Devil's Advocate Original Version question
09-23-03 | 02:24 AM
#1
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From: KC, MO
Devil's Advocate Original Version question
Searched but couldn't find it:
How can you tell the difference between the first version of the Devil's Advocate dvd and the current version?
I've found a place that has 2 different covers, with the spine of one saying 'Special Edition' on with the title, the other just has the title.
Any help?
How can you tell the difference between the first version of the Devil's Advocate dvd and the current version?
I've found a place that has 2 different covers, with the spine of one saying 'Special Edition' on with the title, the other just has the title.
Any help?
09-23-03 | 03:16 AM
#2
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The original version has this text on the back of the case: The large white sculpture of the human forms on the wall of penthouse of John Milton's Penthouse in "Devil's Advocate" is not connected in any way and was not endorsed by the Sculptor Federick Hart or the Washington National Cathederal joint copyright owners of the cathederal sculpture "Ex Nihilo" in Washington, D.C.
They basically got sued for using that sculpture without permission or something like that.
Also, the old version has 15090 on the spine...not sure what the number on the re-release is though, b/c I was lucky enough to snag the original one.
Other than those two things, the covers are identical as far as I know.
Zack
They basically got sued for using that sculpture without permission or something like that.
Also, the old version has 15090 on the spine...not sure what the number on the re-release is though, b/c I was lucky enough to snag the original one.
Other than those two things, the covers are identical as far as I know.
Zack
09-23-03 | 06:22 AM
#4
DVD Talk Godfather
The text Zack mentions is in a big rectangular red box underneath the credits. The same color as the features box I believe. I have it, I might have to look later.
09-23-03 | 06:37 AM
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From: R2
85391-61722 is the re-issue, it didn't have the the Ex Nihilo comment on the box (could have been on a sticker). The image is altered for all shots until right at the end when the 'swirly' pattern turns into the human figures. It looks so good you wouldn't notice it unless you had seen the original.
09-23-03 | 07:09 AM
#6
DVD Talk Legend
I had both at one time.. if you compare side to side it's a pretty big difference, however the shots that were changed are with the statue in the background so you'd never know unless you were actively looking for it.. the scenes at the end are unchanged.
09-23-03 | 03:23 PM
#7
DVD Talk Special Edition
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From: Charleston, SC
From IMDB:
And here is a pic of the back of the original version:
I have the original release. It's not in pristine condition because I bought it used from a DVD rental place that was going out of business. However, I'm pleased with it. Besides, it's the first movie where my father is clearly seen (an extra in the jury).
After the film's initial release, sculptor Frederick Hart sued Warner Bros. claiming that a large sculpture prominently featured in the film (on the wall of Al Pacino's penthouse apartment) is an unauthorized copy of his work "Ex Nihilo", displayed at the entrance of Washington's Episcopal National Cathedral. According to a court settlement reached in February 1998, Warner has been authorized to release an initial run of 475,000 copies of the video of the film for rental, but will have to remove or re-edit over 20 minutes of scenes where the sculpture can be seen before releasing any further video or television versions.
In the version released for USA premium cable channels (premiering September 19, 1998 on HBO) as well as later releases on home video, the following changes were made in response to the lawsuit regarding the large white statue in Milton's office: in all the early scenes in his office, the statue has been changed. It looks much like the original with one major difference - there are no people in it. Instead, it's just an abstract swoosh of white waves. This was digitally inserted by Warner's effects department, and they did what must be said is an amazing job - the overlay is completely seamless, even following the random camera motions around the office. Later at the climax, when Lomax first arrives at Milton's office for the showdown and we hear Milton's voice bouncing around the office, the statue starts swirling to life. It comes to a rest in the form seen in the original version of the movie, with all the human forms in it, as Milton makes his appearance. From that point on, the scene remains the same as in the original.
In the version released for USA premium cable channels (premiering September 19, 1998 on HBO) as well as later releases on home video, the following changes were made in response to the lawsuit regarding the large white statue in Milton's office: in all the early scenes in his office, the statue has been changed. It looks much like the original with one major difference - there are no people in it. Instead, it's just an abstract swoosh of white waves. This was digitally inserted by Warner's effects department, and they did what must be said is an amazing job - the overlay is completely seamless, even following the random camera motions around the office. Later at the climax, when Lomax first arrives at Milton's office for the showdown and we hear Milton's voice bouncing around the office, the statue starts swirling to life. It comes to a rest in the form seen in the original version of the movie, with all the human forms in it, as Milton makes his appearance. From that point on, the scene remains the same as in the original.
I have the original release. It's not in pristine condition because I bought it used from a DVD rental place that was going out of business. However, I'm pleased with it. Besides, it's the first movie where my father is clearly seen (an extra in the jury).
Last edited by DVDude!; 09-24-03 at 02:22 AM.
09-23-03 | 11:08 PM
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DVD Talk Special Edition
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From: Charleston, SC
Originally posted by ScottReynolds
Many thanks, esp to Random - I was hoping that would be the case.
Many thanks, esp to Random - I was hoping that would be the case.
09-23-03 | 11:13 PM
#11
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally posted by DVDude!
My screenshots show the "Special Edition" banner at the top
My screenshots show the "Special Edition" banner at the top
The red box on the back is only on the OOP release. Another way to tell is by the catalog number on the spine. The OOP one is 15090; the current one is 16172.
Rob
Last edited by RobCA; 09-23-03 at 11:18 PM.
09-24-03 | 12:15 AM
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From: KC, MO
Originally posted by DVDude!
My screenshots show the "Special Edition" banner at the top and the red box toward the bottom of the back, both denoting the original edition. *sniff*
My screenshots show the "Special Edition" banner at the top and the red box toward the bottom of the back, both denoting the original edition. *sniff*
He said on the 'spine' not cover. That was the most obvious difference between the two disks I was comparing.
11-22-03 | 03:42 PM
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From: FL.
Just picked up a copy of what I believe to be the original version of this DVD. The spine no. is 15090 and it has the red box on the back that contains the blurb about the statue. However, since the DVD is used, I'd like to check out the scenes in question to verify that the disc wasn't switched out for the current release.
Can anyone provide approximate time markers that contain the scenes that were later edited?
Can anyone provide approximate time markers that contain the scenes that were later edited?
Last edited by Spy021; 11-22-03 at 04:01 PM.
11-22-03 | 07:47 PM
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From: Atlanta, GA
Originally posted by Spy021
Just picked up a copy of what I believe to be the original version of this DVD. The spine no. is 15090 and it has the red box on the back that contains the blurb about the statue. However, since the DVD is used, I'd like to check out the scenes in question to verify that the disc wasn't switched out for the current release.
Can anyone provide approximate time markers that contain the scenes that were later edited?
Just picked up a copy of what I believe to be the original version of this DVD. The spine no. is 15090 and it has the red box on the back that contains the blurb about the statue. However, since the DVD is used, I'd like to check out the scenes in question to verify that the disc wasn't switched out for the current release.
Can anyone provide approximate time markers that contain the scenes that were later edited?
If it says that, you're good to go.
Lee
11-22-03 | 11:37 PM
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From: FL.
Originally posted by alpo
Check the disk art itself. On the outer edge you should find printed "15090 REGION 1 144 MINUTES ..."
If it says that, you're good to go.
Lee
Check the disk art itself. On the outer edge you should find printed "15090 REGION 1 144 MINUTES ..."
If it says that, you're good to go.
Lee
11-22-03 | 11:52 PM
#17
DVD Talk Godfather
I remember back when this was initially recalled, once the second batch of discs were produced, people were buying the new version and renting the original and switching them out. Gotta be careful.
11-23-03 | 10:53 PM
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From: New York City
You can see it easily at Chapter 29 at about 1hr:30m:15s Keanu Reeves is meeting with Al Pacino in a big office. There is a large white stone (plaster?) sculpture suspended on the wall. If the sculpture consists of long curved abstract waves, that's the altered version of the film. If you can see actual human figures in the sculpture, that's the original. There's no mistaking it, the figures are either there, plain as day, or they aren't.
I happened to find both versions used for very cheap so I got them out of curiousity. There's really only a few scenes where they changed the sculpture to appear as the abstract shapes in the altered version. Most of the scenes with the human figures are still the same in both versions. In fact I don't understand why the changes they made were enough to satisfy the artist or meet whatever legal requirements.
Anyway, IMO, the dramatic impact is ultimately about the same either way, a subtle difference at best. In the original, a sculpture of human shapes starts moving and the shapes come to life. In the altered version, abstract shapes in a sculpture (and BTW, as a static sculpture, it does not look fake or digitized at all, they did a good job) begin to move and then take human form and come to life. You could even argue that the altered version is more effective.
I happened to find both versions used for very cheap so I got them out of curiousity. There's really only a few scenes where they changed the sculpture to appear as the abstract shapes in the altered version. Most of the scenes with the human figures are still the same in both versions. In fact I don't understand why the changes they made were enough to satisfy the artist or meet whatever legal requirements.
Anyway, IMO, the dramatic impact is ultimately about the same either way, a subtle difference at best. In the original, a sculpture of human shapes starts moving and the shapes come to life. In the altered version, abstract shapes in a sculpture (and BTW, as a static sculpture, it does not look fake or digitized at all, they did a good job) begin to move and then take human form and come to life. You could even argue that the altered version is more effective.
Last edited by digiboy; 11-23-03 at 11:47 PM.
