Why does the industry have to make it difficult??
10-23-03, 10:01 PM
#51
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Originally posted by Blade
Which, of course, illustrates, partly, why some of us get so upset about OAR. We're constantly worried that as DVD becomes more common, OAR will become less popular and thus harder to find. This is fear is the inspiration of quite a few threads actually.
Which, of course, illustrates, partly, why some of us get so upset about OAR. We're constantly worried that as DVD becomes more common, OAR will become less popular and thus harder to find. This is fear is the inspiration of quite a few threads actually.
I hate the idea of not having OAR DVD releases and hope it never comes to that.
Personally, I think studios should just not make any fullscreen options. I imagine there are very few people who simply wouldn't buy DVDs in widescreen, and eventually, they'll get used to the "black bars" even if they still complain about it.
I know it was jarring to me to first watch a 2.35 AR movie on my 20" television. But I've gotten used to it now. I don't even really think about taking up so little of the screen vertically.
If anything, it's become difficult for me to watch movies on HBO and the like in fullscreen.
10-24-03, 01:49 AM
#53
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Originally posted by phraseturner
See my sig...Roger said it better than anyone else...
See my sig...Roger said it better than anyone else...
10-24-03, 02:20 AM
#54
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Re: dual sided disks being more protected.
I didn't say it but I'll attempt to answer it.
On a standard, single sided disk, the material that the information is actually stored on is protected only by that artwork (which is essentially just paint/ink). Scratch that art work and you may very well have a non-functioning disk.
A dual sided disk has clear plastic covering the read material (lets call it foil because that's close enough to what it is) on both sides. The foil is sandwiched between the two pieces and is thus, more protected.
It's a misconception that the clear side of a disk is the one you have to be most careful not to scratch but the reality is, it's safer to scratch that than the artwork. A scratch in the clear side may cause lockups, jitters or whatever but it's simply due to defraction/read errors. In most cases those scratches can be buffed out and the disk will work like new. Not so with the artwork side.
You can see exactly what I'm talking about by grabbing the nearest AOL or Vanilla Ice CD and scratching the artwork off. You'll see that the disk itself is nothing but a clear piece of plastic that's meant to protect the foil.
They do a great job of making the artwork sides durable though. It's more difficult to scratch the artwork all the way through than it is to scratch the actual plastic. The difference is one is fixable and the other is not. I've only seen one CD in my entire life get a scratch so deep on the art side that the disk stopped working. Once that happens there's nothing you can do but toss it. The clear side can be buffed out unless the scratch is extremely deep.
I didn't say it but I'll attempt to answer it.
On a standard, single sided disk, the material that the information is actually stored on is protected only by that artwork (which is essentially just paint/ink). Scratch that art work and you may very well have a non-functioning disk.
A dual sided disk has clear plastic covering the read material (lets call it foil because that's close enough to what it is) on both sides. The foil is sandwiched between the two pieces and is thus, more protected.
It's a misconception that the clear side of a disk is the one you have to be most careful not to scratch but the reality is, it's safer to scratch that than the artwork. A scratch in the clear side may cause lockups, jitters or whatever but it's simply due to defraction/read errors. In most cases those scratches can be buffed out and the disk will work like new. Not so with the artwork side.
You can see exactly what I'm talking about by grabbing the nearest AOL or Vanilla Ice CD and scratching the artwork off. You'll see that the disk itself is nothing but a clear piece of plastic that's meant to protect the foil.
They do a great job of making the artwork sides durable though. It's more difficult to scratch the artwork all the way through than it is to scratch the actual plastic. The difference is one is fixable and the other is not. I've only seen one CD in my entire life get a scratch so deep on the art side that the disk stopped working. Once that happens there's nothing you can do but toss it. The clear side can be buffed out unless the scratch is extremely deep.
10-24-03, 02:32 AM
#55
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I just don't see why the movies should be modified to please a certain group of people.
Yeah I know; do what the "people" demand and sell more dvd's. But I still think it's friggin' stupid!
Yeah I know; do what the "people" demand and sell more dvd's. But I still think it's friggin' stupid!
10-25-03, 01:16 PM
#56
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Why didn't the studios kill PS with the introduction of DVD? Isn't it only USA (and Canada?) which has PS-versions? I think I read long ago that Walmart and Co forced the studios in some way.
But how? "PS-versions or we won't sell your movies." "Oh, no. Matrix is in WS. Ah well, I'll buy the PS-version from Universal instead." That won't work...and I can't see how they were forced.
But how? "PS-versions or we won't sell your movies." "Oh, no. Matrix is in WS. Ah well, I'll buy the PS-version from Universal instead." That won't work...and I can't see how they were forced.
10-25-03, 01:44 PM
#57
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"...Isn't it only USA (and Canada?) which has PS-versions?..."
...erm... where did you hear/read/see that...?... The French and the British and the Dutch, too, also have their very own PS discs, yessiree!!!
. . .
. . .
...erm... where did you hear/read/see that...?... The French and the British and the Dutch, too, also have their very own PS discs, yessiree!!!
. . .
. . .
10-25-03, 02:17 PM
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Really...? Well, I only shop online and I've never seen any R2UK PS, only R1. I think it's odd that if there really is R2 PS that isn’t sold by online shops, not even big ones like Amazon. In Sweden at least there’re only WS discs.
10-25-03, 03:34 PM
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For those that don't realize how discs are made here's a quick tutorial, let's start with a single sided disc:
------------ thin veneer and paint
------------ foil
========= thick plastic
Now with a dual sided disc, they essentially sandwich together two discs back to back, minus the paint. So what you end up with is this:
========== thick plastic
------------- foil
------------- thin bonding layer
------------- foil
========== thick plastic
Scratch the paint on a single layer and you're almost certain to have an usable, unrepairable disc. Scratch the thick plastic and it's likely fixable. The foil is the critical layer that needs to be protected at all costs as it stores the data and is VERY easily damaged. The plastic is important but it is much harder to damage, frequently scratched plastic has no effect on playback, and when it does effect playback it is frequently repairable through buffing, wax, etc...
------------ thin veneer and paint
------------ foil
========= thick plastic
Now with a dual sided disc, they essentially sandwich together two discs back to back, minus the paint. So what you end up with is this:
========== thick plastic
------------- foil
------------- thin bonding layer
------------- foil
========== thick plastic
Scratch the paint on a single layer and you're almost certain to have an usable, unrepairable disc. Scratch the thick plastic and it's likely fixable. The foil is the critical layer that needs to be protected at all costs as it stores the data and is VERY easily damaged. The plastic is important but it is much harder to damage, frequently scratched plastic has no effect on playback, and when it does effect playback it is frequently repairable through buffing, wax, etc...
Last edited by jim_cook87; 10-26-03 at 08:46 AM.
10-25-03, 04:05 PM
#60
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Originally posted by Pants
I get upset because of 20 years of VHS tyrany where I prefered movies in OAR,
I get upset because of 20 years of VHS tyrany where I prefered movies in OAR,
I don't see the problem... When my VHS collection was at it's peak it was well over 1000 and 90+% of them were Widescreen tapes. All you had to do was look for them. Think of all the torturous nights you could have avoided.
10-25-03, 08:58 PM
#61
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Originally posted by jim_cook87
For those that don't realize how discs are made here's a quick tutorial, let's start with a single sided disc:
(snip)
For those that don't realize how discs are made here's a quick tutorial, let's start with a single sided disc:
(snip)
As far as I'm aware, this is only true of pressed discs - CD-Rs and DVD-Rs are (more than likely) safer on the label side.
Aspect Ratio, Bitrate, Anamorphic Video, OAR, Inserts - it is the film part of these shiny things we enjoy isn't it?
Last edited by mattgoble; 10-25-03 at 09:01 PM.
10-25-03, 10:30 PM
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I'm very glad, that this isn't an issue over here. Releases from Major studios are almost always(98%) OAR, there are no separate discs. Most MAR transfers are being released by independent studios that couldn't afford buying the correct master from the ones that have 'em(whom again are major studios most of the time). 
10-25-03, 10:39 PM
#63
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Originally posted by jim_cook87
For those that don't realize how discs are made here's a quick tutorial
For those that don't realize how discs are made here's a quick tutorial
and HERE is some more info...most of which has been seen before. see the "Pressed Discs" section of this report. all just fyi.
why does the industry turn a deaf ear? they dont want a panic on their hands. why are they being so difficult? because they dont care. lets see an official industry report on this problem and how they are dealing with it. or how they plan to deal with it when my copy of Gettysburg starts to die.
10-25-03, 11:19 PM
#64
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Originally posted by Brian McHale
He's convinced that 16x9 Pan 'n' Scan will become the new norm once widescreen sets become common.
He's convinced that 16x9 Pan 'n' Scan will become the new norm once widescreen sets become common.
10-26-03, 02:12 AM
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Originally posted by Pants
This is a contradiction of terms. If he's "a smart guy" but still likes fullscreen, then he is not "a smart guy". At least not about aspect ratio. Choosing to watch a film in its correct Aspect Ratio isn't some kind of opinion poll, there's only one answer.
This is a contradiction of terms. If he's "a smart guy" but still likes fullscreen, then he is not "a smart guy". At least not about aspect ratio. Choosing to watch a film in its correct Aspect Ratio isn't some kind of opinion poll, there's only one answer.
Also your full of crap man people can wacth what they want long as they use thier money for it. I think you sould wacth movies I like Come here I gave ya a hug and a candy maybe that will help ya clam down alittle. See ya I'm going to bed now.
Simmer down and knock it off with inflammatory language
Last edited by Gallant Pig; 10-26-03 at 10:32 AM.
10-26-03, 02:19 AM
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jim_cook87, your diagram is missing the thick plastic layer that's on the bottom of single-sided discs, too (I "disassembled" one of those freebie Best Buy discs just to be certain).
The only difference is that there's only one foil sheet in a single sided disc, and of course the dual-sided discs don't have that extra layer of protective paint and veneer on top.
More to the point of this discussion...
The irony is that the same Mr. Six Packs who buy "Full Frame" discs now (which is a poor name for them - I like "Hack and Slash" myself) will be bitterly complaining in a few years after they buy a widescreen TV that now there are black bars on BOTH SIDES of the picture!
Those of us who invested in a large 16:9 collection WILL be watching in FULL SCREEN then.
I can't f'ing wait to hear those complaints.
But this is why I'm not worried about the dumbing down of DVD. WS TV in the US is going to be a fact of life in the next decade. Everyone will eventually have to convert/upgrade their tellies, and then we can all live in widescreen harmony.
The only difference is that there's only one foil sheet in a single sided disc, and of course the dual-sided discs don't have that extra layer of protective paint and veneer on top.
More to the point of this discussion...
The irony is that the same Mr. Six Packs who buy "Full Frame" discs now (which is a poor name for them - I like "Hack and Slash" myself) will be bitterly complaining in a few years after they buy a widescreen TV that now there are black bars on BOTH SIDES of the picture!
Those of us who invested in a large 16:9 collection WILL be watching in FULL SCREEN then.
I can't f'ing wait to hear those complaints.
But this is why I'm not worried about the dumbing down of DVD. WS TV in the US is going to be a fact of life in the next decade. Everyone will eventually have to convert/upgrade their tellies, and then we can all live in widescreen harmony.
Last edited by jough; 10-26-03 at 02:21 AM.
10-26-03, 09:19 AM
#67
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Originally posted by mattgoble
...As far as I'm aware, this is only true of pressed discs - CD-Rs and DVD-Rs are (more than likely) safer on the label side.
...As far as I'm aware, this is only true of pressed discs - CD-Rs and DVD-Rs are (more than likely) safer on the label side.
10-26-03, 11:56 AM
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The real question is why should wide screen and OAR fans have to pay more for DVD to make up for the cost of studios producing 2 versions of every movie, when they could've just made 1 version, a wide screen/OAR version and let the intelligent full screen fans use Zoom on their DVD player for a change.
10-26-03, 12:39 PM
#70
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The irony in this debate is that most of the people on this forum watch terrible movies in a good aspect ratio. For some reason, this is deemed acceptable whereas watching a good movie in a terrible aspect ratio is not.
10-27-03, 10:53 AM
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The irony is that the same Mr. Six Packs who buy "Full Frame" discs now (which is a poor name for them - I like "Hack and Slash" myself) will be bitterly complaining in a few years after they buy a widescreen TV that now there are black bars on BOTH SIDES of the picture!
