I'm all for this. Better PQ, besides the DTS there is also a commentary. This is better then it being a flipper.

Frank S,

Was the movie Heat as action-packed as Gangs? I've never seen Gangs at all, so I don't know.

Well Well I didnt BUY the new DANCES WITH WOLVES on DVD. Forget about spreading out to 2 discs. I am glad I bought the old 1 disc edition of DANCES WITH WOLVES at ebays for cheap when the new one was announced. I for one will NOT ger up to change discs. These studios should be able to put all info on one disc like they did with HEAT, ABYSS, LOTL DVDS!

Yes, I'm sure Martin Scorsese and Michael Ballhaus aren't nearly as well informed on how to best present their film as you two are. Please, regail us with your credentials. How many DVDs have you authored again?

Heat is a very action-packed crime film. And its transfer often gets trashed as being subpar. So, yes, you can fit 171 minutes (or 167 in the case of GONY) on a single DVD, but the real concern is: would you want to? I wouldn't be surprised at all if Scorcese or someone else of reasonably high authority at his production company made the decision to spread the film over 2 discs after seeing what it would look like when compressed onto a single disc.

DJ

Not only is the transfer for "Heat" subpar, it doesn't even have a DTS track. Factor dual Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1 soundtracks into the mix, along with the length of the film and the fact that "Gangs" doesn't look like it would compress very well, and I'd say you have your answer.

By the way, a movie doesn't have to be "action-packed" to compress poorly. All you need is a lot of detail and/or movement on screen --- crowd scenes, camera movement, rain/snow, etc.

Lawrence of Arabia (single disc) 226 min., avg bitrate 4.21, looks decent
Exodus 207 min., avg bitrate 3.86, looks horrendous
The Right Stuff (SE) 192 min., avg bitrate 5.20, looks very good
The Green Mile 188 min., avg bitrate 5.28, looks very good
Nicholas and Alexandra 188 min., avg bitrate 4.21, looks good
Magnolia 188 min., avg bitrate 4.92, looks great
The Sand Pebbles 182 min., avg bitrate 5.65, looks very good
Saving Private Ryan 169 min., avg bitrate 5.36, looks great
1776 166 min., avg bitrate 4.78, looks great
Titus 162 min., avg bitrate 6.27, looks great

Just a few examples from my collection

If it didn't have a DTS track, keeping on one side wouldn't have been an issue.

Someone mentioned Saving Private Ryan --- yes, it did look good --- but it was a natural grainy film so hard to judge for artifacts.

I've seen the single disc version's video quality get poorly reviewed in comparison to the 2-disc set.

DJ

I know your "on my side", but an MPEG2 stream can be set to either constant or variable. Many, many compressors do this. Variable is often used to maximize compression across the disc, especially on slow scenes.

Secondly, for all the other people that say movie X will fit on one disc. Yes, sure. Any movie can fit onto one disc. Yes. Yes. Yes. Set the bit rate low enough and you can squeeze every episode of the Sopranos ever made onto a single disc. Yes, you can. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Obviously, image quality of the content goes to hell pretty quickly But it is possible nonetheless. One can not argue about quality and increased bit rate.

I laugh when people say movie X was one one disc and looked great. Yeah, they often do not have calibrated 50"+ 16:9 sets, and aren't using a progressive scan player. Rather, they are judging image quality on a 27" 4:3 Goldstar set purchased at Target that has been factory calibrated all the while using a $40 Radio shack DVD player with RCA cables.

My point: Gangs of New York can be put on one disc. The DTS track could be removed (or set lower), and the overall bit rate reduced, and it probably would look "good to ok". But it seems as if the DVD producers made an artistic decision to maximize image quality and throw in a DTS track. I do not know what the decisions were, but accusations of lazyness and being lame are clearly unwarrented.

Look at it this way: Perhaps theyhave us in mind in not coming back to a "SuperBit" style re-release in a year cuz we were unhappy with the transfer...

Well, I suppose Scorsese could always veto it, but the folks at Miramax have gone on record saying "This is a title we plan on revisiting in the future" and confirming that a longer cut will be issued. Still, I doubt that version would have a Scorsese commentary track, so I plan on getting this one now.

BTW : This discussion about 2 discs is silly. If they feel that it is necessary to spread out the movie over two discs for the best picture and sound, then do it. It wasn't a problem for Pearl Harbor : Vista or for LOTR:FOTR EE, and they were widely considered the two best DVDs of 2002. Delighted to get a DTS track with this film. As long as they don't reqiuire you to flip the disc over (cough, Dances With Wolves SE, cough), I'm OK with it. Having a multi-disc changer helps, though

Heat had one DD 5.1 audio track so it really is not comparible with Gangs. And as other have stated the picture quality was hardly impressive! And this DVD was a barebone release to boot.

Well of course it CAN be set to constant but I have yet to see a DVD that was done so and it would have to be from some pretty amatuerish company to be so! Do you have a DVD in mind as one that was set to constant? I would love info on the goofs who produced it!

And for all those who don't like the 2 disc version (and whom the convience is more paramount then the quality I say take a pass on this DVD (while the rest of us bask in the quality) and wait for the DVD-HD version to come out in 3-5 years.

wow. obviously a 2-disc spread is the way to go with a release this packed. i'm super excited to watch this on my system. can't really understand why everyone complains when dvds aren't presented as they 'should' be (e.g. no dts, no anamorphic, no dd 5.1, no extras, etc.), but when a big release has it all - everyone jumps on it and starts trashing it. either you buy it or you don't. it's not rocket science.

Frank S
The Fox Labor version of 400 blows and the Alliance Atlantis version of The Red Violin appear to both be set at a constant bitrate. Stupid I know. Check DVDBeaver for the graphs, you would be surprised. There are a few, but I only listed two.

i'm gonna dub it to a VHS tape on EP mode and watch it with no breaks

well said!

PS I can't wait to listen to that commentary. Boy can that little guy talk

I laugh when people say movie X was one one disc and looked great. Yeah, they often do not have calibrated 50"+ 16:9 sets, and aren't using a progressive scan player. Rather, they are judging image quality on a 27" 4:3 Goldstar set purchased at Target that has been factory calibrated all the while using a $40 Radio shack DVD player with RCA cables - tacomantt

Hey! Just how the hell did you figure out my Ultimate Edition surround system? Oh, and I have a 20" 4:3 Goldstar! So, hah on your movie profiling, digitally-racial, bigoted mind, buddy.

You didnt comment on the Radio Shack player with RCA cables.
10:1 odd that your running a Bose Acoustic Wave as your speakers!

This movie has dts and commentary as well. Probably to get the best bit rate and sound quality as possible, Scorsesse probably wanted it this way.

**cough** **cough** Fox Lorber **cough** **cough**

look at some of the dvd comparisons on dvdbeaver. I've seen several examples of dvds with constant rate.
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/

Just some of the DVDs I have that were encoded at a CBR (constant bitrate):

The Mystery Science Theater 3000 Box Set 1 (all four discs), The Hearse (Rhino), The Company Of Wolves, Pandora and the Flying Dutchman and the recently released Rhinoceros (Kino on Video), and these Anchor Bay titles: Reptile, To the Devil A Daughter, The Spiral Staircase, The Witches, Plague of the Zombies. Also a number of Ruscico releases.

The original poster mentioned the extras being spread out accross both disks. This seems like more of an injustice. So we watch disk one of the movie. Then we switch to disk two to finish the movie. Now we watch some extras on disk two, but to finish the extras we have to switch back to disk one??? Hopefully they are just talking about the commentary as an extra on disk one.