Article on Criterion in Nov. 11 Chicago Tribune
11-11-03, 06:59 PM
#27
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Originally posted by slop101
Any chance that the Criterion Altman could be Short Cuts?
Any chance that the Criterion Altman could be Short Cuts?
11-11-03, 07:19 PM
#28
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Originally posted by Ed Crane
Yeah, that John Ford news is just plain neat.
The Searchers!
Yeah, that John Ford news is just plain neat.
The Searchers!
11-11-03, 07:38 PM
#29
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Here's the whole thing.
Back in the laserdisc era, Criterion was one of the first companies to recognize the demand for films shown in their proper aspect ratios, so you can thank them for the black bars that preserve a film's original theatrical image. Criterion also pioneered the use of supplementary material, so you can thank them for audio commentaries and still galleries as well. But all of this came at a price for the independent company, inevitably passed on to the tiny laserdisc consumer base.
"It used to be that we had to scale our work very, very carefully, since there were barely enough laserdisc players to break even after just making a decent master," says Criterion president Peter Becker. "We were certainly early, aggressive pioneers in the development of the special features that have become the standard bells and whistles on a lot of DVDs, but in those days, we could afford to do, say, an elaborate edition of `Silence of the Lambs,' but our edition of `La Strada' really had nothing on it. In fact, if you go back and look at our laserdiscs of the great international classics, many of them have little on them at all in terms of special features."
"I also go back and look at what we sold of certain releases," he added. "`Andrei Rublyov' is a very important film, arguably Tarkovsky's masterpiece, and I think we sold maybe 660 copies of that on laserdisc. When you have to break even on 660 copies, let alone make a profit, it tells you why the list price on something like that had to be $99."
Restoring classic films
Given the massive success of the DVD format, Criterion has had an easier time restoring and distributing classic films from their catalog. "At the height of the laserdisc market, there were maybe a couple of million active players," says Becker. "DVD outstripped that number in its first year. On DVD, the cost barriers aren't nearly as high as they were on laserdisc, so there's the possibility of introducing a lot of new customers to these films and for us to do a level of work that we could never have afforded to do on laserdisc. We didn't have the tools to do nearly as much restoration work then as we do now. Now we're doing most of our digital restoration on a high-definition level and contributing to actual film restoration, so that films can be brought back out in theaters. All of that was [previously] beyond our reach."
In fact, a restored print of Gillo Pontecorvo's "The Battle of Algiers" hits theaters this January before an eventual DVD release. In the meantime, Criterion's most recent DVD releases are as impressive and eclectic as ever. David Cronenberg's mind-bending "Naked Lunch" arrives as a two-disc edition, while Steven Soderbergh's strange "Schizopolis" comes as a single disc packed with special features as surreal as the film itself, such as a commentary track with the director interviewing himself. Jean-Pierre Melville's "Le Cercle Rouge" and Yasujiro Ozu's masterpiece "Tokyo Story" get the double-disc treatment. "A Film Trilogy" and "The BRD Trilogy" are extensively packaged boxed sets dedicated to Ingmar Bergman and Rainer Werner Fassbinder, respectively. Each justifies the long-standing Criterion nickname "film school in a box."
Everyone benefits
Of course, nowadays Criterion is just one of many companies releasing special editions on DVD, but Becker thinks the high standards Criterion set and continues to maintain benefits everyone. "Important preservation work, which was once done by the Academy or under not-for-profit circumstances, is now being carried out by for-profit institutions," he says. "It's really a quite extraordinary moment in that way. Because people are now putting on supplements and seeking out archival elements, and it's really re-invigorated the archives. Everybody's improving their catalog systems and in turn taking in a fair amount of licensing capital that wasn't there before, just because people are taking an interest. It's going to be hugely important for film history."
Given the constant search for the best possible materials -- a pristine print of Carl Dryer's "The Passion of Joan of Arc" was famously found in a Norwegian asylum, and a DVD edition of Jean Renoir's "The Rules of the Game" was postponed until early next year after an original negative was discovered at the last minute -- Becker isn't always at liberty to say just what will and will not show up on DVD from year to year.
"[Laurence Olivier's] `Richard III' has been a monumental effort, and we'll be doing some Robert Altman this year, Samuel Fuller's `Pickup on South Street,' Fritz Lang's `The Testament of Dr. Mobuse' and a dual edition of Ozu's `Floating Weeds' and `A Story of Floating Weeds.' Then we'll be doing some work on [John] Cassavetes and John Ford, plus more Godard, Kurosawa, Renoir . . . and a long-awaited Italian masterpiece. But I don't want to jinx myself, because we haven't got all the stuff we need to finish it."
"It used to be that we had to scale our work very, very carefully, since there were barely enough laserdisc players to break even after just making a decent master," says Criterion president Peter Becker. "We were certainly early, aggressive pioneers in the development of the special features that have become the standard bells and whistles on a lot of DVDs, but in those days, we could afford to do, say, an elaborate edition of `Silence of the Lambs,' but our edition of `La Strada' really had nothing on it. In fact, if you go back and look at our laserdiscs of the great international classics, many of them have little on them at all in terms of special features."
"I also go back and look at what we sold of certain releases," he added. "`Andrei Rublyov' is a very important film, arguably Tarkovsky's masterpiece, and I think we sold maybe 660 copies of that on laserdisc. When you have to break even on 660 copies, let alone make a profit, it tells you why the list price on something like that had to be $99."
Restoring classic films
Given the massive success of the DVD format, Criterion has had an easier time restoring and distributing classic films from their catalog. "At the height of the laserdisc market, there were maybe a couple of million active players," says Becker. "DVD outstripped that number in its first year. On DVD, the cost barriers aren't nearly as high as they were on laserdisc, so there's the possibility of introducing a lot of new customers to these films and for us to do a level of work that we could never have afforded to do on laserdisc. We didn't have the tools to do nearly as much restoration work then as we do now. Now we're doing most of our digital restoration on a high-definition level and contributing to actual film restoration, so that films can be brought back out in theaters. All of that was [previously] beyond our reach."
In fact, a restored print of Gillo Pontecorvo's "The Battle of Algiers" hits theaters this January before an eventual DVD release. In the meantime, Criterion's most recent DVD releases are as impressive and eclectic as ever. David Cronenberg's mind-bending "Naked Lunch" arrives as a two-disc edition, while Steven Soderbergh's strange "Schizopolis" comes as a single disc packed with special features as surreal as the film itself, such as a commentary track with the director interviewing himself. Jean-Pierre Melville's "Le Cercle Rouge" and Yasujiro Ozu's masterpiece "Tokyo Story" get the double-disc treatment. "A Film Trilogy" and "The BRD Trilogy" are extensively packaged boxed sets dedicated to Ingmar Bergman and Rainer Werner Fassbinder, respectively. Each justifies the long-standing Criterion nickname "film school in a box."
Everyone benefits
Of course, nowadays Criterion is just one of many companies releasing special editions on DVD, but Becker thinks the high standards Criterion set and continues to maintain benefits everyone. "Important preservation work, which was once done by the Academy or under not-for-profit circumstances, is now being carried out by for-profit institutions," he says. "It's really a quite extraordinary moment in that way. Because people are now putting on supplements and seeking out archival elements, and it's really re-invigorated the archives. Everybody's improving their catalog systems and in turn taking in a fair amount of licensing capital that wasn't there before, just because people are taking an interest. It's going to be hugely important for film history."
Given the constant search for the best possible materials -- a pristine print of Carl Dryer's "The Passion of Joan of Arc" was famously found in a Norwegian asylum, and a DVD edition of Jean Renoir's "The Rules of the Game" was postponed until early next year after an original negative was discovered at the last minute -- Becker isn't always at liberty to say just what will and will not show up on DVD from year to year.
"[Laurence Olivier's] `Richard III' has been a monumental effort, and we'll be doing some Robert Altman this year, Samuel Fuller's `Pickup on South Street,' Fritz Lang's `The Testament of Dr. Mobuse' and a dual edition of Ozu's `Floating Weeds' and `A Story of Floating Weeds.' Then we'll be doing some work on [John] Cassavetes and John Ford, plus more Godard, Kurosawa, Renoir . . . and a long-awaited Italian masterpiece. But I don't want to jinx myself, because we haven't got all the stuff we need to finish it."
11-11-03, 07:48 PM
#30
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Originally posted by wendersfan
They take really great movies (Grand Illusion, Seven Samurai, Contempt, etc.) and turn out fantastic special editions for them.
A Criterion La Bete Humaine would be awesome. Just the thing to go with Rules of the Game.
They take really great movies (Grand Illusion, Seven Samurai, Contempt, etc.) and turn out fantastic special editions for them.
A Criterion La Bete Humaine would be awesome. Just the thing to go with Rules of the Game.
11-11-03, 07:59 PM
#31
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally posted by wfujosh
I suppose then The Rock and Armageddon are "really great movies".
I suppose then The Rock and Armageddon are "really great movies".
11-11-03, 08:30 PM
#33
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Originally posted by wfujosh
I suppose then The Rock and Armageddon are "really great movies".
I suppose then The Rock and Armageddon are "really great movies".
There are two basic reasons why they did The Rock and Armageddon - 1) Michael Bay is, like many of use here, a Criterion freak, and really wanted to work with the company to do special editions of his films, and 2) Criterion makes a lot of money from those releases, so they can afford to do things like the Brakhage DVD, which probably won't turn a profit ever. Besides, I didn't say the only thing Criterion did was release "really great movies"
11-11-03, 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by talemyn
Exceptional or landmark movies for their genre is probably a better description. Both of those movies do fall under that description. Even if you don't like them, they were important movie releases.
Exceptional or landmark movies for their genre is probably a better description. Both of those movies do fall under that description. Even if you don't like them, they were important movie releases.
11-11-03, 08:38 PM
#35
Moderator
Originally posted by kingtopher
I never understand when people say this. Are they such huge Criterion fans that they really allow themselves to believe it? Those are two completely forgettable movies that are no better than most summer action blockbusters. Armageddon was particularly bad.
I never understand when people say this. Are they such huge Criterion fans that they really allow themselves to believe it? Those are two completely forgettable movies that are no better than most summer action blockbusters. Armageddon was particularly bad.
11-11-03, 09:18 PM
#36
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Thanks so much for posting the full article. I learned a lot about Criterion and their thought process from this. In addition, I didn't have to register for the Chicago Tribune.
Again - Thank YOU!
danwiz
Again - Thank YOU!
danwiz
11-11-03, 09:50 PM
#37
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Originally posted by wendersfan
Well, that's certainly arguable
There are two basic reasons why they did The Rock and Armageddon - 1) Michael Bay is, like many of use here, a Criterion freak, and really wanted to work with the company to do special editions of his films, and 2) Criterion makes a lot of money from those releases, so they can afford to do things like the Brakhage DVD, which probably won't turn a profit ever. Besides, I didn't say the only thing Criterion did was release "really great movies"
Well, that's certainly arguable
There are two basic reasons why they did The Rock and Armageddon - 1) Michael Bay is, like many of use here, a Criterion freak, and really wanted to work with the company to do special editions of his films, and 2) Criterion makes a lot of money from those releases, so they can afford to do things like the Brakhage DVD, which probably won't turn a profit ever. Besides, I didn't say the only thing Criterion did was release "really great movies"
11-11-03, 10:10 PM
#38
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by talemyn
Exceptional or landmark movies for their genre is probably a better description. Both of those movies do fall under that description. Even if you don't like them, they were important movie releases.
Exceptional or landmark movies for their genre is probably a better description. Both of those movies do fall under that description. Even if you don't like them, they were important movie releases.
Big-budget, overbloated, action blockbusters have been done to death before these 2 films - and much better to boot. How exactly are these "landmark movies"?
This is just a Criterion fan's excuse to justify why these titles are in the collection. They're bad films which aren't important in any way, shape or form.
The only reason they're in the collection: $$$$$$$$.
11-11-03, 10:37 PM
#39
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by Coral
Landmark movies?.... They're bad films which aren't important in any way, shape or form.
.
Landmark movies?.... They're bad films which aren't important in any way, shape or form.
.
I doubt there is a person on this forum who couldn't point to some title on Criterion and make an argument against it. People have pointed to The Blob, Carnival of Souls, Flesh For Frankenstein, etc. Just because something is unimportant to you doesn't necessarily mean it is unimportant. You don't like it - don't buy it. Move on.
11-11-03, 11:41 PM
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I'd personally like to see more mainstream Criterion SE's in addition to the obsure foreign titles (Fear and Loathing, Naked Lunch, Rushmore, Do the Right Thing, Brazil, etc.)
I'd buy a MASH criterion, and I'd pick up The Searchers in a heartbeat.
I'd buy a MASH criterion, and I'd pick up The Searchers in a heartbeat.
11-12-03, 12:45 AM
#41
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally posted by kingtopher
I never understand when people say this. Are they such huge Criterion fans that they really allow themselves to believe it? Those are two completely forgettable movies that are no better than most summer action blockbusters. Armageddon was particularly bad.
I never understand when people say this. Are they such huge Criterion fans that they really allow themselves to believe it? Those are two completely forgettable movies that are no better than most summer action blockbusters. Armageddon was particularly bad.
That being said, people are also mis-reading my comments. I did not say that they were "landmark movies" . . . I said that they were "landmark movies for their genre" and that is an important distinction. For example, the Star Wars Trilogy (Ep. 4-6) were not great movies over all (much of the acting was poor, a good chunk of the dialog is pretty cheesy, etc.), but it does not stop the movies from being landmark in both the areas of epic film and science fiction (now there is a thought - The Star Wars Original Trilogy- Criterion Collection . . . hmmmm).
As to the specifics of why Armageddon and The Rock warranted their Criterion releases, let me begin by quoting Criterions website the "Armageddon" and "The Rock" movies.
Armageddon
"Despite what you may have heard, Armageddon is a work of art by a cutting-edge artist who is a master of movement, light, color, and shape—and also of chaos, razzle-dazzle, and explosion."
The Rock
"The movie is a triumph of style, tone, and energy—an action picture that rises to the top of the genre because of a literate, witty screenplay and skilled craftsmanship in the direction and special effects."
I think that those descriptions are dead-on for both movies. Are they "merely" summer, action, blockbusters? Well, I don't agree with the merely, but, absolutely . . . they are . . . I would consider "action blockbuster" to be their genre, in fact. And, within that genre, they are both very important for the kind of action that they brought with them. Both movies are spectacular examples of action cinematography. The camera angles, use of lighting, framing, scene composition, etc. are al exceptional, and, quite frankly, "landmark". Additionally, for The Rock, the dialog is crafted at a level of intelligence never seen in a prior, blockbuster-style action movie. It brought the movie to a level higher than any of it's peers at the time (and probably higher than most since).
Criterion describes its collection as "a continuing series of important classic and contemporary films". I'm not going to claim that every Criterion movie is a "great" amongst the world of all movies . . . I can't even say that I like them all, but I do respect the extraordinary achievments that each movie (or the ones that I know, at least) has made in some area of cinema.
As such, I think the both Armageddon and The Rock are both worthy of Criterion releases based on being "exceptional or landmark movies for their genre" of action blockbusters.
Side Note: There are actually a number of points of contention that I have with Armageddon, as an overall movie, that I would be happy to discuss in a more appropriate thread.
11-12-03, 12:50 AM
#42
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Forget about The Searchers. That's a Warner property. Criterion is probably planning the release of some ancient public domain B&W oater.
I'd put money down that the Altman title will be 3 Women.
Man...Altman, Ford, Fuller, Lang, Cassavetes....times are looking up for Criterion.
I'd put money down that the Altman title will be 3 Women.
Man...Altman, Ford, Fuller, Lang, Cassavetes....times are looking up for Criterion.
01-19-04, 04:51 PM
#44
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by Der Zorn Gottes
I have no idea what the John Ford could be. Maybe Grapes of Wrath from Fox, but isn't that already confirmed? I don't think Warner or MGM would lend their Ford titles.
I also don't know what the Cassavettes could be. Hopefully, Shadows.
I have no idea what the John Ford could be. Maybe Grapes of Wrath from Fox, but isn't that already confirmed? I don't think Warner or MGM would lend their Ford titles.
I also don't know what the Cassavettes could be. Hopefully, Shadows.
As for Ford, eesh....that could be any number of things eh? there's only abouta 100 possibilities....I'm guessing they'll go back and pick a silent or two for a set maybe....but if I had to pick a dream favorite, i'd go with Drums Along the Mohawk - not on DVD as of now and Fox has the VHS rights. That'd work for me
01-19-04, 05:13 PM
#45
DVD Talk Special Edition
I'm willing to bet that the Ford will be Young Mr. Lincoln, which was just selected for the National Film Registry (The Long Voyage Home is also a possibility). I would personally like to see The Informer. All of those seem more in line with the kind of titles Criterion typically goes for.
As for the Altman, I'm nearly certain it won't be Short Cuts. But 3 Women sounds about right - much more cultish. I would love to be wrong though !
As for the Altman, I'm nearly certain it won't be Short Cuts. But 3 Women sounds about right - much more cultish. I would love to be wrong though !
01-19-04, 06:34 PM
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My god can we just have one criterion thread without people bringing up The Rock and Armageddon?? There's 227 other movies in their collection that DO fit their criteria!
It's almost like they decided to make them part of their collection so that people could have a convenient weak spot to attack whenever the worth of the Criterion Collection came up.
If the rest of the collection is Smaug then The Rock and Armaggedon are that one uncovered spot on his belly.
It's almost like they decided to make them part of their collection so that people could have a convenient weak spot to attack whenever the worth of the Criterion Collection came up.
If the rest of the collection is Smaug then The Rock and Armaggedon are that one uncovered spot on his belly.
01-19-04, 07:31 PM
#49
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Originally posted by TopHatCat64
There's 227 other movies in their collection that DO fit their criteria!.
There's 227 other movies in their collection that DO fit their criteria!.
Armageddon and The Rock aren't the only questionable titles in the collection.
01-19-04, 11:12 PM
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As for Ford, eesh....that could be any number of things eh? there's only abouta 100 possibilities....I'm guessing they'll go back and pick a silent or two for a set maybe....but if I had to pick a dream favorite, i'd go with Drums Along the Mohawk - not on DVD as of now and Fox has the VHS rights. That'd work for me.