I have a Toshiba 57", and when I first got it a few years ago, I either had to watch it w/ grey bars or stretch it. But the DVD I player I later got, automatically will put black bars on the sides of 4:3 discs and will also automatically fit an anamorphic disc to fill the screen. Very easy. So I don't stretch anything. At least on DVDs

Normal TV however, at least non-HD channels, I still stretch some, but it's actually pretty minimal

Someday, when 16x9 is the only choice for Televisions, will people start complaining about the black bars on the sides of their favorite old tv shows or movies that werent quite widescreen, even in their OAR?

I just watch it whatever way the disc/show was intended. If that means I have a FS version of "The Jerk" (only one available) than I watch it that way. Don't like to stretch.

Can you elaborate? What do you mean by "no black bars ever"? What is X-Y scaling? And how do you watch 4:3 films?

Stretch Mode = Joe 16x9 Pack

Baracine: You stretch The Rules of the Game? You should be ashamed of yourself.

The feature on the Jaton DVD player (which I purchased from HKflix.com) allows the viewer to do whatever they'd like to a picture thanks to X - Y scaling. You can stretch the picture horizontal or vertical in small increments - however you'd like. Of course you will lose some off the top or sides depending on the aspect ratio. However, it's your choice what you'd like to lose or how you want to frame your picture. I can't recommend the Jaton enough - it's an all region player, has progressive scan and plays PAL discs anamorphic.

Never, black bars don't bother me.

I have the Malata N996 with X-Y scaling and I never lose any picture... so I guess I am not sure what you mean here. True X-Y scaling you should not lose any picture to fill your screen, that is what it is there for...

ASK AN EXPERT...

I just asked Mr. Michael Bourne, who is my favourite salesperson at Toronto's premier electronics store, Bay Bloor Radio, and he had this to say:

THE VERTICAL BLACK BARS IN 4:3 MODE ARE NOT GENERATED BY THE DVD PLAYER. THEY ARE A PASSIVE REACTION OF THE CATHODE RAY TUBE OR PLASMA SCREEN. THEY CAN'T BE DUPLICATED IN REAR-PROJECTION. FURTHERMORE, PLAYING TOO MANY MOVIES IN 4:3 MODE ON A REAR-PROJECTION TV CAN CAUSE BURN-IN.

So the poster who suggested a felt strip curtain was absolutely right. It's the only solution so far.

But looking to the future, when 16X9 is standard, there might come a day when 4:3 movies will be encoded like the 16X9 anamorphic movies of today so that when they are stretched out horizontally they will display the 4:3 picture surrounded by DVD-generated black bars without loss of vertical resolution. It will be up to the user to zoom in on this picture or do to it all those horrible manipulations that the purists are damning us for.

I'm not... My humble opinion: If Jean Renoir could have used widescreen, he would have. Every one of his scenes is so crammed with people and lateral action (people moving left and right) that the widescreen stretch makes the film even more enjoyable.

Jean Renoir certainly turned to colour with a vengeance in almost all his later films and was an early proponent of the 1.66:1 aspect ratio (for 35 mm spherical film) which eventually became the European standard.

Could someone post links to images of this supposedly great stretch mode on Toshiba TVs? I'd like to see how the image looks.

1000% Incorrect. When I had PS2 hooked up, I got white bars, the panny has black bars. Same settings. I do stretch broadcast TV because the bars are white and I don't want to risk burn in.

Oh! I forgot! Salespeople are the MOST knowledgeable about these things. Sigh.

to me changing the aspect of 4:3 to fit a wide screen TV is just as bad as when people complain about the black bars on a regular TV. Wide Screen or 4:3, the picture is meant to be watched in its original aspect ratio. The bars on sides don't bother me, a distorded or cropped picture does.

what is really messed up is when I watch a P&S movie on HBO or something that is cropped for a standard TV and I have the bars on the side.

Right on! Great topic, thanks for bringing this up. Whatever makes you happy, I say. If the stretched mode looked screwy, I could understand, but I think it looks great, can't notice anything weird at all.

Think I'll watch Citizen Kane tonight... stretched, of course!

You don't use expand mode on non-anamorphic widescreen? That feature makes for a perfect OAR, but of course without the extra resolution. Do you watch these with the black bars on top+bottom, and the gray bars on either side?

I have to admit I watch 4x3 in the "Expand" mode(it does cut off a little top/bottom info but adds left and right info, I don't know why, can't find an adequate explanation) on my Mit 65711.

I know you shouldn't, everything should be watched in its OAR, but you get spoiled and you want your screen filled.

It takes a little getting used to but I just don't like the vertical gray bars...and for some reason the horizonal black bars are okay.

Maybe it's because you are seeing everything and you are deciding what you want to see, not someone doing it for you?

Says who? Some nerd on an internet message board?

Watch what looks good to you. I have a 42 inch Sony LCD projection TV, and watch 4x3 programming in "wide zoom" mode, which slightly stretches the sides of the picture and slightly crops the top and the bottom of the screen. Very rarely do I notice a really distorted face.

For me, it's a case by case basis. I have a Panasonic plasma that has a very nice "Just" mode like most 16x9's seem to have today. Most of the network TV shows I watch I can get in HD, but for those I can't, I stretch. Same goes for most TV shows I have on DVD.

However, maybe it's the movie snob in me, I can't bring myself to stretch a 4x3 classic like Citizen Kane or the Wizard of Oz.

I also have a 50" Toshiba 16:9 set. The stretch modes for 4:3 are very very good. No complaints.

I never watch with the bars on the sides.

won't that make the people look thin/squished?

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I think the reason is historical. The North-American TV code, called the NTSC code, includes directives to broadcasters on how to broadcast a 4:3 frame and how TV manufacturers should adjust their framing devices accordingly to "overscan" that broadcast picture, that is to zoom in a little on it so that some part of the picture is "wasted" or "bled" on the sides (and probably on top, but that is less certain)..

On some TVs, this is adjustable. But apparently not on the 4:3 mode of widescreen TVs, which allows them to dazzle you, in "stretch" mode by bringing in that side information you never see in the regular 4:3 mode.

This "overscanning" was intended to compensate for frequent errors in centering the picture for broadcast and to prevent the apparition of (wait for it!) ugly black bars on the sides.

DVDs don't automatically compensate for that "overscanning" because it is always possible the TV they are played on doesn't have it.

No. The new Sony Wega's are able to display anamorphic widescreen DVDs with all the scan lines instead of every fourth line being dropped like normal 4X3 TVs.

The increase in detail is amazing.

From the Sony site

I suggest you try Dorothy's arrival in Oz in JUST mode. I guarantee you it will be like seeing this film for the first time. "You are there", and it ain't Kansas, baby!

In my whole collection of 4:3 classics, I only have a "continuity" problem with one scene in Hitchcock's "Rebecca" and that's the arrival of the newlyweds' tiny car underneath the tall, imposing facade of Manderley in the rain. The car is barely visible in my "Theater Wide 1" mode (Toshiba). But if i use the "Theater Wide 3" mode (designed to compress a 1.66:1 picture into 1.77:1), I can scroll down to see all the car I want and even some shrubs that don't appear in the normal picture and Manderley castle looks even more imposing (though you don't see its turrets).

What is PS2 and what is a "panny" and is your TV rear-projection?

WOW

PS2= Playstation 2
Panny = Panasonic

Wow!

I was going to ask, "what is WOW?" but thanks. I know what a "video game console" is. I was the first person in the world to translate the Atari game instructions to French back in 1984.

That still doesn't tell me if Qui Gon Jim is talking about a rear-projection TV or CRT or plasma? He never mentioned it but I assumed that he meant "rear-projection" from the context of his posts in the "Alice" thread that got this ball rolling. But we're making progress here. My salesperson, "talking out of his ass", as usual (to quote Qui Gon Jim from the other thread), says he is going to confirm his information with a Toshiba representative on Monday and let me know.

Until we get those answers, the burning question is now this: IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE WHO OWNS A REAR-PROJECTION WIDESCREEN TV AND WHOSE DVD PLAYER GENERATES VERTICAL BLACK SIDE BARS IN 4:3 MODE? Anybody?