of depth on the creation of the technical aspects of the film.
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Old 03-04-04, 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by Pants
Raiders/Minoirty Report/Catch Me.../Jurasic Park/Lost World: All pretty fluff filled.
Calling the documentaries on those DVDs "fluff" is being too harsh. There may be a promo interview somewhere in each of those but they each give a very in-depth behind-the-scenes look.
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Old 03-04-04, 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by scott1598
For what you have said you are a f***ing idiot. I am sorry for saying such a disparaging word and i am not capable of saying such a thing, but that is all i can say of a god damn r**ist such as yourself. "a horrible solution to a problem" "not to say a problem didn't exist"?????? i cannot believe you actually uttered those lines in a forum such as this. Neither movie explained "WHY" they were persecuted!! Because there is no reason "WHY"!!! except for a raving madman...i got to stop..sir or madam whatever you are..you need to get the hell out of this thread and take a look at yourself and if you think you are not a r**ist i would check yourself you freggin moron!!
This is a forum. People have the right to express their thoughts and opinions openly. If you don't agree, state that in a respectful manner. It's obvious that you're uneducated in this matter, or at least undereducated, so it makes you look inane when you post comments like these. Think before you post.

By the way, I'm not saying I agree with what KSC2-303 said, I'm just choosing not to reply to him directly.
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Old 03-04-04, 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by Rizor
I don't really mind the lack of behind the scenes material on this DVD. The 80-minute historical documentary doesn't sound like something to simply forget about. It's a personal film and I doubt Spielberg would have wanted a documentary with actors talking about all the funny behind the scenes stories.

Given the fact that his recent DVDs at least contain a good 90 minutes of behind the scenes material, it would seem that the reason why this doesn't have anything like that was a decision made by Spielberg.

Also, it's true that his more recent discs seem to be more on the fluffy side, but I really liked the material on A.I. and Indiana Jones. A.I. in perticular goes into a good deal of depth on the creation of the technical aspects of the film.
I think one of the reasons that the Schindler's List extras are being discredited is because it's very much "been there, done that" ala the History Channel. It's not bringing anything new to the table.

Black Hawk Down 3 Disc SE had a commentary with people involved in the film and people involved in the actual battle. We saw History Channel featurettes talking about the technical aspects of the battle along with why it happened in the first place. Perhaps such an extensive DVD on a historical event has set an almost unreachable watermark for most historical films to be released on DVD in the future.

As for the Shoah feature, it's more of a commercial than extra.

Now, I haven't seen it, so I could be wrong, but this is from what I heard.
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Old 03-04-04, 06:01 PM
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Jesus Christ, I hate when people misinterpret what I say this badly.
Maybe you need to write better to clearly communicate what you want to say. Honestly, I am disgusted by what you wrote in page 1 of this thread. Your reasoning was not necessarily wrong but your tone of voice was condescending. I just cannot believe that I would still be reading racist comment in a public forum like this.

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Old 03-04-04, 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by KSC2-303
\To relate it to modern times, the Jews were to post-WW1 Germans as to Enron/Tyco/Worldcom CEOs are to present day Americans.
So...to apply your logic, if Americans, and others taken advantage of by Enron's CEOs were to round up ALL the CEOs they could before they escaped, and put them in camps with bad conditions and incinerate a few here and there at our descretion; It would be alright. this would be reasonable, not right, you never asaid it was right, but you did say it was within reason; they had reasons for doing it, and you cited those reasons. So it must have been reasonable. does this work for you, Am i correct?
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Old 03-04-04, 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by KSC2-303
I just finally watched it yesterday, and I have to say, I was underwhelmed.

It seems to work on emotions already created rather than creating emotions itself. What I mean is you don't feel bad for the Jews because of this movie, you feel bad for the Jews because that's what you've been told to feel. Jews were dehumanized and completely unrelatable in this movie. The difference between Schindler's List and the Pianist in my opinion is that the Jew in Schindler's List is simply the target of Nazi aggression. The Jew in the Pianist is the victim of Nazi aggression.

What people need to address isn't how these horrors of the Holocaust could happen, but WHY they happened. The Holocaust was a horrible solution to a problem, but that doesn't mean a problem didn't exist. Of course, I'll be branded as an anti-semite racist for saying that, but that's the culture we live in.

The only thing I think Schindler's List did better than the Pianist is explain why the Jews were persecuted to begin with in one scene. During the Krakow expulsion, the SS are pushing everyone out of their homes to get them into the trains. In one scene, you see a Jewish family taking diamonds they hid and putting them into bread, eating the bread to save the jewels.

To me, this is a textbook example of why Germans persecuted the Jews. Even in the darkest hour, when there are so many more important things to have, like food, safety, and shelter, these Jews horde their wealth. This classified the Jews as people who even at the doorstep of their own apocalypse still valued money more than everything else. In all honesty, would you feel empathy for a man who values his own personal wealth over the well-being of his family? I wouldn't.

Keep in mind I'm not saying that every Jew was like that, but as far as Germany was concerned, enough Jews were like that to not care about them as a people.

Perhaps I'm just reading a bit into things.
Then in this thread

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...93#post4624293

Originally posted by KSC2-303
Where did you find it?
So on 03-04-04 09:42 AM you're still looking fot the DVD, yet at 03-04-04 01:57 PM You just watched it yesterday.

&
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Old 03-04-04, 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by scott1598
First off, I have to say that a masterpiece like this needs no extras. Period!!

When I first saw this in theaters one Christmas eve I did not think of it as a movie, but more of an experience. Period!

The overwhelming impact that this movie should have for anyone of any race, color or religion should be nothing less than awe. Now it may be awe in a good way or a bad way, but awe nonetheless (it is up to the viewer to decide). Much like the impact I am sure an experience like "Passion of the Christ" would make, which I have yet to experience myself.

So anyone needing extras or filler for a piece of art like this simply does not understand the emotional depth and overwhelming impact (again negative or positive) something like this presentation holds. Period!

Although, I must admit that the packaging (a thin digipak book type case) does look pretty nice and definitely stands out. Though people will criticize I am sure when they do see it, but I for one think it is very apropos.
With all due respect Schindler's List is not the penultiment transcendent experience of all cinema; untouchable and absolute in its perfection.

Besides, equally powerful films that touch upon devistating tragedies of the past or important religious subjects (Hiroshima Mon Amor, Stalker, The Pianist, The Grey Zone, Night and Fog, Winter Light) offered DVD's with supplements and didn't somehow compromise their purity.

Last edited by Pants; 03-04-04 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 03-04-04, 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by scott1598
For what you have said you are a f***ing idiot. I am sorry for saying such a disparaging word and i am not capable of saying such a thing, but that is all i can say of a god damn r**ist such as yourself. "a horrible solution to a problem" "not to say a problem didn't exist"?????? i cannot believe you actually uttered those lines in a forum such as this. Neither movie explained "WHY" they were persecuted!! Because there is no reason "WHY"!!! except for a raving madman...i got to stop..sir or madam whatever you are..you need to get the hell out of this thread and take a look at yourself and if you think you are not a r**ist i would check yourself you freggin moron!!
This sort of name calling is not tolerated in this forum...
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Old 03-04-04, 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by hoyalawya
Maybe you need to write better to clearly communicate what you want to say. Honestly, I am disgusted by what you wrote in page 1 of this thread. Your reasoning was not necessarily wrong but your tone of voice was condescending. I just cannot believe that I would still be reading racist comment in a public forum like this.
Clearly communicate? I'm sorry, but I was so clear in my 2nd (my first post was simply asking about Spielberg DVDs) post that you have to have a learning disability to not understand it.

Or simply fill in the blanks with what I said to what you want to hear.

I mean, seriously. How could it have disgusted you? The fact that I said Germans didn't like Jews, and that's why they were persecuting them, rather than the a-typical "Germans are all evil with absolutely no rational to what they did"? I didn't try to justify what they did, I was telling you why they justified it.

How was it racist? Because I told you what someone else was thinking? Doesn't that make the other person racist? Haven't you heard the expression "don't kill the messenger"?

If anyone is racist in this issue, it's people who automatically brand anyone a racist who doesn't mindlessly agree that the Nazis were pure evil brought upon by Satan and the persecution of the Jews was only brought upon by said evil.

Originally posted by ivelostr2
So...to apply your logic, if Americans, and others taken advantage of by Enron's CEOs were to round up ALL the CEOs they could before they escaped, and put them in camps with bad conditions and incinerate a few here and there at our descretion; It would be alright. this would be reasonable, not right, you never asaid it was right, but you did say it was within reason; they had reasons for doing it, and you cited those reasons. So it must have been reasonable. does this work for you, Am i correct?
Gee, I don't know. Might want to ask all the people clamoring for the death penalty for all those CEOs whose unmatched greed forced thousands of people into the poor house.

Ask around. Ask your friends and family, and ask them what you think the punishment should be for these CEOs. I think you'll be surprised at their response, because I've heard "death penalty, no questions asked" a lot more than I've heard "a short prison term where they get their loot when they get out".

And by the way, I never said it was reasonable to annihilate the Jews. I said it was "a horrible solution to a problem", not a reasonable one. Is it really that unreasonable to feel the desire to persecute the people you felt brought upon your downfall?

Originally posted by island007
Then in this thread

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...93#post4624293



So on 03-04-04 09:42 AM you're still looking fot the DVD, yet at 03-04-04 01:57 PM You just watched it yesterday.

&
Actually, I made a mistake. I watched it 2 days ago. Yesterday I had work followed by school, so I wouldn't have had the time to squeeze in a 3.5 hour movie in my 2 hours of downtime between work and school.

I watched it Tuesday, because I only had work.
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Old 03-04-04, 06:19 PM
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Gee, I don't know. Might want to ask all the people clamoring for the death penalty for all those CEOs whose unmatched greed forced thousands of people into the poor house.
Those people are called fascists.
rather than the typical "Germans are all evil with absolutely no rational to what they did"?
So you see there being a rational to what the Germans did? That if we could just understand this rational then we would understand that blaiming the Germans is just a big missunderstanding.

BTW, I don't just blame the Germans for the Holocaust I also blame the Austrians, Italians, and French. Thank you.

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Old 03-04-04, 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by KSC2-303
The Holocaust was a horrible solution to a problem, but that doesn't mean a problem didn't exist. Of course, I'll be branded as an anti-semite racist for saying that, but that's the culture we live in.
So you said that Jews were a problem and that they should not have lived their lives the way that YOU or the German Nazis see fit.

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Old 03-04-04, 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by Pants
Those people are called fascists.
fas·cism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fshzm)
n.
often Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.

How, praytell, is wanting to punish someone for commiting a crime, fascism?

Please explain this to me.
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Old 03-04-04, 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by KSC2-303
Ask around. Ask your friends and family, and ask them what you think the punishment should be for these CEOs. I think you'll be surprised at their response, because I've heard "death penalty, no questions asked" a lot more than I've heard "a short prison term where they get their loot when they get out".
I have no idea who your friends and family are, but I can't imagine anyone being serious about that.
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Old 03-04-04, 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by KSC2-303

How, praytell, is wanting to punish someone for commiting a crime, fascism?

Please explain this to me.
Suggesting that execution is a suitable punishment for purgery and robbery would be a grossly exagerated punishment from the government. I don't want to live in a country where the government hands out punishments that don't fit the crime. Perhaps you'd prefer Singapore.

In order for a punishment like that to be handed out, a government would have to have a centralized authority under stringent countrol of the economy and media that would suppress all opposition to such an extreme punishment. Anyone advocating that kind of punishment is, by proxy, advocating a fascist government.

But what do I know, I'm just one of those too smart intellectuals that you would round up first.

Oh yeah, P.S. F*** Off and Eat S***!!! To hell with DVDTalk rules you suck.

Last edited by Pants; 03-04-04 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 03-04-04, 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by hoyalawya
So you said that Jews were a problem and that they should not have lived their lives the way that YOU see fit.



If this is not gross generalization, what is?
I didn't say the Jews were a problem.

Germany's economic depression was the problem.

The way the average German saw a Jew was how the average American sees a CEO who profits while everyone below him suffers. Sure, it was a complete cop-out to let a few bad apples spoil it for the bunch, but the Nazi propaganda made it so that there was no such thing as a good Jew or bad Jew, just a Jew.

I'll admit, I could have worded my original statement better.

As for the other statement, a gross generalization, yes, but that is what the German state of mind regarding the Jew WAS. Germans saw Jews as people who would value their own material wealth over doing the right thing.

But why am I even saying this? You'll just replace "Germans" with a personal pronoun anyway.

I'm sorry I can't go back in time and collectively change the opinions of an entire country. Just stop confusing my opinion with the opinions of other people I'm trying to get across, okay?

Originally posted by Pants
Suggesting that execution is a suitable punishment for purgery and robbery would be a grossly exagerated punishment from the government. I don't want to live in a country where the government hands out punishments that don't fit the crime. Perhaps you'd prefer Singapore.
It's not like these guys robbed an old lady's purse, or held up a convenience store. Their crimes impacted the entire country, thousands, if not MILLIONS of lives.

So do you think it is better to beat 1,000 people into a coma than to kill one?

Personally, I judge crimes based on their scope. A rape of a single girl or a murder, while horrible crimes in of themselves, I judge as lower than a crime the negatively impacting millions of people on a smaller scale.

But that's just me.
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Old 03-04-04, 06:35 PM
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I'm closing this thread as it's turned ugly.

KSC2-303 what you've said is awful, ugly and hateful. Dressing it up and tip toeing around doesn't make it any more palitable.
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