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Are DVDs safe stored in sub-zero temperature?

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Are DVDs safe stored in sub-zero temperature?

 
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Old 01-07-04 | 04:59 AM
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From: Southern NH
Found this on some newsgroup at Stanford:
-----------------------------------------
There is a standard for optical media storage: ISO 18925:2002 Imaging Materials - Optical Disc Media - Storage Practices. It is available for purchase from the ISO store: http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/prods-servi...re/store.html.

According to "Preservation Management of Digital Materials" by Maggie Jones and Neil Beagrie (published by the British Library in 2001 and available online here: http://www.dpconline.org/graphics/handbook/), optical media should be stored under the following conditions:


10 to 50°C and 10 to 80% RH for the access environment
-10 to 50°C and 5 to 90% RH for the "non-operating environment"
18 to 22°C and 35 to 45% RH for long-term storage.

------------------------
Down to -10 C is pretty darn cold. I can't imagine your basement is colder than that.

According to that you should be fine.
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Old 01-07-04 | 11:30 AM
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A very cold (even down to sub-zero fahrenheit) storage environment will really only have a notable physical effect on organic materials - ie, those which contain water molecules which readily freeze at such temperatures. Inorganic materials, such as the plastic that DVD's are made of, don't go through any significant physical change until very low temperatures - much closer to absolute zero (0 degrees kelvin) than any temperature you're likely to achieve in your cellar (assuming you don't live in atop a mountain in Antarctica or something).

And the presumption that it is necessary to "thaw out" cold DVD's before using them is just plain ridiculous from a scientific standpoint.
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Old 01-07-04 | 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by Sex Fiend
A very cold (even down to sub-zero fahrenheit) storage environment will really only have a notable physical effect on organic materials - ie, those which contain water molecules which readily freeze at such temperatures. Inorganic materials, such as the plastic that DVD's are made of, don't go through any significant physical change until very low temperatures - much closer to absolute zero (0 degrees kelvin) than any temperature you're likely to achieve in your cellar (assuming you don't live in atop a mountain in Antarctica or something).

And the presumption that it is necessary to "thaw out" cold DVD's before using them is just plain ridiculous from a scientific standpoint.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking this. About the only reasonable explanation behind the "thawing out" philosophy (that I can think of) is to prevent moisture in the warm air from condensing on the cold discs.
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Old 01-07-04 | 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by Sex Fiend
A very cold (even down to sub-zero fahrenheit) storage environment will really only have a notable physical effect on organic materials - ie, those which contain water molecules which readily freeze at such temperatures. Inorganic materials, such as the plastic that DVD's are made of, don't go through any significant physical change until very low temperatures - much closer to absolute zero (0 degrees kelvin) than any temperature you're likely to achieve in your cellar (assuming you don't live in atop a mountain in Antarctica or something).

And the presumption that it is necessary to "thaw out" cold DVD's before using them is just plain ridiculous from a scientific standpoint.
Plastic/vinyl/etc DOES become brittle as it gets colder. Here's some science for you, though it does not mention DVDs specifically:
http://www.psrc.usm.edu/macrog/tg.htm
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Old 01-07-04 | 03:44 PM
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From: Electric Ladyland
Originally posted by Quatermass
Plastic/vinyl/etc DOES become brittle as it gets colder. Here's some science for you, though it does not mention DVDs specifically:
http://www.psrc.usm.edu/macrog/tg.htm
True enough. But ONLY at a significantly low temperature. All inorganic materials have a freezing point at which their molecular bonding integrity breaks down, just as they have boiling/melting point at which they will liquefy -- which is why dipping almost anything in liquid nitrogen will turn it to peanut brittle. However, for virtually all inorganic materials (polymers included) the temperatures to reach such a state are much more extreme than typically required to achieve the same effect in organic materials, and certainly much more extreme than any one would encounter in a typical indoor environment where DVD's would be stored (unless one is keeping their DVD's in a deep freezer).

I think the issue here is whether statically exposing your DVD's to environmentally uncomfortable indoor (yet non-extreme) temperatures has any negative effect on them. I'm quite sure such an effect would be neglible at worst. I wouldn't recommend leaving them outside in the snow, but unless you are planning to cryonically freeze them, they should be quite alright just stored in your basement.
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Old 01-07-04 | 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by Quatermass
Plastic/vinyl/etc DOES become brittle as it gets colder. Here's some science for you, though it does not mention DVDs specifically:
http://www.psrc.usm.edu/macrog/tg.htm
it's not dvds maybe...but I've had a ton of plastic cracks with my moving company. clients will ask me to carry plastic storage containers(actually...anything made of 100% plastic) and I warn them of the dangers in the winter. proof in point: 1 week ago it was about 5 degrees on the moving truck. a client thought I was nuts and said I would'nt be blamed if his containers cracked while on my truck. I made him come on the truck and remove them himself....after about a 1 hour drive. he picked up the un-damaged case...and it cracked as soon as he lifted. it's common sense. of course the windchill was like -40!!

But ONLY at a significantly low temperature.
I'm sorry, but to me...SUB-ZERO is low enough. IMHO

Last edited by gutwrencher; 01-07-04 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 01-08-04 | 02:14 PM
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That is a combination of cold and physical stress. I doubt we are talking about physical stress on a DVD in a case.

2 points:
Be more cautious about pulling a DVD out of the case when cold. Due to increased brittleness. Obviously a case with a used/looser spindle will prevent this anyway.

Avoid water and cold. Water expands when freezing, unlike all other materials. This is why cold (normal cold, not LOX or nitrogen) destroys things; water gets in, freezes/expands, and breaks the item in question. Shouldn't be too much of a problem as DVDs are sealed.
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Old 01-08-04 | 02:31 PM
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First, I never called anyone a liar in this thread. In response to an individual who stated some members had said they boiled DVD's, without providing any source, I responded that some people lie online. This is true. I have no way of knowing who said this about boiling, nor am I obligated to research it in order to challenge an unsourced claim.

Second, sub-zero temperatures are very cold. Most basements are not sub-zero. Mine is not. I would not store any valuables in sub-zero temperatures at all.
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Old 01-08-04 | 03:01 PM
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From: Electric Ladyland
Originally posted by EPKJ
...I would not store any valuables in sub-zero temperatures at all.
Ted Williams' head is stored at sub-zero temperatures. What, that's not valuable ??
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Old 01-08-04 | 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by Sex Fiend
Ted Williams' head is stored at sub-zero temperatures. What, that's not valuable ??
Well, I tried to sell it on eBay once, but nobody bid . . .
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Old 01-08-04 | 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by EPKJ
First, I never called anyone a liar in this thread. In response to an individual who stated some members had said they boiled DVD's, without providing any source, I responded that some people lie online. This is true. I have no way of knowing who said this about boiling, nor am I obligated to research it in order to challenge an unsourced claim.

Second, sub-zero temperatures are very cold. Most basements are not sub-zero. Mine is not. I would not store any valuables in sub-zero temperatures at all.
So the fact that I have stated that I have boiled and am suggesting boiling as a possible methodology for cleaning DVDs relegates me to now being "an unsourced claim". Amazing.

I never said that you called me a liar. Here's what I said:

I know that I shouldn't get upset regarding this statement, but being somewhat of a long time member of this forum I find that I'm bothered by the inferment that I / others have lied in regards to boiling.

I further explain why your and other's statements bother me. Perhaps next time something along the lines of this statement should be stated:

"I myself am incredulous regading this _______ method. Perhaps it would be in your best interest to do a search to see if there if any more corroborating evidence and then see for yourself as to whether or not you want to test it's merits".

I will state it again: I do NOT post here at DVDTalk in the hopes that other DVDTalkers will ruin their DVD collections. I post here to share relevant information and to gain same.

I've said enough on this topic.

Again, I am having no playback problems with any of my DVDs that are being stored in my cold attic.
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Old 01-08-04 | 06:36 PM
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I had a bad disc once and I boiled it for 2 minutes. I sh_t you not. It worked. Really.

Next, I had a bad DVD-R and tried it again. This time boiling fixed the read errors for about 5 minutes. After repeated heating and cooling sessions I was able to get my data.

True it is.
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Old 01-08-04 | 09:04 PM
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Re: Re: Are DVDs safe stored in sub-zero temperature?

Exactly...???

Unless thats where your porn collection is hidden?

Originally posted by talemyn
I am a little curious (and very surprised that no one has asked yet) . . . why are you storing DVD's in your cellar?
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Old 01-09-04 | 06:55 AM
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"Ted Williams' head is stored at sub-zero temperatures. What, that's not valuable ??"

This statement combined with your chosen nickname, Sex Fiend, causes me not to inquire why you might consider a frozen head valuable.
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Old 01-09-04 | 06:58 AM
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"People mentioned in this forum that they hard boil their DVDs. So I reckon they will survive a deep freeze as well."

My post was in response to the above post by eau, speedy1961. You would know that if you actually bothered to read the thread instead of waxing sarcastic. Eau's statement was unsourced. My reply was completely appropriate and did not call anyone a liar.
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Old 01-09-04 | 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by EPKJ
"People mentioned in this forum that they hard boil their DVDs. So I reckon they will survive a deep freeze as well."

My post was in response to the above post by eau, speedy1961. You would know that if you actually bothered to read the thread instead of waxing sarcastic. Eau's statement was unsourced. My reply was completely appropriate and did not call anyone a liar.
Thanks for responding definitively again EPKJ. Your response proves again what I suspected. That you truly are a BMKIA.

Thanks.
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Old 01-09-04 | 01:06 PM
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"Thanks for responding definitively again EPKJ. Your response proves again what I suspected. That you truly are a BMKIA."

No, my response proves that you were wrong in your sarcastic accusations since my post was made in reference to someone other than you. Now accept reality and move on.
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Old 01-09-04 | 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by EPKJ
Eau's statement was unsourced.
I didn't make the statement. I simply recalled what's already mentioned previously. The Source...

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...77#post4397677
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Old 01-09-04 | 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by eau
I didn't make the statement. I simply recalled what's already mentioned previously. The Source...

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...77#post4397677
When you repeat advice, you are stating it
Thank you for the source.
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