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fake anamorphic

 
Old 05-25-03, 03:40 AM
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fake anamorphic

hey yall,

How can you tell the difference if your dvd's are fake anamorphic as opposed to true anamorphic?
Also is there a list going around or can some of you list the dvd's that claim they are anamorphic but are merely fake anamorphic instead?

thanks
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Old 05-25-03, 03:53 AM
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what do you mean by "fake anamorphic"?
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Old 05-25-03, 03:58 AM
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What garmonbozia said. I've never heard the term "fake anamorphic." Something is either anamorphic or it isn't. It's kind of hard to fake.
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Old 05-25-03, 04:23 AM
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Casablanca is in fake anamorphic.

:cough:
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Old 05-25-03, 05:04 AM
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Fake anamorphic? Did it comes with fake black bar too?
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Old 05-25-03, 08:12 AM
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i am hearing the term "fake anamorphic" coming alot from Unearthed Films regarding their new DVDs of "Junk" and "Evil Dead Trap 2" calling the UK "anamorphic" versions as "fake anamorphic".

a couple of quotes from Unearthed...

"the company that released that version just took the original letterboxed version and cropped it to be anamorphic. doing this results in lowering resolution, which is against the idea of anamorphic"

"they took the letterboxed version and cut out the black bars to make it stretch"
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Old 05-25-03, 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by scarredgod

a couple of quotes from Unearthed...

"the company that released that version just took the original letterboxed version and cropped it to be anamorphic. doing this results in lowering resolution, which is against the idea of anamorphic"

"they took the letterboxed version and cut out the black bars to make it stretch"


This still doesn't make any sense to me. I don't have a widescreen tv, but from what I understand...even if you just cut off the black bars....wouldn't you still have a window-boxed picture if the dvd was not actually anamorphic?.......and as far as 4:3 tvs go......how is this any different than P&S?........or are the discs encoded in a way that the black bars only get cut off on 16:9 tvs? didn't think something like that was possible....
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Old 05-25-03, 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by scarredgod
"they took the letterboxed version and cut out the black bars to make it stretch"
They upsampled it, in other words.
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Old 05-25-03, 09:49 AM
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Some of the newer copies of Good Will Hunting CE (American version) list the DVD as being anamorphic when in fact it is not. Also, The Thing CE lists the DVD as 2.35:1 anamorphic on the disc itself, but it is actually letterboxed. I believe some older Warner titles were also mistakenly labeled as anamorphic.
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Old 05-25-03, 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by joliom
Some of the newer copies of Good Will Hunting CE (American version) list the DVD as being anamorphic when in fact it is not. Also, The Thing CE lists the DVD as 2.35:1 anamorphic on the disc itself, but it is actually letterboxed. I believe some older Warner titles were also mistakenly labeled as anamorphic.
A mislabeled DVD cover is not the same thing as the so-called 'fake-anamorphic' term (which is prety damn stupid in it's own right).

Whoever started using the term 'anamorphic' in regards to a 16:9 enhanced transfer should be kicked in the groin repeatedly. (IMHO, of course)

*sigh*
But anyway...
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Old 05-25-03, 12:23 PM
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Supposedly some of WB's early DVDs were "fake anamorphic".They took a letterboxed transfer and digitally upconverted it to 16x9 resolution. The problem is the resolution really isn't there, so it doesn't look as good as it should on a 16x9 display and it looks even worse downconverted for a 4x3 display.
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Old 05-25-03, 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by DVD_O_Rama
Whoever started using the term 'anamorphic' in regards to a 16:9 enhanced transfer should be kicked in the groin repeatedly. (IMHO, of course)
And why is that? It seems extremely analogous to its film counterpart. If anything, I would complain about the use of "16:9 enhanced" and consider that anamorphic was the correct term.
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Old 05-25-03, 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by garmonbozia
This still doesn't make any sense to me. I don't have a widescreen tv, but from what I understand...even if you just cut off the black bars....wouldn't you still have a window-boxed picture if the dvd was not actually anamorphic?.......and as far as 4:3 tvs go......how is this any different than P&S?........or are the discs encoded in a way that the black bars only get cut off on 16:9 tvs? didn't think something like that was possible....
Think about it like this: a 16:9 letterboxed movie on DVD would have resolution of 360 x 640 to fit on a 4:3 TV. That's 360 of the 480 lines that can be encoded on the current DVD format used for the image, the rest is used for the "black bars".

If you took that image and scaled it up to 480 horizontal lines (480 x 854) you would still have the resolution equivalent to the original 360 lines. If that image was then "enhanced" (by doing the so-called anamorphic compression) it would be no better than the original letterboxed version, even when displayed on a widescreen TV. Although it technically has the full 480 lines on the DVD, some of them are interpolated by the scaling process.

What is supposed to be done is that the original source is converted to digital and then scaled down to 480 lines of resolution (480 x 854). That image is then "enhanced" (by compressing it horizontally for storage on the DVD) to keep all of the lines of resolution so that it gives the best image on a 16:9 display. For display on a conventional 4:3 TV the image is further scaled down to 360 x 640.

When I buy an "anamorphic" DVD I assume that it was done using the second method. To do otherwise would be a con job by the studios and I hope that such DVDs are rare.
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Old 05-25-03, 02:57 PM
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lizard,

ahhh, thanks for the explanation.
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Old 05-25-03, 03:06 PM
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Wouldn't then all of the early DVDs that were just LD transfers converted to DVD but anamorphically encoded on the DVD fit the definition of "fake anamorphic"? They're anamorphic but taken from an original letterbox transfer.
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Old 05-25-03, 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by BigPete
And why is that? It seems extremely analogous to its film counterpart. If anything, I would complain about the use of "16:9 enhanced" and consider that anamorphic was the correct term.
Because the word anamorphic has been around a hell of a lot longer then widescreen televisions. If you ask anyone in the film business (esp. a DP or anyone around camera equipment) what the term anamorphic means and they are going to tell you it's a type of lens used for shooting in a widescreen aspect ratio.

'Anamorphic' used in DVD terms refers to a disc that will fill a 1.78:1 (16:9) screen. 16:9 enhanced is certainly more appropriate then anamorphic, unless your widescreen tv is 2.35:1, I suppose.
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Old 05-25-03, 04:24 PM
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2 "fake" anamorphic transfers
The Apartment
Once upon a time in china.
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Old 05-25-03, 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by DVD_O_Rama
Because the word anamorphic has been around a hell of a lot longer then widescreen televisions. If you ask anyone in the film business (esp. a DP or anyone around camera equipment) what the term anamorphic means and they are going to tell you it's a type of lens used for shooting in a widescreen aspect ratio.

'Anamorphic' used in DVD terms refers to a disc that will fill a 1.78:1 (16:9) screen. 16:9 enhanced is certainly more appropriate then anamorphic, unless your widescreen tv is 2.35:1, I suppose.
Webster's Dictionary sez:

Main Entry: ana·mor·phic
Pronunciation: "a-n&-'mor-fik
Function: adjective
Etymology: New Latin anamorphosis distorted optical image
Date: circa 1925
: producing, relating to, or marked by intentional distortion (as by unequal magnification along perpendicular axes) of an image <an anamorphic lens>

So there you have it. Anamorphic is an adjective and it can refer to more than just Anamorphic lens. No need to kick anyone in the nuts repeatedly.
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Old 05-25-03, 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by milo bloom
Supposedly some of WB's early DVDs were "fake anamorphic".They took a letterboxed transfer and digitally upconverted it to 16x9 resolution. The problem is the resolution really isn't there, so it doesn't look as good as it should on a 16x9 display and it looks even worse downconverted for a 4x3 display.
Aha! Whenever I've tried to tell anybody that WB's ROAD WARRIOR disc is identical to their laser transfer, somebody always points out that the DVD is anamorphic. To which I've never had a decent response...until now. Fake anamorphic...it makes sense.
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Old 05-25-03, 08:12 PM
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What Joe Molotov said.

Whatever you do, if someone asks you to explain the word "Anamorphic" to them....DO NOT tell them to look it up in the dictionary! It'll confuse them even more I would guess!

"Intentional distortion"!! Ewwwww!

"Yuck" was my initial reaction to looking up this word in the dictionary as well. (Who wants their DVDs "intentionally distorted"??)

It'd be nice to add a newer (circa 1997-1998) dictionary entry for "Anamorphic", explaining the term in a DVD context, with the additional remarks "compressed video image that adds resolution within the letterboxed image".

Last edited by davidvp; 05-25-03 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 05-25-03, 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by moocher
Wouldn't then all of the early DVDs that were just LD transfers converted to DVD but anamorphically encoded on the DVD fit the definition of "fake anamorphic"? They're anamorphic but taken from an original letterbox transfer.
Name some discs you think meet this criteria. A disc taken from the original laserdisc transfer would be presented on DVD in non-anamorphic letterbox. There are plenty of DVDs like that, especially in the early years of the format, but they were not anamorphically encoded.

Last edited by Josh Z; 05-25-03 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 05-25-03, 08:34 PM
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Josh I've heard it bandied about, but never definitively, that the BladeRunner disc is one such DVD. I don't have mine to check, as I sold it when I thought the SE was coming a while back. I just have the Criterion and DC LDs to hold me over. But I do recall the DVD not looking too hot, it could be one of these.

And yes I know what you're saying about a laserdisc transfer should only be non-anamorphic letterbox, but we're talking about the DVDs we're pretty sure were digitally jiggered with to appear anamorphic but really aren't.
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Old 05-25-03, 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by garmonbozia
lizard,

ahhh, thanks for the explanation.
yes

this is the most logical explanation thus far.

the principle seems to be by being anamorphic is to get the most resolution possible between the letter boxing from the actual video stream. the problem is attainability. if lizard's example is realistic, it's a scary proposition when considering this scheme is crossed with marketers. however, i have yet to notice this problem. however, i may be a less than credible source since i'm only using 16:9 enhanced on a 27' tv.

but, having said this and based on my opinion, since anamorphic anything is more geared towards enthusiasts than the "soccer mom rental types", the studios would eventually run into problems if they marketed anamorphic dvds when they were not utilizing full resoultion. there would definately be a backlash. if one or two films got through similar to lizard's example, so be it, but i could not see this becoming the norm. 80 - 90% of the typical dvd buying audience would most probably buy the nonanamorphic version of a film if there was no alternative in sight, period. so the logic chain in "fake anamorphic" dvds is flawed. however, i could be completely wrong about this. care to chime in ....

Will
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Old 05-26-03, 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by milo bloom
Josh I've heard it bandied about, but never definitively, that the BladeRunner disc is one such DVD. I don't have mine to check, as I sold it when I thought the SE was coming a while back. I just have the Criterion and DC LDs to hold me over. But I do recall the DVD not looking too hot, it could be one of these.
Blade Runner is not the same transfer as the laserdisc. It was a new anamorphic transfer done specifically for the DVD. It is sharper and has a darker black level than the laserdisc. It also has some pronounced gate-weave noticeable during the Warner Bros logo and the opening prologue text (the picture wobbles) that is not present on the laserdisc. (Their Batman DVD has the same problem.)

The DVD doesn't look so hot magnified on a large screen because it was an early DVD and the compression quality is flawed. But it was not a non-anamorphic transfer up-rezzed.
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Old 05-26-03, 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by Josh Z
Blade Runner is not the same transfer as the laserdisc. It was a new anamorphic transfer done specifically for the DVD. It is sharper and has a darker black level than the laserdisc. It also has some pronounced gate-weave noticeable during the Warner Bros logo and the opening prologue text (the picture wobbles) that is not present on the laserdisc. (Their Batman DVD has the same problem.)

The DVD doesn't look so hot magnified on a large screen because it was an early DVD and the compression quality is flawed. But it was not a non-anamorphic transfer up-rezzed.
Well, glad to be proven wrong about BR, but I would bet the farm some studio has done it at least once.
I don't think it's a current problem, but I'm sure it's happened in the past.
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