No, just...hmmm..."selectively cinephilic," we'll call it.

A true cinephile, after all, cares for the preservation of film history, of which the original versions of the Star Wars movies are a not insignificant part.

FINALLY someone who understands the concept.

:up:

Kickass News!

Can't wait to own it. :D

GL should of at least tried to incorporate the original scenes of Biggs coming back to Tatooine and Luke's friends that he met up with in the beginning of Ep 4. instead of the crappy CGI that now looks dated.

Agreed, but a true cinephile also cares about preserving and enjoying true artistic vision (i.e., what "cinephile" wouldn't prefer to see Gilliam's version of Brazil over the original "Love Conquer's All" version). So now we have conflicting concerns in the life of a cinephile.



On a slightly related note . . . at the rate the current threads are going, I predict that members of the DVDTalk forums establish official definitions and rules for "cinephile" and "J6P" by the end of the year. :D

I also predict a forum related murder as a direct result of the use of the phrase "artistic vision". :D

Good news. Put me on the boat with people who couldnt give a monkey's ass about the whole Special Edition/Original Version debate. It's Lucas' baby, his vision, and he can release it the way he wants to. To me, that's all there is to it.

Couldn't be simpler to solve - support the release of both versions. No one's forcing anyone to pick allegiance to one over the other, but as a compelling case can be made for the importance of each version, a "true cinephile" would like to see both released.

Right?

(Incidentally, your analogy is quite flawed. There are worlds of difference between the process that produced the original versions of the Star Wars trilogy and the one that resulted in the "Love Conquers All" cut of Brazil.)

AWESOME !!!

Dude, please shut up. George Lucas created Star Wars and it's characters and concepts. He wrote the stories to all 6 films. His influence on ESB and ROTJ is immense, whether he directed them or not. Whether you can handle it or not, they are his movies, and you good and well know it. You don't have to like them, but don't give me this ridiculous nonsense that he's not responsible for the original trilogy's greatness, or that they're not really his films.

I don't agree with the SE's 100%, but I will buy this in any version that is released... I still have the versions I grew up with i.e. 80's VHS pan & scan.

Actually, I would say that any analogy comparing films to traditional art (such as the Mona Lisa) is somewhat flawed, since in the case of most music, paintings, or sculpture, only one artist is responsible for the work. However, a large-scale film production is simply beyond the scope of one man (or woman), and though one individual is usually the driving force behind the film, there are many actors, special effects artists, set builders, screenwriters, stunt coordinators, etc., that greatly contribute to a film by offering their own creative input.

Folks like Jackskeleton would have us believe that the hard work of these individuals is meaningless because of some hierarchy in the Hollywood workplace, but I refuse to bury my head in the sand because of some societal standard. Many individuals worked hard to produce these films, and as previously pointed out, Lucas did not even direct all of them. I say that the original work of these individuals deserves to be preserved and remembered as new media formats evolve.

I already did that in the last paragraph of an earlier post . . .Additionally, I have signed "the petition" for the inclusion of the OT release. However, I'm fairly certain that, if they were released together in one set, the original releases in my set would get about as much use as the FF sides of the flippers that I own.
As for the analogy, I wasn't trying for a perfect fit . . . the point I was making was that, in each case, Gilliam and Lucas, respectively, were not happy with the original releases of their movies. As a result, they both took steps to address their concerns and, in Gilliams case, a better version was the result. I feel confidant that, once Lucas is done, the final cuts will be a better than the original releases as well . . . from a purely objective standpoint (i.e., removing the sentimentality factor).

Please, cut the sarcasm :rolleyes:

I was, quite obviously, referring to the content of the movie. I could watch the SE upside down with one eye covered, still the same movie. Which I shouldn't have to point out, but hey! :eyebrow:

I'm not quite sure what your point is anymore. My comment about supporting the release of both versions was because when I said a true cinephile cares about the preservation of film history, you said that same cinephile's desire for the preservation of artistic vision would create a conflict of interest. If you would support the release of both versions, I have no idea what that conflict would be.

Anyway, I guess it's inconsequential now. But with regard to the Brazil analogy, I was referring to the fact that Lucas released his movies in the form in which he wanted them, limited only by his technical capabilities, while Gilliam's film was compromised by all sorts of outside influence. Gilliam going back and correcting what others screwed up is not quite the same thing as Lucas sprucing up his movies because he made them 20 years too early.

And on a purely personal level, if you think the SEs are a step in the direction of improvement (although I'm not quite sure how this can be measured objectively), more power to ya, I guess.

You people make me sick.

You're all a bunch of nerds.

there not even called se's anymore that has been dropped completely by lucas. the most recent vhs release of the once called se's has no mention of se anywhere.

Of course. And he would claim it was always his original intention and that paper insers in Ep1 & 2 would be replaced too, since they were "works in progress." :)Sure, I have no problem with him making his movies. BUT...he already did make them! It would just be nice if he made his "works in progress" available as well, since they were good enough to make millions worldwide. He has every right to change his movies...they are his afterall. However, it would be nice to make the originals available. I don't believe for a minute they are works in progress. They became works in progress when he saw newer films (like Jurassic Park) with effects and new toys (CGI) that allowed him to go back and change things. Either way, I will be buying what is released. I just hope he makes the Originals available. I like the idea of using DVD-18's and letting one side be his new version and the other side being the "works in progress" or whatever name he assigns the OT. Just my opinion though...and either way, I have my LD's and DVD-R's when I want to watch the originals...

But please please please let the ORIGINALS be made available as well as Lucas final vision!!!

That's how I feel. Glad I kept my laserdiscs.

-k
###

A lot of passion here. Anyone want to chime in on the George Lucas vs. Peter Jackson debate? <poke poke> :)

Actually what Lucas should do is release both the theatrical version and the new edited version in separate sets and sit back and count his money while everyone here, although might say otherwise, buys both very expensive boxes versions.

Yup! I'd buy them both...All he has to do is release them and my cash will be on the counter!!

Lucas' vision was completed in 1977, 1980 and 1983. When those original films were released George no longer owned them. We, the audience did. We purchased them through our millions of dollars in movie tickets. If we hadn't George wouldn't have the money today (or in 1997) to make alternate versions. I take it as a personal insult not to be able to own dvd's of the original theatrical cuts.

There was not one word of sarcasm in my post. I meant every word of it.

By your reasoning, the obligatory pan & scam version should be OK too, since George authorized it.

I’m sick to death of pretentious punks professing to know what a director’s “vision” is. Artistic schmartistic. SOMEBODY give me a gun!!

:D

Sorry if my posts were confusing . . . my intention is not to argue against the OT, but, rather to support the "SE's" (or whatever they will be called now :D ). What tends to get me going are comments that attack Lucas's continued work. Example:Deadman later added that he was fine with the changes, as long as the OT was released, too, which I am fine as well, but the tone of the original comment was not one of support for the OT, but an "attack" on the SE's (you might say that Deadman's first post didn't represent his "true artistic vision", so he went back and changed the "original release" :lol: ). Anyway, that's why I started defending Lucas' continued refinement of his movies.That's why I said I wasn't going for the perfect fit with this analogy, just trying to make a comparitive point. I think either of us would be hard pressed to find an exact analogy to match the process that the SW movie are going through. :D The one part that I would disagree with in your assessment of Lucas' original release is that they were "in the form in which he wanted". He pretty clearly states in the interviews at the beginning of the Ep. 4 SE that he wanted something different but that money, time, and technical restrictions kept him from being able to do that. You wouldn't begrudge someone putting an addition to their house because, when they originally built it, they didn't have the time, money, or available materials, would you (I know, I know . . . flawed analogy :) )?The objective improvements that I was refering to were things like improved technical details (e.g., no squares around the fighters, better rendered light sabers, etc.), more tightly coupled storyline throughout the series (e.g., the tie-in of Hutts throughout Ep. 1-6 and a more detailed/complete storyline for Han are accomplished by adding Jabba into Ep. 4), more improved/consistant artistic details throughout the series (e.g., more intricate/colorful/complex scenery and background details in Ep. 4-6 bring them to a level closer to that of Ep. 1-3), etc. I think that those can be measured objectively.

Anyway, I hope that you get to see the OT on DVD, but, personally, I'm more interested in seeing how the whole thing turns out once all of the movies are done. I think that once it's all complete, we are going to have and impressive "sextilogy" on our hands. I just wish that more people would keep an open mind about it the updates to the OT that are going to be required in order to do that.